Are these voices?

NyxX wrote:We all experience a compulsion not to tell and I mean tell anything with emotional significance and sometimes things that are just normal things (well maybe just normal for us.)

Try thinking back at the thoughts that's what we do. So if they tell you not to do things ask why. I'll give you an example of a conversation we had a few weeks ago because I remember it fairly well.

Pretty flowers (looking at some wild forget me nots)
Flower crown
We are not making a flower crown out of them
Flower crown
The dogs have peed on those flowers
Flower crown (feels sulky now)
Your not meant to pick wild flowers anyway
Why?
Because the bee's are endangered and we need them to pollinate flowers and crops to eat
(Feelings of hurt)
Maybe we could order a flower crown online for you when we get home.
FLOWER CROWN

And as 3 of the 5 other people in my head I talk to are kids that is often how conversations go. I don't really hear anything just feel thoughts and emotions and knowledge that isn't mine. Sometimes I will hear sounds but they are so faint and indistinct that I can't understand them.

Everyone's system is different so it might not be the same for you.

I giggled at this, because it's like communicating with Lilly sometimes.

Kitten

It is difficult to get used to the voices. So far two of mine are either semi or regularly speaking to me at times… none of them are "daily" or "several times a day" yet (I'd LOVE that though, as long as they didn't drive me nuts), but even this little bit of commenting here and there is difficult.

Prior to knowing I was dissociative, I thought it was random stray thoughts- something unusual and to feel almost ashamed of b/c of how bizarre they were at times (like seeing a girl and thinking "that's a cute skirt, I'd love to wear that with…" instead of thinking how cute or hot she was – As a guy that sort of girlish thought was jarring and scary).

So I sympathize with the confusion over "are these voices or thoughts"… some times I still wonder when I hear one, especially if it's a first or rare comment from one that doesn't talk often. The best way to know for sure if it's a voice or a thought, at least in my experience, has been to think about what was said and see if there's a "sound" to it in my mind (if it sounds like me, or if it sounds like another person – similar to how you read chat text from a friend and you picture their voice saying what they're typing) and what it is that was said. If the thought is in character for a particular other, there's a decent chance it's from them. This isn't always easy and these aren't always a sure thing kind of test, but it's a start- and once in a while asking "who was that?" or "what do you mean?" has helped too- once in a while I get a reply or clarification which helps me know it's NOT a thought and something one of them are saying to me.

For me it's DID related. We learnt recently that the knowledge comes from backup as the name implies she stores knowledge and information we might later have a use for but not the memories themselves.

So say I'm out with Ozalces and bump into someone I'll not remember who they are or how I met them but I'll be able to tell you there kids ages or what hobbies they have or sports they like and the team they support. I'll carry on a perfect conversion with them and when they leave and Ozalces asks me who they are because I failed to introduce them I'll answer "not a clue probably saw them walking the dogs" (because I usually avoid people but not puppies lol.)

So for me it's normal but I'll ask Ozalces what it's like forgetting things when we get home. Have you looked at the DES-II and the MID (multidimensional inventory of dissociation)? You can score the DES yourself but not the MID but the scoring isn't why I ask. Some of the questions about dissociative experiences are surprising and it can challenge the way you think about what is normal for you. Some of the MID questions are about healthy dissociation others about maladaptive dissociation.

It was Nixie asking I remember it so well because it was the first time she asked for something. We didn't end up getting a flower crown but got excessively sparkly hair clips instead so she could wear them even if we go out because the only flower crowns we could find were way over the top.

i had to fill in the DES-II for my intake for my new t (i think i had a score of 67) and i did look over the questions of the MID briefly. i don't remember most of it, but there was one question that really stood out to me. it was about not knowing whether something is a dream or not, and it gave me very strong flashback feelings and images of when i was about 5 years old, because apparently i used to struggle with that a lot. it got to the point where i was scared to talk about things that happened, because i had no idea if i was making everything up or if it was real or not and i was afraid of people not believing me.

i always kind of knew that that had happened, but i always thought it was just a fantasy thing, but with everything else that's going on i don't believe that anymore. also, when i was about 5 i apparently went through this big change of being extremely outgoing an happy to being quiet and afraid all the time, and that fits so well with the memories that question brought back. so i now kind of know that I've always kind of had this and not since i was 16, which is what i thought before that.

