Do you relate to these symptoms? Whether DID or DDNOS

Can you tell me if you relate? I’m hoping I can also show this post to my mom to help explain to her what I experience, especially in light of your enlightening and insightful comments.

1] Suppressed memories under 7yo. I’ve always claimed that I “came online” at 7 or gained consciousness then. This correlates with the time I moved way from my dad, who is the one I have all the suppressed memories with.

2] I was very different at times growing up. Earliest I remember, I nearly erased my dad from my memory until he would snatch me out of that reality and into his chaotic world. Next, I was this girl with a gaping, wounded heart who was constantly emotionally crippled by the pain of having a neglectful father. This period of my life could be characterized by desperately seeking a father in every older man I could. Then I decided enough, and became cut off to those emotions, and started looking outward to trying to fill the holes in others. Eventually I became obsessed and manic-like in moving towards a career of helping, and by college I believed I was a form of God sent to this earth to help and “reduce world suffering.” Then I was also angry, wanted to burn the world, wanted to die, and dreamed of violence.

3] Looking through my old diaries and old poems is creepy and unsettling because although I generally remember writing in the diary (or at least don’t NOT remember), it’s the emotions and perspective that seems so foreign. I forgot I was so many of those ways that I wrote about in [2] and the memories seem foggy and distant, and I am so disconnected emotionally that it almost seems like a completely different person who ever felt that way.

4] My memory is trash. I have a real difficulty recalling things on my own, and sometimes there are whole conversations that I have no recollection of. But no memory issues so bad that I feel like I lost hours or days. I also have terrible concentration and zone out a lot, so I blame my memory issues on that.

5] I dated the opposite sex for the first time—I thought I was pansexual by then, but I would bounce between pansexual and lesbian to where it really affected my relationship. Some days it felt really normal and naturally being with him, as I had feelings and desire to be affectionate. Other days, with no rhyme or reason, I would feel totally gay, would feel repulsed by non-platonic contact, and I didn’t have feelings towards him beyond friends. I faked A LOT. Sometimes it would take hours and other times it would take days to “get into the right headspace”.

6] In my current relationship, sometimes I am emotionally connected to my gf and want to be in a relationship with her, and don’t question it, but other days I feel so disconnected, like I’m “holding a spot” for someone else, and thus am tolerating the relationship with her. I have to pretend.

7] Random words and thoughts come to my head. I tend to repeat the words a few times and look it up

8] I can never take a personality test or psych eval without having to choose one personality to the exclusion of others that characterize me.

9] I feel happy on the outside, but sad or angry, or something else on the inside. It’s like a dual awareness. I’m aware enough to know the happiness is not a mask per se, but also aware enough to know that happy isn’t the only thing in there. I’m always in a state of being one way, but also knowing I carry around a lot of feelings inside that are there but I’m not personally connected to.

10] People who I let into my life that leave, I have this ability to disconnect so much from them and memory with them that when I try to reconnected with that part of myself, its almost as if it was a whole different person back then with that person.

11] I often feel like these feelings and thoughts are right behind me, or even breathing down my neck sometimes. And they don’t match how I think I feel at the moment; but I can like feel them, and I can decide whether to take them on and believe them as my own. Right now I literally don’t even remember first hand what this feels like, but I know I’ve talked about this several times before, so I’m going to relay the same information as if I have firsthand recollection of the times this has happened, which is frequently.

12] When I was younger, and much less now, I would feel distinctly masculine and distinctly feminine. I had to dress appropriately to avoid feeling extremely awkward, uncomfortable, disturbed, and out of place. Even my mannerism had to reflect how I felt or I would feel very negative, or like a kangaroo in a dress or something. Now, while I wear both men’s and women’s clothes, I rarely feel like I MUST dress one way or another, but I need access to both.

13] Sometimes I feel like I’m at the very front of my face, and there’s a vet cone around my neck preventing me from looking back and seeing “who’s” there or what feelings are there. Usually in these moments I feel slightly high, and my body moves quicker than I feel I’m telling it to. I move in ways and say things that I immediately try to control, but it’s too late…I don’t feel like I’m not in control of my body, but I feel like most of my effect is in reacting to what I do rather than making the decision.

14] I used to be able to write beautiful poetry until I lost the ability for about 5 years. Earlier this year I rediscovered the ability by “stepping aside” and letting other parts within my express themselves. I would try to express the same sentiments, but it would come off as ingenuine and removed. I learned to hand the pen to someone else and it could come out so beautifully.

