Intrusive Alters? -might get confusing sorry

This is Yvette. Leigh is too overwhelmed to be out here, so I'm going to post and hope she doesn't mind.

When we were in therapy today, Cassie (who is 26 going on 15, heh) was not allowing certain things our T was saying to get to Leigh. Whenever she (our T) would try to talk about something, Cassie would totally block Leigh's ability to recognize the words. After our T kept repeating herself, Cassie came out here and started screaming at our T. She (our T) figured out pretty fast what was going on and that Cassie is trying to keep Leigh from having solutions to problems she deals with. Mostly to do with her mother, these issues. Our T was trying to tell Leigh that we cannot expect Leigh's mother to change, so saying, "She should be the one to have to change" doesn't make things better. Well, Leigh never said that. Cassie did. Cassie got our T so wound tight that our T kind of snapped at us, but by this time Leigh was back out here and utterly confused about why she was getting snapped at. She began to cry and our T then realized that Leigh had no idea what had been going on.

To cut to the chase, we are all (well, us adults anyhow) supposed to have meetings with Cassie to try to explain things to her. And the issue is that Cassie would argue something, knowing she sounds stupid, as long as it doesn't mean she has to admit she's wrong. So instead of a meeting it will be a screaming match. Leigh cannot deal with that. I told our T what would happen and she said to let Cassie have a tantrum, not talk over her, and then when she's done then try to have a discussion. She does not seem to understand that there is no "done" for Cassie as long as she might have to back up and then give up her argument. Even though getting through to her would also mean we can make some kind of progress in therapy.

Do any of you have any experience with this type of behavior?

(As a side note, I apologize if this was confusing or long-winded. English is not my first language.)

Thank you!

Yvette

Sit her down, back hand across the face, give her a stern talking to. Least that's how we dealt with adults who wanted to act like children when I used to help at my favorite bar before I stopped going out like that.

-Frank

You have no idea the self-control it is taking to not do that. Or maybe you do.

-Leigh

Oh do we ever! There isn't a member in my system that doesn't follow a zero tolerance policy against stupid. It takes a lot of restraint to go through the day without smacking the piss out of at least one person. The only time we unleash hell is when its someone close. Its bad enough we have to deal with strangers being stupid, not about to let someone we know be stupid.

Especially if you have to live with/deal with them daily

PROPER SLAP WITH THE RIGHT HAND!

In all seriousness, sometimes a good slap in the face is what a person/alter needs to knock off the BS. It may not be "politically correct", but I don't believe in that wussy PC crap.

I would not try to explain things to Cassie, let alone snap her out of where she is. I agree with your T to let her have a tantrum if she needs to, and then you might try to hear what she is saying to Leigh and T. She might feel frustrated, and she she might be afraid for Leigh to go along with solutions that she believes won't work. Maybe she'll let you know why she thinks so.
I know this is hard to do but all of you may end up feeling a bit more peaceful.

The thing about Cassie, is that she is fixated on "should" and "shouldn't" despite the fact that those words won't get anybody anywhere. She believes my mom shouldn't treat us like crap. And while she's right, she doesn't accept that my mom won't change no matter how bad some of us might want her to or believe she "should". We need to change how we react to my mom, as opposed to walking away from her wounded and saying, "She shouldn't do that to us." Cassie will not accept this and, *sigh*, I don't know. Maybe she thinks that the "should/shouldn't" thinking is protecting me. It may be in a way, but it will never work and I might have to hurt more for a while until we learn to respond differently. Cassie doesn't like that.

-Leigh

Hi Leigh,

Can you hear that Cassie, in her own way, is right? Your mom shouldn't act the way she does? Can you just let her know that you hear that? She has a valid point! Although life may not work that way, she has a valid point. All you need to do is really hear that and understand that. In the hearing her, and maybe just spending some time with her, making room for and acknowledging her feelings, you may notice something shift, for her, or for you.It may melt a bit, get softer.

Although you may have to change your behavior towards your mom, she may be letting you know you should always remember your mom should not treat you (or anybody) like crap. It may take another while before she can understand mom does that anyway. She may want to know that you are there to understand and support her, so she doesn't have to give up that healthy belief.

Because she is right - from her point of view!

Yes. And I have acknowledged that several times since this all started. I agree with Cassie- it shouldn't happen. There is nothing in the world that would make it ok. I think where we split hairs on our views of this (aside from my needing to learn to react differently to Mommie Dearest) is that she believes that our T not saying "It shouldn't be this way, she should have to change" means our T thinks more along the lines of, "You're the ones with the problem, not your mother. You deserve this." I have cleared up for Cassie a bit about WHY our T doesn't want us to fixate on the "should/shouldn't" language and that our T absolutely does NOT believe we deserved it. And she even said as much at our last appointment. I think Cassie was just so pissed of by then that she wasn't willing to listen.

I do spend lots of time with Cassie, and anyone else who needs that. She has changed her behaviors a LOT since she got here in September 2006, and that was hard for her to do. She knows I see the changes and that I am grateful and proud of her. I guess, though, this whole mess feels like one step backward even though I do believe she has good intentions.

-Leigh

I recognize a lot in the behavior you describe in your first post, of what happened in the session. All parts/alters need to have trust in the therapy/therapist for it to progress. T snapping is not fun for anybody. You're letting T know what you think will happen, while you have a concern that T doesn't seem to understand there won't be any 'done' for Cassie, is hard too. Progress in the therapy comes when the safety grows again. I think that's important: lots of patience so that all feel supported by T and the therapy. So I would try to tell T about all of this.

POB: We all know this and are working toward this. Trust is not easy for many of us and our T recognises this and understands it.

I would like to say something to Cassie in hopes she will read this:
I realise you are afraid that if you are made to back off from doing your job that you will die. But nobody is asking you to back up for always─ just for therapy for a while. I do not think this means you are not allowed to be there with Leigh and listen. On the contrary, I believe you are wanted by both Leigh and Dr. Bailey to listen and give your thoughts and feelings. I know it is difficult for someone as brave as you are to feel exposed and voice your fears, but I believe that it will be a positive direction for all of us, yourself included. Leigh (and all of us) will have many times when we need for you to protect. Learning to react differently to her mum is important though, and that will protect us as well. It will protect the feelings and mental states of those who are affected (or is it "effected"? I have never known the difference in these words in English.) by her the most. I believe you can be a part of that by really learning to respond differently, and by helping Leigh and the others who deal with this woman learn to do so as well. I think that is more protection than where we are now, actually, if you think about it. Protection is not about denial or numbing oneself to their surroundings much of the time; it is about reacting in a way that prevents hurt and harm. We need to learn how to do this. And I do not believe you will die or even go away for a short time. If we died when our purpose(s) are not being put to use, I would not be sitting here typing this. I was here to keep Leigh together after she fell and then to help her find the determination and will to walk again when we were told we never would walk. But we are walking now, and even without our brace sometimes (which we were told would be impossible, so *pffft* to those who said that!), and I am still here. Last I checked I am still a living, thinking, breathing person. So, no, you will not die. I promise.

-Needra