My solution if it helps, ranking or system

I know which one is core by analysing my past so figuring out: who was created later in life in response to some event, and who existed before dissociation started.

All of us have come to an agreement that being core is better than trying to find life suitable for all of us; I as Toni want them to be my past, and they want to be my past.

Ok thank you. I struggle with remembering who I was before it started. I can say that I was around 6 years old when it started but as for who I was before that I can really say.

That's the thing. The current theories are that a person doesn't have a unified personality up until about the age of between 6 and 9. We've traced back and there's at least four of us from before the age of six. The thing is, because of trauma, we couldn't integrate properly and have been a system for as long as we can remember. There was no 'core'. In fact, most theories today discount the idea that every system has a 'core'. Our own theory, from having talked to a lot of systems up until now, is that the older the age at which the trauma started the more likelihood that there's a 'core', but the truth is, most systems won't have one.

Violette

@TheTriForce

In case my message failed to get through.

First, you missread Other Specified Dissociative Disorder as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. And lately I've been pushing myself a bit too far, so I can reach the end of my dissociation.

Why it is not just masking but dissociation I explained in the thread, and I think I know how far I can push without breaking myself, as I basically do speedy mental resolution all my life.

ViTheta wrote:That's the thing. The current theories are that a person doesn't have a unified personality up until about the age of between 6 and 9.

In fact, most theories today discount the idea that every system has a 'core'. Our own theory, from having talked to a lot of systems up until now, is that the older the age at which the trauma started the more likelihood that there's a 'core', but the truth is, most systems won't have one.

Violette

I agree completely that it depends on the system and their experience.... someone who has had extreme trauma from parents in very early infancy will probably have never had chance for a core to develop.... I understand that and why many with DID say they have no core.

However ....this is a completely different situation to... say ...a child where the process had started or was unable to complete properly due to learning disabilities or autism etc and other stuff going on (them using dissociation to escape bullying, cope with sensory overload which may have not been an issue until they had to go to school) then they may have started to develop something of a 'sense of self' before developing the social awareness (often at a much later age than NT kids) that they were different and feeling a need to 'mask' or being 'trained' to present as NT (situations such as Intensive ABA Therapy which we had to endure for years).

We know 'Bobby's trauma' is autism related... that is entirely down to their perception of the world and how terrifying they found unpredictable noises and having to cope with a class full of children and intrusive medical examinations and treatments (due to another condition we were born with) after living in a calm quiet home as the only child for much of their early life. ..'medical trauma' is listed as a cause of DID.

For us the 'intentional cruelty' of other people (mainly other kids) came a little later from bullying due to other kids realising we were different and weird...cos though we caught up learning to read and soon overtook them ..socially and emotionally we were still many years behind! ...And even as an older teen young adult we were very naive and inexperienced of 'the wider world' and things like 'people taking advantage'. (in an inappropriate way)..I wont give any detail but lets just say..it didn't help Bobby's already intense dislike of physical contact but the 'teen selves' were desperate to fit in and be accepted.

I guess that should have been an indication then that they were more than just a social mask but this was the 80's... we don't even remember being aware we had autism at the time, it was never talked about we were just told we had been very ill in our early years and just needed to work a bit harder to catch up!

I am not so sure we would fit the DID criteria but regardless we have definitely experienced dissociation on a daily basis for many years for most, if not all of our life. I think the confusion for us is that some of our selves are kind of addicted to the sensory feeling of being dissociated and 'lost in fantasy' probably due to the autism ...and because we have never been able to see things from any one elses viewpoint to know others don't experience it daily when alone ..... whereas for most people with DID (especially otherwise NT people) they view the dissociation itself as traumatic.

It has actually been proven by fMRI machines that autistic brains are wired differently to neurotypical to start with and thats without any other conditions 'in the mix'. Yet we've met other people that are 'only autistic' and still there feels to be something different for us...there's definitely something else 'in the mix', other than autism (and not inc physical disability).