Some of what you write we relate to. I think you should be look for a good T that is experienced or knowledgeable about DID and they should be able to help you make sense of what your experiencing.

The following link will help you find a T if there aren't any listed near you I advise contacting the closest and asking them to help.

http://www.isst-d.org/default.asp?contentID=18

1] Suppressed memories under 7yo. I’ve always claimed that I “came online” at 7 or gained consciousness then. This correlates with the time I moved way from my dad, who is the one I have all the suppressed memories with.

Before I found I had any trauma for that matter, I could not remember my childhood. So I had a few flashes of memory but nothing substantial. I cannot to this day see or imagine or remember myself as a child. My memory is still distorted until the age of adulthood, so around 17-18 years old. I have amnesia but I know alters have always been able to observe in the background. I've felt their presence since I was a teenager.

2] I was very different at times growing up. Earliest I remember, I nearly erased my dad from my memory until he would snatch me out of that reality and into his chaotic world. Next, I was this girl with a gaping, wounded heart who was constantly emotionally crippled by the pain of having a neglectful father. This period of my life could be characterized by desperately seeking a father in every older man I could. Then I decided enough, and became cut off to those emotions, and started looking outward to trying to fill the holes in others. Eventually I became obsessed and manic-like in moving towards a career of helping, and by college I believed I was a form of God sent to this earth to help and “reduce world suffering.” Then I was also angry, wanted to burn the world, wanted to die, and dreamed of violence.

I could not remember a lot of people that had known me once I moved away from the trauma. In my adulthood, and sometimes even now, I seek a male figure to take care of me and love me unconditionally like a parent. Sometimes I would look for unconditional love in all types of people, not just male figures. I suspect this is my 'developmental attachment' issues instead of it being DID.

3] Looking through my old diaries and old poems is creepy and unsettling because although I generally remember writing in the diary (or at least don’t NOT remember), it’s the emotions and perspective that seems so foreign. I forgot I was so many of those ways that I wrote about in [2] and the memories seem foggy and distant, and I am so disconnected emotionally that it almost seems like a completely different person who ever felt that way.

I've felt like that where I've found written material I do not relate to. I have emotional amnesia though so I can remember an event and have no feelings or not remember any feelings. Amnesia is common in DID but being emotionally disconnected could mean emotional numbness. i suffer from this and it feels like you have no connection or feeling towards anything or anyone.

4] My memory is trash. I have a real difficulty recalling things on my own, and sometimes there are whole conversations that I have no recollection of. But no memory issues so bad that I feel like I lost hours or days. I also have terrible concentration and zone out a lot, so I blame my memory issues on that.

I've suffered from memory issues but only relating to hurtful and traumatic material. When in school, I remember sitting in exams and zoning out. I would forget material and I would read questions wrong so make up my own questions instead of what was written. weird. They were explanatory reasons for this now though.

I dated the opposite sex for the first time—I thought I was pansexual by then, but I would bounce between pansexual and lesbian to where it really affected my relationship. Some days it felt really normal and naturally being with him, as I had feelings and desire to be affectionate. Other days, with no rhyme or reason, I would feel totally gay, would feel repulsed by non-platonic contact, and I didn’t have feelings towards him beyond friends. I faked A LOT. Sometimes it would take hours and other times it would take days to “get into the right headspace”.

I have unstable self-image where sometimes I feel like I want to date the same sex. At times, I feel like I don't know who I am and then my options are all open. Other times, the abuse reminds me I don't want to go anywhere near the opposite sex. Although I think about the dating, I've never been able to do the deed kind of thing. I think its more in the moment due to my BPD I think.

6] In my current relationship, sometimes I am emotionally connected to my gf and want to be in a relationship with her, and don’t question it, but other days I feel so disconnected, like I’m “holding a spot” for someone else, and thus am tolerating the relationship with her. I have to pretend.

I sometimes feel disconnected from things, life, people, and just going by life without any meaning like a ghost. In my experience emotional numbness.

I can never take a personality test or psych eval without having to choose one personality to the exclusion of others that characterize me.

I would suggest doing this test to get a better idea of your symptoms: https://www.hebpsy.net/files/ruZXkl5YGeKcvt6dBZpS.pdf

I feel happy on the outside, but sad or angry, or something else on the inside. It’s like a dual awareness. I’m aware enough to know the happiness is not a mask per se, but also aware enough to know that happy isn’t the only thing in there. I’m always in a state of being one way, but also knowing I carry around a lot of feelings inside that are there but I’m not personally connected to.

