Levels, ranks etc?

As always I'm wondering about stuff

Are there others here who have what some call levels, but that are called different things?

In our system we go by rank.

For example:

1st Rank: Leo, system manager
2nd: Emma | M is somewhere in here
3rd: Lin | in regards to rank as well.

The others don't really have a rank, but depending on what "group" or whatever I should call it, you have an amount of ability to switch, listen in etc (with exceptions for some).

Rank for us has to do with how much you can listen in, decide whether or not to come out etc, but doesn't have much to do with time spent in the body, and nothing to do with worth or how much respect you get in the system etc.

We also have different spaces in the inside world (different landscapes and everything) and if you're from one "part you (with some exceptions) can't go to a different "part" of the inner world etc, but this seems to have nothing to do with what rank you have (with the exception of Leo).

My question, it seems, is: what are levels and such things good for? Except the obvious, making bigger dissociative wall between even more of the alters / for more of the memories etc. Other than the dissociative walls (/etc) - what is it there for? To help keep a system in the.. system? Creating some sort of order in the inside world? Just wrapping my mind around it.

Thanks

Edited this into my post more eloquently now

1st Rank: Leo, system manager
2nd: Emma | M is somewhere in here
3rd: Lin | in regards to rank as well.

The others don't really have a rank, but depending on what "group" or whatever I should call it, you have an amount of ability to switch, listen in etc (with exceptions for some).

Rank for us has to do with how much you can listen in, decide whether or not to come out etc, but doesn't have much to do with time spent in the body. For instance, Nin is far down when it comes to "rank", with Anastasia being above her realistically, though both of them have been in the body a lot and are co-hosts.

Mapping is a personal thing and so is the way your system was set up when you were a child - to a degree. Of course there is always set things as well.

Your first rank might be Observing EP and System Managers. These alters have the ability to see all the other alters usually. An ISH might be in this group as well, but they are different, but still hard to distinguish from an Observing EP.

Second rank might be your ANP's (past hosts)

Third rank might be your EP's and Fragments. (parts that hold trauma memories)


------------------------------

In my system - I first knew about a single group of alters. Mixed ones - ANP and EP. Then one day I saw a hawk and someone said we have a hawk. I said no way! I have met all the alters in my system. That is what led me to find another subsystem that I call level II. So I go to level II and ask about all the alters there. I am told of Level III. This goes on until I learn of 25 levels or subsystems. I have mapped this systems in every which a way possible I think and even after that I just recently found out that the fragments (5,000 plus) we all floating around outside of these subsystems unknown by even my ISH.

I don't think of any part in the system as better than any other in any way at all! This would be a harmful thing to do, so try and not go there. Treat them like kids. All individual, yet all equally important and special. But... of course they have different jobs they do. All jobs too are equally important.

I don't think of any part in the system as better than any other in any way at all!

No, no - not at all. Rank for us just means the same as level does for most. Nin may be on a lower rank than me, but that doesn't have anything to do with me being better or more respected or anything - it just has to do with what abilities we have (like the fact that I can observe most of what has happened and been with the body for many many years, thus know a lot about it). Anastasia is lower than me as well but she sure gets lots more attention Rank has nothing to do with worth or anything of the sort - it's just like, I'm assuming, levels.

Mapping is a personal thing and so is the way your system was set up when you were a child

Of course I think in my second post (the comment) I was more eloquent in what I really wanted to know: What is it really good for? Does it have a function besides getting more dissociative walls? I assume it has a function because several larger systems have it.

Thank you

My question, it seems, is: what are levels and such things good for? Except the obvious, making bigger dissociative wall between even more of the alters / for more of the memories etc. Other than the dissociative walls (/etc) - what is it there for? To help keep a system in the.. system? Creating some sort of order in the inside world? Just wrapping my mind around it.

Think of Subsystems (levels) as groups of alters that know about each other but don't know about other subsystems or levels. Of course to heal you want to break down all dissociative barriers including those that make the subsystems (levels). In a small system different alters do not know about each other, but in a large system often alters within a subsystem learn about each other first, then eventually they will learn about other alters in other subsystems.

This is called polyfragmented. The more someone was abused the more this type of protection is seen. We all did what we had to so we could survive. Some had to become more elaborate than others.

(Another thought out there is those that are polyfragmented are more intelligent and thus able to create a more elaborate system, but I don't buy this and would have to see more information on it.)



-- Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:40 am --

We also have different spaces in the inside world (different landscapes and everything) and if you're from one "part you (with some exceptions) can't go to a different "part" of the inner world etc, but this seems to have nothing to do with what rank you have (with the exception of Leo).

This is all about Trance Logic. Whatever you believe inside can happen. You make the rules in your own world. You can work with the alters and change these rules. It's only limited by your acceptance and imagination.

Makes sense Thanks for answering.

This is called polyfragmented.

We have seen others here with levels who are not polyfragmented though? I thought that just meant there were 100+ alters?

lifelongthing wrote: Makes sense Thanks for answering.

This is called polyfragmented.

We have seen others here with levels who are not polyfragmented though? I thought that just meant there were 100+ alters?

