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You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

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You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby CameraEye » Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:48 am

You have the answer. You always had.

After a year of suffering from depersonalization I feel I need to tell others about my experience, as well as my thoughts of this topic. Things I am about to write may help, since I have discovered a lot of helpful techniques that helped me personally. Hopefully they will help others as well.

“If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable.”
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

During my research I have noticed an interesting pattern – people who are affected by depersonalization disorder (DP) are by nature very sensitive to their environment. Originally they may think not like others, feel emotions more deeply, have vast “inner world”. You see, people like that very often are not satisfied with their lives. They strive for something more, dream of distant shores, imagine themselves living their lives to the fullest. People with strong will go on doing things they truly want and nothing will stop them. They see where they want to be and they reach for their goals. Their minds and identities are firm. For others, myself as well, such things can be more difficult. There are many factors that affect our lives – family, work; it can be some tragedies that happened in the past – things that hold you physically and mentally. Sometimes we believe that we can’t just leave everything and do what we want – there are obligations in our lives and you have to do what you have to do. So, eventually, we become people who struggle between how they actually live their life and how they wish they were living their life. It brings disbalance and a feeling of duality to our existence.

Now I will tell you a bit about myself.
Previously I was like any other regular person – dreamed of a well paid job, big house, the usual stuff. I was sure that the world goes exactly as should – people live how they suppose to, politics and economics are done as they should. But as a matter of fact I never actually knew what a want to do. I was a lot concerned with what other people think about me. This made me wish that I was someone else – that I was more handsome, that girls will be lining up to date with me, that I had a great sense of style. I wanted to be cool like the guys on the tv. Things became worse when I moved to the UK where people are crazy about how they look and what they wear. The thing is that I genuinely wanted to be someone else.

But then, a year ago, one moment came. It struck me like a hammer in the head. I have realized that all of the things I always wanted and the values I had actually never made any sense. They were stupid. I realized how illogical the world was – with all of its false emotions, passion for consuming things, false politics. For the first time in my life I have realized how illusionary the society is. I have opened my eyes.

“The function of man is to live, not to exist.” Jack London

This revelation had a great impact on me. At that moment I was constantly stressed with my studies in the university, I wasn’t sleeping properly. I always had the thought if I don’t study well I will not be able to fit into society. I was constantly under pressure. Things were piling up like snow and with my new discovery everything collapsed in a massive avalanche.
What happened next you are all familiar with – constant thought that spiral in my head; lack of sleep; distorted vision; sense of unreality – all the symptoms.
I think that this happened to me because of the great stress and because my values and ideas have shifted so drastically and so fast that my brain just couldn’t handle it. But there is another idea why this happened which I will tell later.

As all of you, I thought I was going mad. But I knew one fact. And all of you need to remember this – when a person is schizophrenic and going mad he can’t distinguish his illusions and hallucinations from reality. He doesn’t notice and understand that he is going insane. We, on the other hand perfectly understand that something is not right with us. If you want to know how it might feel to go crazy check the movie Machinist with Christian Bale.
I always had a practical way of thinking. So I said to myself – “you haven’t changed. The world hasn’t changed. What has changed is your way of perceiving the world and yourself.” I have started doing research and found that I was experiencing DP. So naturally all of the things I was experiencing were just symptoms of an illness. I have started reading other people stories. And there I have found a first mistake (in my opinion) that a lot of people do. They lock themselves in their rooms. They are scared of going out and talking to people so they stop doing that. They stop doing a lot of things that they used to do because they believe that they will have a panic attack and lose consciousness. This is just stupid. They sit in their rooms and constantly think and check how they fill and focus on the symptoms, and that makes things only worse. The first rule of overcoming depersonalization is to stop being afraid. Personally for me, no matter how I felt, I had to go to the uni, I had to socialize with the people. Sure it was sometimes scary and uncomfortable but I was doing my best. It helped me distract myself from DP. I even applied for part time jobs and had interviews with serious people in suits, and everything was all right. I have even found myself a girlfriend. The fear is unreasonable. The more you fear panic attacks the more you are going to focus your attention on the way you fill and as soon as you feel like panicking you will focus on that and start to feel much worse. DO NOT THINK ABOUT IT. Go on with your lives – it will help you distract yourselves.