I used to (another host) feel like that where emotions would bubble up inside even though in the outside I was fine. I would catch feelings that I just did not know where they came from. I would like to add though that the hallmark of BPD are mood shifts like this. In BPD, I think you can have one ANP and multiple EPs which can present like this intrusively. With DID, I think the feelings feel a lot more distinct and separate.

People who I let into my life that leave, I have this ability to disconnect so much from them and memory with them that when I try to reconnected with that part of myself, its almost as if it was a whole different person back then with that person.

I have this problem where I am extremely sensitive to abandonment and fear of rejection. I can disconnect from people that hurt me or I perceive are about to hurt me. I basically avoid attachment in short words.

12] When I was younger, and much less now, I would feel distinctly masculine and distinctly feminine. I had to dress appropriately to avoid feeling extremely awkward, uncomfortable, disturbed, and out of place. Even my mannerism had to reflect how I felt or I would feel very negative, or like a kangaroo in a dress or something. Now, while I wear both men’s and women’s clothes, I rarely feel like I MUST dress one way or another, but I need access to both.

When I was a teenager I went through this phase of dressing in the opposite sex and behaving like it. I did not want to be me anymore and I wanted to be the opposite sex. That gave me a sense of relief for a while and then I went back to my dress sense and created my own fashion sense. I had an unstable sense of self however, I haven't felt like that since then. So for me it was short lived.

14] I used to be able to write beautiful poetry until I lost the ability for about 5 years. Earlier this year I rediscovered the ability by “stepping aside” and letting other parts within my express themselves. I would try to express the same sentiments, but it would come off as ingenuine and removed. I learned to hand the pen to someone else and it could come out so beautifully.

I used to write poetry as a teenager and then I stopped. I never got back to writing so I can't really offer my personal experience.


I think it will only drive you crazy if you try and diagnose yourself. I think seeing someone and talking about this would give you the answers you seek. However, I have been down this road before so I have written up some of my experiences if that helps. Anything specific, you can PM. Just remember everyone experiences symptoms differently so relying/quantifying on other testimonies will be unjust to you and your experiences.

I hope it helps

I relate to alot of those symptoms.

When i get really really overwhelmed by life events a couple of things can happen. One is I go into a completely childlike imaginative state - how I was as a child with fairies or pirates. This is dangerous because I have no concept of reality, it's like my conscience has checked out and my subconscious is running the show. The second possibility which is worse I that the what I call "crazy parts" takeover. They believe weird stuff like they're pregnant with the devil's child and the doctors be polite and say it was God I thought I was pregnant with. Those crazy parts are usually just making up stories and we all know they make up stories but under extreme circumstances when they're the only ones left so to speak they believe their stories and they're obsessed with the apocalypse on and off - although they seem to have accepted any kind of apocalypse is highly unlikely in our life time so they're making up stories about aliens at the moment, we tried to tell them it's basically star wars they're enjoying themselves.

Anyway I relate to basically all those symptoms including the poetry. I used to write poetry but I stopped after someone stole my writing. I had no care over it anyway, I would just throw it away but someone actually stealing it seemed to kill the enjoyment of it.

Claud00 wrote:In BPD, I think you can have one ANP and multiple EPs which can present like this intrusively. With DID, I think the feelings feel a lot more distinct and separate.

You mean with DDNOS, right, or technically, OSDD 1a? Where you can have one ANP and multiple EPs. Not BPD, where there aren't parts. Just trying to clarify. This stuff gets so confusing.

1) Yes, a lot of them
2) Not that I know of...people tell me that times I am/was very different but that was obviously the others fronting! Sometimes they reflect onto me but not so much, and I cant really remember my childhood so I wouldn't be a hundred percent sure
3) I've only recently started journalling, but sometimes when I write poems, I write them from another's perspective, when I can feel their pain, their joy, their wonder and ectera extremely
4) Ahh my memory is super bad too! A lot of us have a super bad memory
5) My sexuality is constantly jumping around
6) I guess that's getting confused with reality? I feel really distant from reality alot like Im just floating
7) Same
We want to personality tests for all of us! Like the 16 personalities? It seems fun
9) I don't know, I think everyone may experience that? I have bipolar disorder so Im really only used to extremities
10) Yeah, I find that my memory goes whoomp at times, and I just forget people completley
12) I don't really experience this as all the others identify as female but apprently thats common with DID and DDNOS
13) I often experience that for a moment or two when someone fronts

You mean with DDNOS, right, or technically, OSDD 1a? Where you can have one ANP and multiple EPs. Not BPD, where there aren't parts. Just trying to clarify. This stuff gets so confusing.

