What's the difference between DID/DDNOS beyond the DSM

ZeldaZonk - Surely there is a difference between people who were abused in an ongoing way by the people they depend on for everything, while their most important psychological development is supposed to be happening, and someone brought up in a nurturing 'good enough' environment with relatively good mental health etc who then has a traumatic experience in their 20's for example.
To me that's just common sense! Just my 2c.

Without a doubt! That is well documented and known as the reason we have developed DDNOS/DID

Hey I know this thread is old but I found it really interesting...so I thought I would put in my own 2 cents...

tylas wrote:That is well documented and known as the reason we have developed DDNOS/DID

I wonder what sources you have for this? I have heard of cases of DID where the person developed it because of constant trauma in their childhood, that was not caused BY the parents directly, but not helped at all by the parents either. One blog I read was from a guy who was constantly bullied, but since his parents didn't know, he never received any help, and he developed DID. Another one was from a girl who said she was pretty sure she had DID, even though the trauma was in her 20s.

I was a victim of parental alienation in it's most severe form from the age of 1, which is now being considered a form of psychological abuse. Lost all contact with my Dad at age 10 cuz my mom brainwashed me and my sister into thinking he had been sexually abusive(which now I realize is NOT true) Before then, had very little contact with him, again because my mom seems to enjoy using her children as weapons against her ex-husbands. Was homeless several times growing up, moved about 20 times(no joke, and no, my mom was not in the military, sometimes I actually wonder if SHE has DID.) Lots of neglect, not necessarily because of my mom, but because of crap that happened that she could have handled better. Even though my mom is really loving sometimes, she has also disowned me 2 times, cut me off one time, always coming back saying how sorry she is...my T calls it emotional blackmail. Same deal with my sister.

So I'm just saying that I think it's actually very possible for DID or any dissociative disorder to develop at anytime, depending on the person and how they handle trauma. There is still so much research to be done, and everyone's brain is different. This disorder is serious and I think that limiting the cause to one thing can prove to be potentially harmful to those who would benefit from DID treatment, but did not necessarily suffer abuse from either parent.

P.S. I hope I don't sound like I'm bashing anyone's opinions or belittling anyone's experience ...I'm just learning right now so I felt the need to comment...

Most (all?) experts on trauma and dissociation in childhood agree that DID is caused not by trauma alone but by trauma plus neglect by the child's primary attachment figures. Personal stories by persons with DID confirm this. Neglect happens when a parent or other caregiver in some important way ignores, invalidates, betrays, denies, or abandons the child to suffer alone. Often the neglecting parent is not the abuser.

Comment away!! I don't always make all points clear, so please question whatever confuses you or does not make sense. Questions really help me learn things too and have made me take a 2nd look at many things!


What Una said... but what you said too = is all right.

A child has to lack someone to share with, someone to confide in, someone that can rescue them and keep them safe.

In E. Howells book she gives 3 different examples. One - a boy, was abused by others and then later abused by boys in the "Big Brother Program". The boy chose to take the abuse to protect his mother. He was afraid the Mother would kill the boys and end up in jail. So you can have a loving parent and still get his, yes, but most of the time the abuse is from caregivers.

At Una and my age, child abuse was common and not illegal. I was reading a brief of a book while in the mall waiting on my kids to shop and it said the first laws did not even start to be talked about until 1964.

Also, some brains adapt easier to DID/DDOS than other. The amount of abuse can vary. Someone who endured the most horrific abuse might not have DID or DDNOS. Someone with lesser abused might have DID and someone abused inbetween these 2 may have DDNOS.

References to most books lately have been E. Howells 2011 book on DID since that's what's on my mind. Finished it though and on to another one.

The girl with trauma from her 20's I have to question. Perhaps she had earlier trauma and it became obvious after the later trauma? The brain usually must be quite young to be able to dissociate so much, but anything is possible in my mind.

parental alienation - Of course this is abuse! My Mom did this and I suffer far more from her wounds than all the beatings, sexual abuse and lock ups my dad ever did. He did them in a loving way sometimes. She just had hate for me. We moved all over too. Parents did not want to get caught, is why I am sure. I hated moving in the middle of the year most.