Yes it does.

Systems with less than 100 alters that are not broken into subsystems - that I have not read about.

Perhaps all the alters are not yet found?
Perhaps they are not subsystems?
Perhaps they have to be difficult and not be normal?

This is what I mean by not understanding.

We have rank in our system, but it only helps us understand who knows what.. We have 3 ranks, that's it. Leo who is a system manager, me (because I can observe most everything happening on the outside and take part outside), lianne (because she has the same ability + is one of the ones who has been in the body the most + keeps tabs on the children on the inside, even the ones the others of us haven't even known about) and Marie we usually count in even though she doesn't have a rank. She is partly a gatekeeper, partly caretaker and a loving figure when we grew up. Mostly this just helps our T and other understand who they should be talking to and who keeps tab on what. It's like a list of 3 people to ask if you're wanting to know something/work on something. This is not the same as levels, as it doesn't affect who knows about who nor where we live on the inside, how much we dissociate between us or anything like that, which is why I made this post in the first place.

But I've seen others on here with levels (I don't want to name anyone) and not all of those are poly. Could it be that levels and sub-systems aren't the same? Or that level in one system means something different to another? I mean, DID being as personal as it is - it seems kind of weird to me that levels and such things would mean the same thing to everyone.

Just thoughts Hope I'm not being offensive to anyone.

-- Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:21 pm --

This is all about Trance Logic. Whatever you believe inside can happen. You make the rules in your own world. You can work with the alters and change these rules. It's only limited by your acceptance and imagination.

Yes, of course My point was more that, I don't believe this is what is meant by levels, as we can still live with and see and communicate with the others who don't share our rank (as it doesn't mean anything inside the system, just outside - it's an outside term so people can understand a bit better). I would assume that if we had levels, there would be an increase in the dissociative walls e.g it would be counter-intuitive to be living together and still be on different levels. Hard to explain

We have 2 levels in our system, we don't know if that makes them sub-systems or not.

The first level is kinda like the "first floor" of the inner world, and those that live there are the "Main Group" alters. These alters are those that are out the most, Cassandra is most aware of them, they're able to be co-conscious and co-host with almost all of each other, stuff like that. Kat is the main protector of the first level/"Main Group alters", and Rain is the main caretaker of the first level/"Main Group alters".


The second level is kinda like the "second floor" of the inner world, and those that live there are "Secondary Group" alters. These alters are not usually out often, Cassandra has little awareness of them compared to those on the first level, they're able to be co-conscious and co-host with almost all of each other but not always with the first level alters or Cassandra (who's still technically the host for now), stuff like that. So far, it seems that Dallas is the main protector of the second level/"Secondary Group alters", and Marie is the main caretaker of the second level/"Secondary Group alters" (though she's also very much a protector as well).


What we've come to notice is that each level tends to "mirror" the other one. In the first level, you have L.C. and Luna as twins. In the 2nd level, there's Damone and Dallas. In the 1st level, you have Ray who's half dog, so to speak. In the 2nd level, there's a pet cat that may or may not be an alter (we aren't sure yet). In the 1st level, you have Kat and Rain being protector/caretaker. In the 2nd level, you have Marie, who's like a mix of Kat and Rain, being both protector and caretaker. In the 1st level, you have Cassie. In the 2nd level, you have Cassidy. It's been interesting to see this stuff unfold, but I don't know if it means that the levels are subsystems or not (though they can certainly seem that way sometimes).


We don't really have "ranks" or anything like that. But we do know the different amounts of "power" each of us has/have within the system as far as being able to switch at-will, being able to forcefully take control, being able to be co-conscious, being able to co-host, etc. So far, apparently I'm the most "powerful" (somehow). After me I believe is Kat. Then Cassie. Then Marie and "Hannibal". (Though it can change slightly in order, these alters are the ones that, at least now, consistently have more "power" than the others). Before me, it was tied between Kat and Cassie for who was the most "powerful", and before that, it was Kat/Kataki who was the most "powerful", and before her, it was "Hannibal".


Don't know if this was helpful at all, but I hope it was at least relevant.


~The Hawk

-- Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:53 am --

Oh, and one more thing-

I've noticed that for us, knowing who is more "powerful" helps us to know who we can call to for help, and also helps us to be aware of any possible threats due to power (such as "Hannibal"). So whether something is happening inside or outside, we know that we can be calling/asking others such as Kat or Marie for help and they'll be the ones that are most likely able to reach us/help us. Knowing who is most "powerful" can help your system learn how to work together, and knowing who can get past things like dissociative barriers, especially if someone's triggered, is always a good thing.


~The Hawk

Thank you very much for your response tomboy That really did help.

Your last paragraph is what I've been trying to explain with our ranks. We know what each of can / can't, and to help others outside and inside the system know easily who to ask for help - we have these 3 ranks. It's far easier for our T for instance to know to ask for me when she wants to reach a particular alter, than it is when she asks Nin who is host, yes, but can't push someone else into the body. It's helpful - but bares no resemblance to a sub-system.

That's interesting about your levels and yes, it was definitely relevant Thank you again for sharing.