Stop alters that beats up the body?

TeddyBear the helper wrote:How hampering is this when working with them in general? will everything positive we tell them always be wiped? if so, how to overcome that?

I'm not sure yet tbh. Asking him directly to remember positive feelings he'd had seemed to make him switch. Its unclear how much was wiped. It does seem like, even if he didn't explicitly remember the feelings or message, he *may* be starting to internalize it. Others in the system seem to be responding too, but its early.

TeddyBear the helper wrote:in the mind on repeat mixed with reality, would make just about anyone extremly angry and violent..

Maybe so :/

playinthemirror wrote:I'm not sure yet tbh. Asking him directly to remember positive feelings he'd had seemed to make him switch. Its unclear how much was wiped. It does seem like, even if he didn't explicitly remember the feelings or message, he *may* be starting to internalize it. Others in the system seem to be responding too, but its early.

Okey, then i think it is just stored so it belongs to a different mood than the normal stuff it will affect over time then, good
-Are you also early in your work with angry ones?

TeddyBear the helper wrote:Okey, then i think it is just stored so it belongs to a different mood than the normal stuff it will affect over time then, good
-Are you also early in your work with angry ones?

As for the different mood, there's also a little who was just discovered who seems to have a significant role in shutting down the others, as well as influencing their perception and thinking. They are trying to reach out to him but he is terrified and mute and hiding. I think it will take a little time.

I'm not sure how memory-storage works, do you know or have any links to writing on the subject?

Yes, this is all completely new. Just kind of stumbling around in the dark, so to speak. Flashlights needed :p

there's also a little who was just discovered who seems to have a significant role in shutting down the others, as well as influencing their perception and thinking. They are trying to reach out to him but he is terrified and mute and hiding. I think it will take a little time.

That sounds like it could be the original one. they are quite special.

I'm not sure how memory-storage works, do you know or have any links to writing on the subject?

No, i learn by asking questions and by watching how everything works, but i havent seen any writing on the subject at all, except for about how memoryneurons work, but that is quite far from the higher level organization of memories we need to be aware of.
However the thing about mood was inspired by the ego-state stuff which has been mentioned in the forum too, different situations in life requires different skillsets, so memory is a bit chopped up in different parts where it is easier to remember stuff that is related to the current situation.

Flashlights needed :p

And a map and a compass..

In our case, our host had to physically assault himself "back" to get the abuse to stop. Even then it was short-lived until the host took the next drink (we are alcoholics) at which point he (the abuser) escalated and attempted suicide.

I think in his case he has felt resigned to his role as an abuser...he stood mostly unopposed.

Speaking from our own experience, witnessing the untimely death of a loved one is unspeakably traumatic. And that it happened in such a violent and cruel manner magnifies it exponentially, and then some (for us the similarity ends in the means, as what we saw was not caused by violence).

When you witness something like a traumatic death of one close to you, you tend to personalize it. Obsess over it. Fear it. The abuser in our system has experienced both traumas, and accordingly I suspect assimilated it into his worldview. Fear of death and violence are healthy, normal fears, but conditioning your behavior around constantly expecting both might drive one to seek out the object of what is now a phobia just because the constant fear is so agonizing you irrationally want to subject yourself to it simply because you are tired of being afraid of it.

Again, this is just my conclusion after a lot of painstaking (and painful) introspect and experience. The protector in our system is so consumed by his fears he becomes self-absorbed by his quest to experience what he is scared of to get relief.

Next to physical brawls between the host and protector, I think what is necessary is to see the pain it causes other people. Not other parts, but other people. I would imagine your friend's protector is largely apathetic towards others in the system at least in his acts, though he probably carries guilt...he still at that time sees it as, ultimately punishment of his self.

If it is safe to do so, maybe that alter needs someone important to them to tell them that even if they think they are only hurting themselves they are selfishly, negatively impacting others. And that will be an undertaking in itself if he is prone to being self-loathing and self-destructive.

Keep us posted, be patient and compassionate...he probably really needs it no matter how frustrating his behavior is.

Krieger

When you witness something like a traumatic death of one close to you, you tend to personalize it. Obsess over it. Fear it. The abuser in our system has experienced both traumas, and accordingly I suspect assimilated it into his worldview.