Keep in mind that your parents did the best they could being who they were. Just as all of us here that are wounded have done.

tylas wrote:The girl with trauma from her 20's I have to question. Perhaps she had earlier trauma and it became obvious after the later trauma?

That was the situation for me when I entered therapy. I knew what happened to me at 15 and 16 was really bad, and I assumed the PSTD was from that. And then I found out about DID and that meant I had to look at earlier events. There were a lot of terrifying earlier events, although not sexual abuse . . . I thought.

That totally makes sense to me.

tylas wrote:ZeldaZonk - Surely there is a difference between people who were abused in an ongoing way by the people they depend on for everything, while their most important psychological development is supposed to be happening, and someone brought up in a nurturing 'good enough' environment with relatively good mental health etc who then has a traumatic experience in their 20's for example.
To me that's just common sense! Just my 2c.

Without a doubt! That is well documented and known as the reason we have developed DDNOS/DID

A little late to the game but: this ongoing developmental trauma is also cited as the proposed cause of C-PTSD. Judith Herman originally created the term C-PTSD in her book Trauma and Recovery. Her examples at the time were prisoners of war, anyone who is kidnapped and held against their will for an extended time, and children that grow up in severely abusive households. So it's separate from PTSD in that it was not caused by a single traumatic episode but many. Notice here that an adult can develop C-PTSD if their trauma is repeated (POW). Is the same true for DIDNOS/DID? Now why would a child develop C-PTSD and not DIDNOS/DID in their developmental trauma? I remember reading (can't remember the source) that a child that is exceptionally good at defending through numbing response develops C-PTSD and a child exceptionally able to (forgive me if I'm using the wrong wording here) leave their body is more likely to lean towards DIDNOD/DID.

I'm actually really grateful to have read this, while I can understand why it could cause others discomfort. I am always ME but have emotional parts that "take over.". Their emotional reactions are all separate from ME, they feel frozen in time, one seems to be very young, im not always aware that theyve emerged, and I seem to be aware of things when they come out though I feel driven by them and are more watching events than participating in making decisions. This articles description of C-PTSD and it's dissociated EPs is actually really validating.

Now I just wanna know the difference between C-PTSD and DIDNOS lol

Some authorities seem to roll DID and DID-like DDNOS in with Complex PTSD, and some roll C-PTSD in with PTSD. Others separate. It is the nature of any taxonomy that some users will be "lumpers" and others will be "splitters".

Where DID/DDNOS and C-PTSD differ is that with DID/DDNOS the trauma usually began earlier in life, and the dissociated ego states have been dissociated since early childhood.

Una+ wrote:Some authorities seem to roll DID and DID-like DDNOS in with Complex PTSD, and some roll C-PTSD in with PTSD. Others separate. It is the nature of any taxonomy that some users will be "lumpers" and others will be "splitters".

Where DID/DDNOS and C-PTSD differ is that with DID/DDNOS the trauma usually began earlier in life, and the dissociated ego states have been dissociated since early childhood.

Hi Una! That makes sense to me. Just a bit confusing since I was dx with PTSD ( I argued with my therapist that it was C-PTSD she sees it all as PTSD but honestly doesn't know much about dissociative disorders). My trauma occurred very very early(birth haha) and continued into adolescence. If by dissociated ego states you mean the EPs then yes mine were formed very early as well. Perhaps the difference between them is that CPTSD includes the classic single event PTSD symptoms ( flashbacks avoidance hypervigilence) and DDNOS does not include them without a dual diagnosis?

When alters start coming out, it is normal for someone with DID to have symptoms that appear to be late onset PTSD. I did. I was having panic attacks connected with an event when I was 16, 30 years ago. But my alters missed most of those 30 years so for them the event was recent and the symptoms were just ordinary PTSD.

Currently I have a formal diagnosis of DDNOS and PTSD. My history indicates DID, but my therapist wants to see it for herself before she diagnoses it. Fair enough.