I know right but I mean BPD. I’ve been reading too much! Similarly to CPTSD, BPD is being categorised/recognised as secondary structural dissociation of the personality within the TSDP framework. At least, that’s what current literature is going with. BPD is more and more regarded as a childhood trauma disorder. And no you don’t have parts or separate self states in BPD. However, you have EPs - you don’t identity them as separate or distinct states though. And of course you only have 1 ANP.

Some sources, I’ll add the list of articles later

Source1:
A history of childhood trauma and ongoing dissociation are common in clients with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Symptoms that occur in clients who have Complex PTSD or dissociative disorders (OSDD or DID) have a significant overlap with those of BPD, such as self-harm, suicidality, hearing voices, alterations in sense of self and states of consciousness, amnesia, depersonalization, chronic dysregulation, relational destabilization, and phobic avoidance of traumatic experiences. While many approaches focus on symptom management in BPD, we will describe a practical trauma-informed approach that emphasizes the need to identify and work with the individual’s unintegrated inner structural organization as a means to address the root causes of symptoms.

Sources2:
Borderline personality disorder and dissociation are strongly related. DSM-IV-TR criteria of BPD, for instance, include isola- ted dissociative symptoms (APA, 1994). Two thirds of BPD may be diagnosed of a dissociative disorder (Korzekwa, Dell and Pain, 2009). Both diagnoses have been related with high rates of childhood trauma. The close relationship between trauma, dissociation and borderline features can be unders- tood from the perspective of the theory of structural dissocia- tion of the personality (Van der Hart, Nijenhuis & Steele, 2006/2008) which transcends the traditional approach of describing "comorbidity". In this article we will review the empirical data which support the relation between early traumatizing and attachment disruption situations, and both borderline and dissociative symptoms. Borderline personality disorder will be explained in terms of structural dissociation of the personality.

Source3:
The current review focuses on the significance of childhood experiences related to the caregiver-child relationship on the mental well-being of the child. Attachment security developed as a result of caregiver-child interaction and subsequent affect regulation strategies with mentalization serving as the mediating factor help in understanding the development of Borderline Personality fea- tures. The mentalization theory and theory of structural dissociation of personality (TSDP) are elaborated in reference to attachment security and affect regulation in borderline personality features.

Source4:
In [18] developed a theory linking knowledge of psychotraumatology and neurobiology to classical theories on dissociation. Their model was called Theory of Structural Dissociation of the Personality (TSDP). This theory provides a useful theoretical framework for understanding BPD [19] and will be described in this article. Aside from consistent clinical evidence, studies are emerging that support the basic principles of the Theory of Structural Dissociation (e.g., [20, 21]; see [22], for a brief review).

TSDP provides a rich conceptualization of post-traumatic clinical pictures. The word dissociation is used to describe a mechanism involved in a fundamental division within the personality, which the authors believe is at the basis of all post-traumatic disorders. Post-traumatic clinical issues are distributed within a psychopathological spectrum ranging from acute trauma and PTSD on one end, to dissociative identity disorder on the other end, the most severe post-traumatic clinical profiles. In the middle of the spectrum we find borderline personality disorder.

Inspired by Allport [23] and Janet [24], Van der Hart et al. [6] define personality as the dynamic organization of those biopsychosocial systems within the individual that determine his or her characteristic mental and behavioral actions. Evolutionary prepared psychobiological action systems play a major role [6, 25, 26] in TSDP. One major set of action systems is oriented toward defense [27], escaping from and avoiding physical and associated psychological threat, and includes subsystems such as flight, freeze, fight, and total submission [28]. Other action systems are related to functions of daily life [26] and involve approaching attractive stimuli, energy regulation, attachment and care-taking, exploration, social engagement, play, and sexuality/reproduction [25]

......

According to TSDP, the structural dissociation of the personality will be more complex the greater the intensity, frequency, and duration of the traumatization and the earlier it started in life. BPD is usually related to severe and early traumatization and presents high levels of personality fragmentation, which is categorized in TSDP as secondary or tertiary structural dissociation [19].

