Discovering paterns. TW. Process, MC/RA

I agree, no group could ever be trusted. Really, I just want acceptance, the freedom to be truly me, whoever that is. Because I feel like a façade. A flimsy version of what a person should be. I'm interested in your statements re DDNOS/DID. You make it sound as if no one in a DDNOS system has the freedom to be a real person with a real life. Essentially we are trapped without hope. That could just be my perception of things at this moment in time.

Oh my, we did not mean it like that, I'm sorry! What we mean is; the abusers who know how to create parts, aim at that; parts with no free will and without the full force amnesia DID-ers do have, so surroundings won't notice (although our surrounding never ever noticed the DID as well!) the system.

Those parts aren't nearly as 'developped' as ANP's+, because they only front when called for (cues, and that's entirely different from triggers). And a system who has those parts, I think always also has several authentic parts.

The good news is; we can change that, Tortoiseshell; from the minute you become aware, those parts become YOURS. And you exist! Here you are writing this down! Thinking about your system; taking back control.

You're not a facade; you're doing all you can and you've always done that.

Warm regards!

Efragment wrote:We respectfully disagree with science on this one. In our opinion, they're starting to realise how (emotional) neglect and psychological damage prevents the victim from processing the 'true splitting' trauma's. And ofcourse parents or other caretakers who torture their child, also always neglect and abuse them emotionally.

If (emotional) neglect and psychological abuse would 'do the trick', every child of addicts, severe borderliners and other cluster b disorders, parents with attachmentdisorders, etc, would have DID, which is not the case. At all.

Dissociative disorders maybe, yes, but not this whole system of parts with their own personalities and such.

DID is caused by horror, torture, sadists.

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here. There are quite a number of people on this forum, myself included, who didn't have "severe" physical or sexual abuse and yet have fully formed parts with their own personalities/beliefs/feelings, etc, whether or not they have significant amnesia. It is definitely the case that emotional neglect and/or abuse can cause DID/DDNOS.

It is clearly traumatic enough to disrupt integration for an infant/toddler to suffer ongoing emotional neglect/abuse and to have a disorganized attachment to their primary caregiver. Especially if there are no supportive and nurturing relationships available to the child to counteract that. It's this disruption to the normal development of integration that leads to dissociation--not a process of "splitting" something that has already formed. So there is really no such thing as a "true splitting trauma."

Current estimates for DID are 1-3%. That's 1-3 people per 100. So, yes, emotional neglect and psychological abuse (which often predispose a child to be further abused and bullied throughout their childhood), can "do the trick."

I'm sure that you didn't mean to invalidate the experience of many people on this forum, but to say that DID is caused by "horror, torture, sadists" is to perpetuate a myth that has prevented many people from believing that they really have DID, because nothing "bad enough" happened to them.

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I'm sure that you didn't mean to invalidate the experience of many people on this forum

Correct. It's an opinion.

Ok. But perhaps you can understand that to hold the opinion that DID is only caused by "horror, torture, sadists" while interacting with people on here who have DID and did NOT experience prolonged physical torture or sexual abuse DOES feel invalidating. Essentially we are saying we have DID and you are saying that in your opinion we don't. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Just wanted to say you can't put all for example addict parents in one group thinking if parent's addiction could cause DID/OSDD, it should be the case with all the children with addict parents. There is no one group like that of anything, it's all different cases.

It is like saying if hitting a child can cause DID, then all the children who have been physically punished ever, should have DID. No, there are severe cases and less severe cases in everything.

Human being is a social species, being left alone or being humiliated is a trauma as any other.

We've been tortured, but I still feel abandonment is our worst trauma. The fact our mom let him to do that to us, is bigger trauma than the fact it happened, because he is just some sickheaded s**th**e, I don't care what he thinks of me, there were things more important. Most traumatizing is always the fact we weren't worth of defensing us.

That's why we cope with the ways that have worked to make us worth something.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's not caring. There is a deep wisdom in that thought. You can love and hate the very same person, but you cannot love and not care about someone at the same time. (Well, with DID you can, but then it's not actually you.)

Dude, 15

You are misunderstanding us and we're not 'trying to imply' anything; we don't do passive aggressive, this opinion is very clear.

we're not saying that neglect/psychological abuse is not bad. It's horrible, it destroys perceptions of humanity, it leaves us with attachmentissues, and ALL of us have been there.

Would we all be on this website/in therapy if we'd know about all of our trauma's? DID is DENIAL, Gang.

We won't express opinions about this in other topics than this one anymore, we copied it here for ER12 to add stuff and we'll hold it here. This way we won't accidentally trigger you.

And you're ofcourse welcome to share your thoughts. We're not attacking you with this opinion, not trying to invalidate your feelings and experience, at all. We feel very sorry for all parts in all our systems and we totally relate to your feelings about the severity of neglect and psychological abuse. It's not about comparing, competition in 'what worse'. It's about the, in our opinion different impacts in different parts of our identity forming. No more, no less, but ER12 already explained that.

ps We stand corrected; it wasn't splitting up, it was 'never integrating' and in some cases splitting further while already being 'loose ends'.

PlanetIcarus wrote:Just wanted to say you can't put all for example addict parents in one group thinking if parent's addiction could cause DID/OSDD, it should be the case with all the children with addict parents. There is no one group like that of anything, it's all different cases.

Hi Dude, yes, generalising will always bring up this discussion, and rightly so. We think it's sometimes effective to use 'dry examples' in universal subjects, but we totally agree with you that every individual case is different.

PlanetIcarus wrote:It is like saying if hitting a child can cause DID, then all the children who have been physically punished ever, should have DID. No, there are severe cases and less severe cases in everything.

Human being is a social species, being left alone or being humiliated is a trauma as any other.

We've been tortured, but I still feel abandonment is our worst trauma. The fact our mom let him to do that to us, is bigger trauma than the fact it happened, because he is just some sickheaded s**th**e, I don't care what he thinks of me, there were things more important. Most traumatizing is always the fact we weren't worth of defensing us.

That's why we cope with the ways that have worked to make us worth something.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's not caring. There is a deep wisdom in that thought. You can love and hate the very same person, but you cannot love and not care about someone at the same time. (Well, with DID you can, but then it's not actually you.)

Dude, 15

We think that indeed is a wise thought. And we also think that we all are able to see and sometimes feel the nightmare abandonment is to children/was to us because it's a different kínd of trauma. Not less, not worse, but different. Probably even more confusing because 'not active abuse'.

Efragment wrote:We think that indeed is a wise thought. And we also think that we all are able to see and sometimes feel the nightmare abandonment is to children/was to us because it's a different kínd of trauma. Not less, not worse, but different. Probably even more confusing because 'not active abuse'.

Right. And emotional abandonment when the parent is still present is even more insidious and confusing. And it is a trauma capable of causing DID.

Out of respect for maybe triggered people (which ofcourse was not our intention), we announced we were not going to respond in the other topic anymore. You lashing out there, knowing we 'can't' respond, and come running here to lash out at something different feels wrong to us. We understand you are triggered and this is maybe protector speaking, but this truelly feels wrong so we're not open for further discussion with you at this point.