i will look over the MID again to see if there is anything else that makes me think of more things, but this discovery thing was enough for last time i guess.

and the thing that you say about the information i kind of recognize, but in two ways i guess. when i have weird memories of things it's either that i suddenly have all the information, but cannot remember where i got it from. or i vaguely know the situation but have no idea what the information is that i was supposed to get from it. (so for example i know i was in my brother's room, but i have no idea what i did there. or i know i saw a friend toady, but i have no idea what we did or what we talked about)

tried the journal thing, but i don't really know how to start with that because it feels really stupid. i don't have any real proof that i actually have alters or anything, so writing to myself seems a bit weird. i do leave notes sometimes asking people to write me back, but nothing ever comes from that.

I encourage you wholeheartedly to write to yourself. And if you feel the urge to respond to yourself, do so! There are all kinds of splits, all kinds of ways for parts to interact. There are many levels of dissociation. Just try it, and stick to it for a bit, and see where it takes you. It has played an important role in my life. Also, don’t be afraid to talk to those voices, even if you have to get loud. If you’re in a safe place don’t be afraid to talk out loud, but mostly I mean in your head. They might respond, or they may not... but regardless, if some part of you (whether it’s a wholly separate part, or just your subconscious) is there, and you may as well send it encouragement, love, or whatever else you need.

Years ago (over 20 years ago) we used journaling in the beginning of our therapy. It was the best way to communicate without too much noise (there were a lot of us and everyone wanted to talkover each other). Eventually we phased out of that, and then later a whole new group of alters came up, they were different from us, almost their own little subsystem. Anyway, it started as you describe. Many of us could hear them, but we couldn’t see or interact. So several of us started writing to them. I wish I still had those journals to show you. I think the first entry was literally “is anyone there? Can you see this?” And so on. After a couple of weeks we started reading the notes to them, since they didn’t seem to come out. It was literally like standing in front of a giant black glass wall and hollering over the top at them (inside my head). We all started to feel a little crazy, but the therapist encouraged us. Eventually one of them wrote back. For 2 years we communicates with those people only through writing. It wasn’t fluid. It was a note here, and a response sometimes weeks later. Sometimes they didn’t want to respond and would draw a line in response, which I took as a “I’m here but not gonna discuss this” sort of message.

Now, 20 years later our system is in a whole new phase of things, and for a couple of years it’s felt like everything was getting worse. I finally pulled out a journal the other day and started writing. Even though we could easily talk to each other normally, someone chose to write back to me, saying something hard to say. Here we go again... maybe like before it will help.

NyxX wrote:For me it's DID related. We learnt recently that the knowledge comes from backup as the name implies she stores knowledge and information we might later have a use for but not the memories themselves.

NyxX has asked me to post about memory from a non DID, so here goes

I find that the information I remember is largely tied to my interests and how that information relates to it, for other things if I remember it has more to do with how much attention I was paying at the time of the event.
As such I have on several occasions not remember something until someone was telling me about it, at which point I remember being told and the information that I had forgotten

Ozalces

I really started writing today, and I tried to do it with as little judgement as I could and just write down everything even when it feels a bit silly, and I guess it kind of works. It really helps to get a clear overview of what goes on in my head and my opinions about everything so that's really nice. usually when I write I skip over my thoughts and feelings because it feels like too much effort and I just write the main things that went on that day or the main things i'm struggling with, so this is a bit different.

my goal for this week is choosing what i want to major in at uni (i'm going to my second year so i have to chose what i want to do for the next 2 years), and i've put that off for the past 6 months, because i don't feel good making a dicision about the rest of my life, when i don't know if i'm alone in my body or not. so i started to do the writing thing, from the point of view that i have DID and just trying to include everyone. i wrote down that we have to make a desicion about what we want to do next year and that i would like and apreciate it if they helped me make a decision. so i started with writing down the two majors i'm doubting between and then for writing down per subject of those majors what they were about and how ifelt about it. and i found that when i write down everything i want to write down i start to get into this argument with myself.