Yes, it may have had some impact on him, but i dont know exactly how well they knew eachother.

If it is safe to do so, maybe that alter needs someone important to them to tell them that even if they think they are only hurting themselves they are selfishly, negatively impacting others. And that will be an undertaking in itself if he is prone to being self-loathing and self-destructive.

There is noone close to him from what i know, he mostly hides for everyone includig other alters, and noone is allowed to say his name or talk about him.

be patient and compassionate...he probably really needs it no matter how frustrating his behavior is.

Yes ofcourse, that is the only way to be even the ISH knows that and accepts it when i talk with the evil ones as if i was their friend too..

TeddyBear the helper wrote:There is noone close to him from what i know, he mostly hides for everyone includig other alters, and noone is allowed to say his name or talk about him.

I'm not a big fan of forums or anything like that, but the system pushed me to reply to this... so, here we go.

Everything you've described with this alter is exactly like I was a long time ago. I was angry and abusive to the system. I was antisocial and refused to talk to anyone in the system (which is quite hard when you're in a system where everyone can hear your thoughts). It's very isolating, and that isolation just makes the anger, fear, and self-loathing worse. Everyone was afraid of me and were too scared to speak up about me.

Calm compassionate communication is really the only way that I can see to stop it. I think that the pain of enduring the self-harm is not nearly as bad as realizing that you are harming your system more than you thought and having to confront the insecurities and fear that led you to harming the body in the first place. Achieving communication is difficult for most systems, as I've heard. But the most difficult part will probably be the aftermath. Helping the alter who hurt you work through their issues can't be easy for anyone. It definitely wasn't easy for our system. I was mad, and I hurt the body more because of it before I finally listened to all of the other alters' complaints.

I know that another alter in our system, Todd, basically said all this earlier in this thread. But we agreed that hearing from an alter similar to the one you are describing might be beneficial.

I will say that the quote from you that I put above stood out to me, though. The fact that "no one says his name or talks about him". I think that should be your first step, maybe. Before even getting communication going, trying to dissipate the fear of the whole system in regards to this alter is very important. If you talk to this alter while everyone is so afraid of him that they aren't allowed to say his name... I don't think that would go well. If the others had been afraid of me when they confronted me, I think that they wouldn't have made the impact that they did. Normalizing him is fairly important as well. Being afraid just makes it worse for everyone involved.

Just remember that he is probably in a very vulnerable state as well. I definitely was. The alters that do this aren't normally cold and unfeeling evil beings. We're just misguided, fearful, and angry for various reasons.

-Luke

I agree with Luke. I'm a Protector in our system. I was seriously mean to keep everybody safe. They thought I didn't care but the secret was I cared a lot. I just couldn't see them go through the bad things anymore. I'd had enough. Seen enough. I'd do anything not to see more.

Our T helped the others understand I wasn't evil. They stopped talking to me like I was bad. They even thanked me for protecting them. I changed. I'm still a Protector but I don't hurt them anymore. They listen to me now and help me protect us. I'm not alone.

Colin

Thankyou Luke !

It is true that the words from you is a lot more describing than what Todd said earlier, since every little nuance in what you say is from someone that knows him from the inside.
So, I will start by normalizing him in the system and make everyone less afraid of him, i think that it will take some time to do that, and i suspect there will be plenty of recistance to that from the others too..
And then when it is better with everything, then i start to communicate with him, i think he will approach me himself, when he is ready to talk.

Now i only need to work out the details for how to do everything.. especially the part about "that it will get worse before it gets better" is a hard one.

-- Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:43 am --

IainEtc wrote:I was seriously mean to keep everybody safe. They thought I didn't care but the secret was I cared a lot. I just couldn't see them go through the bad things anymore. I'd had enough. Seen enough. I'd do anything not to see more.

Thankyou Colin!

Those former evil ones who beat up the body was misinformed but completely adorable kids afraid of the things from the past.. they had valid reasons for their actions too ofcourse

But now i am talking to one more higher up in the hierarchy.. guessing there are even higher levels here.. however my first conversation with him got a bit lost.. but would any of you former badboys be willing to read thru the discussion i had and see what it is about?
Even if there isnt anything on the level of personal information in it, but i still dont want to post it here, so i would like to PM it..