Here are some of the things I found useful to cope with DP.
As soon as you feel like your thought are caught in a spiral, practice to immediately stop them. Eventually you will be able to do that easily and you will become “masters of your thoughts”. It is very difficult to fall asleep with DP. In that case put on some music – classical, sounds of nature and relaxation music. As you lie in bed focus on music. It will distract you. I have found that cigarettes made me feel worse – a good reason to quit smoking. However alcohol was useful. In moderate doses it puts me in a state where being tipsy mixes with feelings of DP and balances things out. Like that I feel really relaxed. But do not drink too much – it will make thing pretty bad. Trust me. And try not to become addicted to alcohol. Another tip – do sports. Do whatever you enjoy – be it martial art (will help overcome fears of socializing), jogging or swimming etc. It will help you distract yourself and will help you have a better sleep at nights. Besides it will keep you in shape. Go for walks – by yourself or with friends. Helps keeping the head clear. Last but not least – educate yourself on the topic. As a matter of fact there are plenty of books about feeling of unreality. Get yourself a book - Overcoming depersonalization and feeling of unreality: a self-help guide using cognitive behavioral techniques by Baker, Hunter, Lawrence, David. It is brilliant and very helpful. It mentions plenty of other books on this subject for you to read. There is even a Hollywood film called Numb. In it the main character suffers from DP and it is very well made describing the symptoms. Surely it is just a romantic comedy with no practical solutions. But it shows how common the illness is and you are not the only one.
I started reading all sort of things about other mental illnesses. About the science of sleep and human body. As well as psychology. You will learn a lot of interesting things. It will give more basis for your understanding of yourself.

Now I will tell something that requires you to have an opened mind.

“Thought is the beginning of everything. And thoughts can be controlled. Therefore the main thing in self improvement is working on your thoughts.” Leo Tolstoy.

As I said before, I had another thought why all of this was happening to me. This is a challenge. An obstacle that I have to overcome. When I will do that I will come out as a winner, a better person – strong, confident of myself. This idea is not just a self-believe. You see, during my searches I have found interesting teachings of a polish psychologist Kazimierz Dabrowski. In his lifetime he developed a theory of positive disintegration. In a nutshell it is an idea that by experiencing DP, depression and other sorts of stuff it makes a person stronger and when he overcomes his illness he becomes a better person – on the next step of evolution of oneself and his mind. It is very difficult to find his works online. That made me think. Maybe, in order to truly become myself, realize what my true values in life are and understand who I am - I have to experience and overcome DP. But I was doing more research and have fund that ideas of Dabrowski are not new. There is one legendary psychologist Carl Jung. Basically he believed that psychology is not just digging in the past of ones life. In his teachings he mixed spirituality, consciousness and human behavior and how it all affects our lives. You see, it has always been said that in order to achieve spirituality and happiness, one needs to overcome great challenges. In Jungs teaching you can find such patterns of thinking. His ideas are that we are more than just people – bone and flesh. We are conciseness that has little boundaries.

I have found there is a term called spiritual crisis. As you know, with DP you feel like you have nothing to live for. Like you don’t know who you are anymore. I started to ask myself a lot of questions – why do I exist, why does the universe exist, what is the purpose of my life, why I am who I am. I never thought about it before, but great philosophers of all times where breaking their head on this subject. The answer however is easy – for every person it is different. And when you realize you start to think about such things, it means this is the time to start looking for your answers.

“While we pursue the unattainable, we make impossible the realizable.” Robert Ardrey

I believe that each person has his own path. This path will lead him to great happiness. The thing is, first you need to start walking that path. And not everybody manages to do that. The key is to listen to your heart. In this times of troubles it is the only thing that will help you make the right choice. Give a read to stories like Alchemist by Paulo Coelho and Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach. Great inspirations. As well I suggest you read some of the Hinduism Vedas and teachings. I don’t mean you should go into Hinduism. It is just that there are a lot of great thing to learn from it. As well as from Bible and Karan. You don’t need to be Hindu or Christian or Muslim to appreciate the good things that those books teach.

Do you know that not every mental illness has a logical explanation to it. Sure there are illness that are directly related to changes in the human body but there a great part of them that cannot be explained. DP is one of it. You can’t truly say what causes it, and it doesn’t seem to change the way our brains work. There is no cure for it. You can’t fully get rid of the DP symptoms. Overall DP doesn’t make much sense. We try to cure such illnesses by taking lots of medicine, seeing doctors but nothing helps us. Maybe, just maybe, such illnesses are not illnesses at all? With DP we ask all these questions about the meaning of our lives. Is just a strange thoughts caused by the sick brain? Or maybe it is some sort of spiritual emergency? The way our spirit tells us – in order to achieve great happiness you need to leave your old ideas behind and embrace the new ones. Maybe the answer lies in ourselves? Try reading a book called Spiritual emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis by Stansilav Grof and Christina Grof. Gives some food for the mind.

“What doesn't kill you stronger” Friedrich Nietzsche

Coming back to the thing i said in the begging about not being satisfied with your life and the feel of there is much more than we believe there is, comes full circle at this moment. My theory is that DP and other psychological illnesses develop in people who have great potential but they waist it all by putting themselves in the box of false believes and fears. As a matter of fact, I think they are the lucky ones (I know it really doesn’t feel like it). Dabrowskis idea was that such obstacles in life appear to gifted people. As I said, we have great potential and DP gives us the chance to rethink a lot of things and improve ourselves.

