dreams without feeling asleep

I've heard a lot of different kind weird dream related things from people with dissociation.

We have that too, the thing you mentioned here. We are fully aware of surroundings, but if something needs our full attention, like that we need to say something, we realize we were actually just having a dream also. Dreams we have like that are not dreams with full storyline, they are just weird, more like hallucinations. It's not something you could tell about what was in it, because it doesn't make any sense. There was a man and he was partly in a pit, but then there was also these other holes, in the air and everywhere and blue color and a worm, and in the dream they are all linked together like a story, but when it stops, you realize it didn't make any sense.

We also used to have a lot of lucid dreams. Lately not so much, but in the past almost all dreams were them. Actually in the inner world it is Sami who has them, and it can be we had them when he was more active, when he was the most active part. I think it is not as good as real sleep, it's somewhere between, when your brain doesn't fully give in to just relax.

In lucid dreams I/Sami turned into a wolf a lot, and just ran around in forests.

(I'm just going to dump some cool dreaming-related concepts here in case you or someone else is interested).
Do you normally know that you are dreaming when you are? If so, you could be a lucid dreamer.

As for what it is called, several possibilities came to mind but I don't think they fit well.
- sleep paralysis (which is linked to still partially being asleep, and partially being awake brain-wise);
but especially:
- hypnagogic hallucinations (which is basically having hallucinations while drifting towards sleep) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia.

These are all about the state between sleeping and being awake.

What you say about not having restful sleep and not knowing the difference between whether you're dreaming or not - to me it sounds like it could be caused by something trauma-related such as hyperarousal. Like you have to be alert, even when you're sleeping.

Hope some of this is useful/interesting to you, or someone else.

I lucid dream a lot. I think all the dreams I can remember are lucid, idk. I'm usually able to control my reaction to things and usually act like myself in them, which is why today really stood our to me. Also, those lucid dreams feel a lot deeper than what i'm talking about here I guess. It's like i'm dreaming and I know it's a dream, but the dream is the only thing I can focus on and I am really a part of that dream. and with this it's like I know it's a dream, but I am just watching it happen sort of, which then makes me able to notice things outside of the dream and gives me the feeling of being awake I guess. I don't know it's all very confusing right now.

fireheart, that hyperarousal could be a reason I guess? yesterday was the first night back in my room at uni, and last week I felt really unsafe here. there were people working on the house all week, and we kept getting bothered by 2 homeless guys who really scared me. so idk maybe it was fear of people going into my room while I was sleeping and just over-all being unsafe, because I do feel that way since last Wednesday.

The way you describe it, it sounds like how I sleep when I feel hyperaroused. And when you describe the context of your environment, that would make sense... it doesn't sound like it would provide a lot of feelings of safety and familiarity.

I don't know if you're interested in things that could help. If not, don't read further.

If so:
- having a ritual before bed, like listening to the same sounds as you're falling asleep
- trying to figure out WHO feels unsafe and ask them what they need
- locking the door/making your environment feel more safe and protected

I've had sleeping problems all my life I think. I remember laying in bed awake as a child. As a teen I didn't even pretend, I was up all nights and slept during days. My family used to think I'm lazy, because I do nothing but sleep, but counting the hours, they all definitely slept more than I did. As an adult there was no one calling me lazy anymore, and I've always been nights awake. 9 pm is when we start to feel alive, and it had nothing to do with if we had slept or not. So if we wanted to sleep, it needed to be daytime.

Going in the bed or any sleep rituals made us anxious. Basically we were up, until we fell in sleep when sitting somewhere. Sometimes we could wake up there and move to the bed and continue sleeping, but sometimes going to the bed was like a can of cold water to our face: ZIPP! No chance of getting more sleep.

It all changed in January, because we got medication. It's mild sedatives, that affects thru entire day. First time in 40 years we have sleeping rituals now, and we don't get more anxious when doing them. I also have Lucas now who has been there taking care of these things with me. So now I can brush my teeth and do the normal things and even go to bed. Lucas likes to shower. So we shower before bed. We are almost like normal people.

We used to hate all the advises people who very clearly couldn't understand the deepness of the issue gave us. "Just stay up! You will surely fall in sleep next night! " No. It doesn't work like that if you get hyperaroused every evening. "You should never sleep during the day, because of your sleeping problems. If you just stay up, you will fall in sleep at right time!" NO! I was perkiest every evening at 9 pm regardless of anything I did or didn't do. So it was a choice to sleep sometimes at daytimes if I could fell in sleep without noticing it, or choice number two: stay awake until hospitalized.