Jay

This is the first time I found someone relatable. I have had an easy life compared to what TheTriForce is describing, yet even though I think it is just Sensory Processing Disorder, some experts saw Asperger in me. Whatever it is, I always were reasonably adapted socially, although had a bit naivety which to me is important aspect of me, so if people respond well to it and it is safe, I give in to my naivety. I sincerely hope people of this forum will find their solution, without a core if that's the way for them. I kind of started this thread because I subconsciously wanted help with finishing my process and finally accepting all other versions of me as my past thus begin true life as Toni.

TheTriForce wrote:I agree completely that it depends on the system and their experience.... someone who has had extreme trauma from parents in very early infancy will probably have never had chance for a core to develop.... I understand that and why many with DID say they have no core.

However ....this is a completely different situation to... say ...a child where the process had started or was unable to complete properly due to learning disabilities or autism etc and other stuff going on (them using dissociation to escape bullying, cope with sensory overload which may have not been an issue until they had to go to school) then they may have started to develop something of a 'sense of self' before developing the social awareness (often at a much later age than NT kids) that they were different and feeling a need to 'mask' or being 'trained' to present as NT (situations such as Intensive ABA Therapy which we had to endure for years).

Hi Jay,

We brought this up because AW10 kept mentioning core and writing as if every system functioned identically. We definitely don't have a core since we are pretty sure that there were between three and five alters as early as age 5. Our abuse began fairly early too. As we've pieced together with our sister, our mom was very likely also a system so there was a lot of erratic behavior from her, and then add in the medical trauma at birth (anesthetic wasn't used on infants until within the last couple decades), and then the molestation and add in the bullying. We never formed a core.

AW10,

When we started this journey a year and a half ago, we didn't know the depths of our trauma. Trying to force an end to the dissociation without any healing or working with your system can cause a lot more harm to you and your system. We understand that it really sucks to have to deal with the dissociation, but you have to heal and map out your system.

Violette

AW10 wrote: I kind of started this thread because I subconsciously wanted help with finishing my process and finally accepting all other versions of me as my past thus begin true life as Toni.

Something I found helped us.... we found a load of old photo's through childhood .....we looked through them and got each alter to identify a photo where they considered it was them fronting and stick it on a white board (with blue tack or magnetic things) just putting their name (not the bodies) under it....

Then we went through them all dating them from the photographs..(age of the body at the time) ...this gave us an idea of when each alter fronted ..then we could draw a timeline and put them in order according to the age of the body ..(who hosted first at the youngest age etc). Despite them all putting their own system names under the photo's ... it is clearly a set of photo's of the same physical body throughout childhood and adulthood.

This may help??? ... finally taking a selfie of your current self 'Toni'...put it on the board with the date (which should then be the latest date on the timeline ..ie current year).

If you're good with computers, have all your photo's on there already and dont have a whiteboard or a way to print off photo's...try something similar but as a powerpoint presentation (slideshow) or something??? ..(uploading photos to a photo printing service who then posts selected photo's to you would work too if you wanted to make a collage version).

If you can all see a visual representation of your life in front of you at the same time it may help??? especially if your others want and feel ready to integrate, but maybe they feel they need some kind of 'visual closure' to help with processing?

Jay

Yeah mapping out my system has helped me incredibly. It's actually made me feel more in control of things.

Thank you all for your feedback.

If mapping out means what we create mental map telling who is who and similarities between us, then we already did that. As for the way to bring closure, visually is not good option for us; since we all have access to the same heap of memories, better option for us is to tell who was fronting when each of crucial memories from the heap were being made.

I still feel like rushing things, but right now we for the first time try to figure out what would take for each one of us to feel at peace. Feeling at peace is crucial for our solution, as we share opinion that sensory disorder affecting us makes it better that we just conclude which one of us solo will be able to draw the most out of life: top rank as permanent front.