When i argued with myself my preferenced way of writing changes a bit, but i don't know if i do that on purpose or if it is something. my normal handwriting is a bit small and i press my pen very lightly on the paper, but when i react to myself i suddenly find it easier to write a bit bigger and press very hard on my pen. it's kind of normal for me to change my handwriting a bit, but it always depends on my mood i guess. so when i'm making a summery i sometimes switch to writing with very bubly letters for a paragraph and then to cursive for the next, and then on the next page i will be writing in my usual hadwriting again. however, this argument handwriting was a first for me, since i usally hate writing big and dark.

idk what my point is with this part, but i guess the writing is really helping me connect with all of my thoughts, and i don't really see it as trying to prove i have alters or anything, because i don't think i can make progress on my own and i really need a good t to help me with that. i feel like i'm too far in denial to figure anything out on my own. so for now i guess i'm just observing and looking whether i see signs and trying to connect with my thoughts, but not trying to look for anything i can label as an alter.

also, thank you NyxX and Ozalces for the reaction about the memory thing. I kind of relate with what Ozalces said, but i feel like there is a difference for me between not really remembering because it doesn't interest me that much, or not remembering because it's really just gone, eventhough i believed the information was important when i first heard it.

-----------------------edit-------------------------------------
I just realize the bigger argument handwriting is the handwriting I used to have a couple years ago, but only during history class. I used to call it my history handwriting, because it was so weird and specific

I think I did something stupid. I was writing down everything that popped up in my head and for a very long time and I guess I got a bit too comfortable and I started to write how it was al very weird and how I felt like I was faking it or making it up. which I regretted the moment I finished that sentence, but I couldn't really take it back. then I continued to write, but the random thoughts and handwriting switches just disappeared, for about 2 whole pages. then suddenly I had this impulse thought that I wrote down in the dark handwriting that said that me not believing in this thing made him (idk I strongly feel this handwriting belongs to a male thought thing) feel very sad and he said that the whole situation was hard enough for him without being invalidated by me. and then after that the thoughts kind of disappeared again, and I got this very bad headache, that I can't get rid of.

also after that I felt like I needed to talk to my friend about this whole situation, because it al just feels super bizar to me. so I wrote down if it was okay for me to talk to my friend about everything that's been happening today. and as soon as I wrote that question down I felt very sick to my stomach and my headache got a bit worse for a couple of seconds. and I got just this over all feeling of not being safe.

now i'm trying to get the random thoughts back again so that I'm able to write again, but I don't really know how to. I guess I should just give it some time and try again tomorrow? Also, it's very hard not to feel like i'm making this whole thing up, but I don't know how I can fake the physical pains that come from the thoughts being hurt.

It wasn't stupid it was your honest feelings. It's likely that he already felt your doubt. Try writing to him specifically. Something like dear person with the dark handwriting I didn't mean to invalidate you I feel this way because.... I'd like to get to know you better. But use your own words. If they feel hurt by what you have already written it might take a while to get a response.

NyxX wrote:Try writing to him specifically. Something like dear person with the dark handwriting I didn't mean to invalidate you I feel this way because.... I'd like to get to know you better. But use your own words. If they feel hurt by what you have already written it might take a while to get a response.

I tried to do this, but it didn't really work. after a while I started to hear very soft yes/no responses, but he was too far away to actually hear the rest. so the only thing I know about him right now is that he does not speak English and that that's why I had never heard from him before (English is my second language, but my study is in English and most of my friends speak English, so I usually keep my brain in English when I write to myself, except for this time..). and also after asking a couple of times and him getting anoyed with me, i got permission to talk about this with my friend if a want to, and after that he left. so maybe i'll do that if i feel comfortable, but idk yet

after i took a little break from writing, i started to write some more because i'm still dealing with my choice for uni and i wanted to be sure how i felt about it. and as i was doing that and trying to get input from the random thoughts inside my head, i had this random thought saying "penis" (but in my native language). so i was very confused and decided to ask who it was, so after i wrote that down, i heard this little girl giggle in my head. i tried to write to her and make her write back, but she was too far away to hear what she was sending to me. i could hear her saying things in a voice that is extremely different from my own thought (the other thoughts/voices sound the same as mine), which seems very weird to me, but also kind of make this more real. also hearing her be that happy kind of makes me happy and gives me a feeling of everything is/will be okay.

the little girl thing makes this enough strange new things for today, so i guess that's it for writing today. i feel like everything is happening really fast today and i don't know how i feelo about it yet. i mean i knew about the random thoughts probably having two different sources. and i knew i talked to myself a lot and that sometimes the thoughts don't show up and sometimes they do. but to have a bit of confirmation and the handwriting and headache thing, is just a lot. also i had no idea about the little girl. i had suspicions, but i never actually heard her.