Disorganized/disoriented attachment style [31, 32, 33], characteristic of dissociative disorders and a subgroup of borderline patients, can be understood from TSDP as an extreme alternation or competition between relational approach and defense against relational threat. Preoccupied and dismissing subtypes of insecure attachment can also be associated with BPD. These insecure attachment subtypes may also generate an alternation among non-integrated aspects of the personality, but in these cases, parts of the personality are generally less developed and structured than in disorganized attachment.

Claud00 wrote:

You mean with DDNOS, right, or technically, OSDD 1a? Where you can have one ANP and multiple EPs. Not BPD, where there aren't parts. Just trying to clarify. This stuff gets so confusing.

I know right but I mean BPD. I’ve been reading too much! Similarly to CPTSD, BPD is being categorised/recognised as secondary structural dissociation of the personality within the TSDP framework. At least, that’s what current literature is going with. BPD is more and more regarded as a childhood trauma disorder. And no you don’t have parts or separate self states in BPD. However, you have EPs - you don’t identity them as separate or distinct states though. And of course you only have 1 ANP.

Okay, but once one starts saying that people who have been diagnosed with BPD actually have a trauma disorder, then the label is being kept only because it's a less drastic and more gentle lead in to the idea that borderline personality disorder as previously conceived actually doesn't exist. It's no more a "personality disorder" than multiple personality disorder was. It's a gradual way of introducing people who have worked with BPD to this new way of looking at it, when, in reality, the structural dissociation folks are saying "we've been looking at this ALL WRONG for all these years and misdiagnosing people with symptoms of early childhood trauma as just having a very difficult and unstable temperament that needs to be "managed."

I have a background in mental health, and "borderline" has often been thrown around as a pejorative term. The view of it as a personality disorder that makes people "difficult" will be hard to change. Perhaps there will be a redefinition and renaming of that constellation of symptoms in the future (hopefully subsuming it under PTSD or dissociative disorder) and completely eliminating the term borderline (the reason for the name doesn't even apply to the current definition of the disorder--it's from a mistaken view that those symptoms fell between "neurosis" and "psychosis"--on the "borderline" between them). So I would heartily vote to scrap the whole concept.

Okay, but once one starts saying that people who have been diagnosed with BPD actually have a trauma disorder, then the label is being kept only because it's a less drastic and more gentle lead in to the idea that borderline personality disorder as previously conceived actually doesn't exist. It's no more a "personality disorder" than multiple personality disorder was. It's a gradual way of introducing people who have worked with BPD to this new way of looking at it, when, in reality, the structural dissociation folks are saying "we've been looking at this ALL WRONG for all these years and misdiagnosing people with symptoms of early childhood trauma as just having a very difficult and unstable temperament that needs to be "managed."

[In my opinion]

I think that’s a drastic way of looking at things. BPD is widely recognised and it’s been thoroughly researched that people who have BPD have suffered childhood trauma. I think framing BPD in the context of Structural Dissociation does not mean that BPD is being ignored or pushed to the side. Instead, people’s synptoms like myself as I’ve been diagnosed, are being understood in the context in which the disorder occurred in the first place, trauma, which led to for example disorganised attachment. It doesn’t mean that as a personality disorder is shouldn’t or wouldn’t be taken seriously. If anything, BPD is seriously debilitating with high suicidal rates and people like myself who experience this know it stems from trauma. Whenever I attended hospital due to suicidal attempts, I was always treated and mentally assessed almost immediately due to the prevalence of successful attempts. Where I live, it’s taken very very seriously. So because BPD is a lifelong condition that you cannot be cured of, whether with therapy or medication, it needs to be managed on a daily basis, hence DBT like I’ve done.

I have a background in mental health, and "borderline" has often been thrown around as a pejorative term. The view of it as a personality disorder that makes people "difficult" will be hard to change. Perhaps there will be a redefinition and renaming of that constellation of symptoms in the future (hopefully subsuming it under PTSD or dissociative disorder) and completely eliminating the term borderline (the reason for the name doesn't even apply to the current definition of the disorder--it's from a mistaken view that those symptoms fell between "neurosis" and "psychosis"--on the "borderline" between them). So I would heartily vote to scrap the whole concept.

I appreciate your insight and I agree, I really think the UK term of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder is a better fit and describes (to an extent) people’s experiences. I don’t think we are difficult, just misunderstood From the reading ive done, I think it will remain a personality disorder but hey! That’s just me