Therefor I don't give the usual advises. They work if they do. Always listen to yourself and how you feel. If something makes you anxious, don't do it. Don't care what is normal, do what works. We have just started the therapy and don't know the real issues, so we still fool us sometimes. I can go to bed with a book. We never turn the lights off. It is like we were about to read. But we don't, at all. We close eyes and sleep with the book in the hand. The book is for the safety. It is there to prove we actually aren't going to sleep, and that's why we can fall in sleep. Lucas doesn't like reading tho, but he's OK with some cartoons, or he talks himself in to sleep. We imagine us in the inner world, and he speaks to someone who is with him in there, until he (and our body) sleeps.

Before Lucas and before medication, all rituals were a trigger, and relaxation music is a trigger to our 14 year old etc. We didn't manage to train our brain to relax when wanted, we trained them to get alarmed when anything tries to relax us against our will. Our learning processes were flawless, we just conditioned us to the exact wrong things. It's all about which is stronger, like in any learning process. When you have both punishment (anxiety) and reward (thing to relax you) there at the same time, stronger one will win and that is what you are going to learn.

As a teen and young adult I didn't sleep in the bed at all. When I wanted to sleep, I went down to floor, next to my bed with a blanket and pillows and slept there. It was physically not as comfortable, but it was psychologically possible, and that's what matters. That can be related with some part. I have those phases sometimes when I wanna hang out on floor, sit on floor next to the sofa, sleep on floor next to the bed.

Basically I'm just saying don't be scared to be creative if needed.

We don't remember our dreams (at least I think the others don't either) so we don't really relate to the original topic but we do to the not sleeping. And yes all the advice which is extensive we have ever been given about sleeping is for us utter bollocks and completely useless. The doctor won't prescribed us sleeping pills anymore because they don't help me sleep (I was hoping there were other types that might work) because if my mind is to active I will just stay awake. I mean seriously thanks for the not help. The only time I have ever found it easy to sleep is in the morning once the sun comes up and then I will sleep no problem.

I'm sorry if the advice I wrote down is stupid. I relate to your experiences, Floralie and NyxX. Or, well, I don't - but some parts do.

Sometimes the best way to allow us to sleep is to keep the lights on and state: "We are NOT going to sleep!"

My T told us to write fairy tales when we can't sleep. It does usually help.

Other places are good too. I tend to crawl under my desk.

But see, now I'm sort of giving advice again. I guess it's just that I know how #######5 it is to not-sleep/feel so unsafe and I've been working on it for so long that I just wish I could help others with it. But everyone is different, so maybe it doesn't work like that at all!

Nah your advice about ritual is fairly good as long as I remember it has to be what works for me and not standard advice that comes out of a box. Like drink I can't even remember the name of it tea time tea or something or exercise or have lavender room spray or don't use anything with a blue screen on a night. You know the kind of stuff that helps people relax when all that's wrong is they lead a busy life. And doesn't work when you view sleep as the enemy.

My current routine which is going OK is to read on my tablet for a bit once I'm in bed not anything triggering but stuff that isn't kiddy because I want to encourage someone more adult to be fronting because we sleep better. And if that doesn't work repeat endlessly "now is safe, here is safe.' Because I realised I don't sleep because night time is the time some of us feel most threatened.

-- Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 pm --

For helping any of us sleep I think it's about doing what makes you feel safe and advice is usually about how to relax. How can i relax when I don't feel safe! If writing fairytales or sleeping in an unconventional place does that for you that's the best idea ever. And sharing things that help you is good because I would have never thought of writing fairytales and I love myths and legends so it sounds cool. I will try to remember and try it sometime. But not today because I have a very busy day tomorrow and I don't want to mess with my routine because of it because it only works OK and messing with it usually ends up in it not working at all.

I relate to your sleeping struggles so much. I also have such a difficult time falling asleep. it's like first i'll be too awake to sleep and then i'll be too tired and my head gets really busy so I can't sleep then either, and i still haven't found that perfect middle ground. Sleeping pills also don't help me, which is so frustrating. they only get me to feel too tired to sleep much faster.

Also when i wake up in the morning i feel very sick. My eyes hurt really bad and i feel dizzy and have a very bad headache. ALso sometimes i have this chemical feeling in my head that i can't deal with and it won't go away unless i sleep some more. for waking up i also haven't found the perfect middle ground yet. I will either sleep too little and i will feel sick and have the chemical headache, or i'll sleep too much and be foggy and dissocaited for the next couple of days, and i don't know how to snap out of that. I honestly can't remember the last time i had a good night sleep, and it's so frustrating.

The best thing for us with the feeling nauseous when we wake up is to eat something which is really hard when we want to be sick so we usually go for something bland and or really easy to eat. But we have reflux so the morning nauseous might be connected to that.