What's the difference between DID/DDNOS beyond the DSM

ANP & EP
The ANP & EP are dissociated, as separate dissociative parts of the personality. Even though the ANP may often appear to have a larger scope and greater functionality, once there is an EP, the ANP can only be a part of the personality. It is not correct to say that the EP is dissociated from the ANP as if the ANP is whole and unaffected except for those intrusive troublemakers, the EP's

Apparently Normal Part - ANP Emotional Part - EP

Inner Antagonism: The Theory of the Structural Dissociation of the Personality

Primary Structural Dissociation (PSD)

PSD - Involves one EP and one ANP such as found in simple PTSD. The ANP needs to be detached and numb, characterized by partial or complete amnesia of the trauma, whereas the EP is usually limited in scope but is hypermnestic, re-experiencing the trauma.

Secondary Structural Dissociation. (SSD)

SSD - Include PTSD-Complex and DD-NOS. This is characterized by dividedness of 2 or more defensive subsystems. For example, there may be different EP's who are devoted to flight, fight, freeze, total submission and so on.

Tertiary Structural Dissociation (TSD)
This is DID. There ARE 2 or more ANP's who perform aspects of daily living, such as work in the workplace, child-rearing, and playing as well as 2 or more EP's.

It sounds slightly home-brew, not a synthesis of collective wisdom of the research community. Were sources given for those paragraphs?

Look at the link. That seems to be the original research of these 3. Ellert Nijenhuis, Onno van der Hart, & Kathy Steele - They wrote the book The Haunted Self

This is their summary of treatment of DID..

The treatment basically concerns resolution of the structural dissociation of the personality by exposing the dissociative parts of the personality, and their mental contents, to each other in carefully planned steps that promote integration and preclude re-dissociation. The theory predicts that overcoming tertiary dissociation in DID is less demanding than overcoming secondary dissociation. It also states that overcoming primary dissociation implies exposure to severe perceived threat, and thus requires the highest level of mental functioning.

Is this saying its easier to heal from DID than DD-NOS?

I have read that article. What is home-brew is the mapping between their levels of structural dissociation between and withing ANP and EP on the one hand, and DID/DDNOS/PTSD on the other hand.

Interesting.... It's presented in the book I am reading:
Understanding and Treating DID by E. Howell

In here 3rd chapter on Personality Organization in DID

Can you explain more about the issues....

I know I've posted this before but...

I've been reading Paul Dell and from a more simple, diagnostic viewpoint, (he says) the difference between DID & DDNOS is substantial contemporary amnesia - DID has it, DDNOS doesn't.
So would that contemporary amnesia occur because there are more than one ANPs?
I guess that's from the outside looking in rather than what Van Der Hart et al are discussing ie the actual inner structure of the host / parts.
I'm going to read this article again coz I can't remember what I thought of it.
I've always found Van der Hart to be really good though.

Best, Zel.

ZeldaZonk wrote:I know I've posted this before but...

I've been reading Paul Dell and from a more simple, diagnostic viewpoint, (he says) the difference between DID & DDNOS is substantial contemporary amnesia - DID has it, DDNOS doesn't.
So would that contemporary amnesia occur because there are more than one ANPs?
I guess that's from the outside looking in rather than what Van Der Hart et al are discussing ie the actual inner structure of the host / parts.
I'm going to read this article again coz I can't remember what I thought of it.
I've always found Van der Hart to be really good though.

Best, Zel.

Yes, that is what I have understood too, that the difference is that DID has Amnesia when switching occurs and there is time loss and no co-consciousness.

That is the same thing I wondered too! If the amnesia/time loss/lack of co-consciousness is because there is more than one ANP!

tylas wrote:That is the same thing I wondered too! If the amnesia/time loss/lack of co-consciousness is because there is more than one ANP!

Hm. I think that question can be restated as Does amnesia/lost time occur only when a dissociated ANP comes out? (meaning, an ANP other than the host). From my reading of the clinical literature, the answer appears to be No. Many people with DID lose time when an EP comes out, apparently. The alter is not identified as an EP but going by the alter's role, the alter is an EP.

MY head is loony. It's tried to absorb too much for one day. I will try again tomorrow.

I got my 2nd wind.

new post----------------

Una+ wrote:Hm. I think that question can be restated as Does amnesia/lost time occur only when a dissociated ANP comes out? (meaning, an ANP other than the host). From my reading of the clinical literature, the answer appears to be No. Many people with DID lose time when an EP comes out, apparently. The alter is not identified as an EP but going by the alter's role, the alter is an EP.

We both agree as to what you state about DID, but the question or statement was: In the DD-NOS patient there is no amnesia/time loss and this is due to there only being one ANP. On the other hand DID has 2 or more ANP and 2 or more EP and yes, the DID patient can loose time when either is out.


Agreed?

What I want to know is exactly what is the difference between DID like -DD-NOS and DID beyond what the T and patient might miss like loss of time.

The short answer is that DSM defines DID and DDNOS based on symptoms, not underlying causes. The difference between them is contained in the definitions. So all that matters is does the patient lose time.

The long answer is that it depends. I am formally diagnosed as having DDNOS. My therapist has not witnessed me losing time in the manner required to diagnose DID, and does not accept my self report of losing time. I expect the diagnosis of DDNOS will be temporary, and that I will be diagnosed with DID. I have more than one ANP. Then the question is Do people with DDNOS who never lose time ever have more than one ANP? I don't know the answer. My impression is that most people who are diagnosed with DDNOS due to not losing time are, like me, pending diagnosis with DID.