A few words about my current situation. I notice that during this year i have grown a lot. I have changed and the way I think has changed. I perfectly understand that it is stupid to hope that things will be as they used to. Instead I decide to embrace what the future is bringing. I feel sometimes some of the DP symptoms but they are very weak and I am not scared of them and don’t pay any attention. Overall life seems pretty good. This year I am finishing university, which is the only thing that is holding me back right now. And all this experience has given me a lot of thoughts about what to do when I will graduate. I feel I have grown as a person. The outlook for the future is bright and I am ready to move on.

I will give you the last advices if you truly want to overcome DP. Understand one thing – in any case you will never be as you used to be. Things will never be the same again. If you try fight DP by taking medicine or some therapy you will not heal yourself. That way you will never fully get rid of these feelings of unreality. It will always be there, in the back of your head, scaring you that everything might come back. Instead try to accept the thing you are experiencing. Try to understand their reason. In every situation there is bright side. DP is the reason to look for the answers, to improve yourself and become a person you want yourself to be. It will give you a positive outlook on the future. It all may sound like a fantasy. You can say that in our world believing in this “path” and “road to happiness” is just stupid. That our world is practical and there is no place for such nonsense. Well I disagree. There are plenty of people who walked this road. Who overcame the same obstacles as we have and who have found their happiness. Listen your heart and it will lead you to your path. Only you control your life.

In this world full of mirrors build by liars we are only a pale reflection of ourselves. You fell to the bottom of a deep dark hole and your mirror is broken. The image of you is shattered. But in a hole, if you look up you can see the light – it exists, you just have to climb out. So first you need to pick up the pieces of your mirror and put them together. You will cut yourself, it will hurt. But with every next piece that fits the other the hole you are in becomes smaller and smaller, lifting you up. And as you put the last piece you realize that there is no hole and you are standing on the firm ground. And the mirror is no more. Instead it is a glass. For mirror sees the world from different view. But through a glass you see the world with your own eyes. The way it should be.

Thank you for your attention and for reading this. Please tell me your opinion on this matter. If you want to talk to me personally email me at *Edited*
Last edited by Platypus on Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby Black Widow » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:10 pm

Thank you for writing this CameraEye, it is very interesting and uplifting.

I am actually reading the Alchemist in my spare time.
And I always have that music of Livingstone in my head, the one by Neil Diamond. It dates from way back. I think I was a seagull in the past. And then a living stone.
Always faster, and shorten your wings to do so. Always higher and faster. Dreams.
It is better to be the widow of a hero than the wife of a coward.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby under ice » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:11 pm

Thank you CameraEye. Your description of DP and how you can start freeing yourself from it by conscious thought and action rang a bell with me. Feeling outside of everything, having no part in anything used to be a dominant feeling for me all the time. I can also remember a change in my way of thinking and a change of goals much in the same way you described.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby Xevog » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:16 pm

Thanks for a great post, your perspective was really interesting to read, and I pretty much agree on everything you wrote. It's true that we have the answer within us, and it is more simple than we think, something I think can be hard to realize when you overthink things the way someone with DP tends to do. Great recommendations also for coping with DP, but I would like to mention doing meditiation. Lately I've been getting into mindfulness meditation, and I really recommend this to everyone experiencing DP. I have had DP for maybe 3-4 years, and for me the most prominent and troubling symptom was the disconnection from my own desires and feelings. By doing meditation I've become more in touch with myself again, and I really feel my DP dissolving now that I've started doing it regularly. I'm not completely cured, but I've come a long way from where I was.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby CameraEye » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:45 am

Xevog
I used to try meditating, but while doing that i had really weird sensations in my body, like i'm falling, moving or flying. It was just too strange. But I think I need to try practicing meditations again.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby Xevog » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:20 pm

CameraEye wrote:Xevog
I used to try meditating, but while doing that i had really weird sensations in my body, like i'm falling, moving or flying. It was just too strange. But I think I need to try practicing meditations again.

It's not unusual to have these sorts of sensations when meditating I think, I did have some weird things going on in my body too the first time I tried it, and I still do. When meditating you're not supposed to be under pressure to feel a certain way or to think certain thoughts, the point is to just stay with whatever comes up. I think that is what can make meditation useful for someone with DP, it sort of validates your experience and makes you feel less weird about it. It can take time, though, to feel the effects.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby ashesoflife » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:30 pm

Very well written. Thank you for posting that.
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Re: You have the answer. You always had. - My study into DP

Postby aquabella » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:52 pm

Thank you for conveying (in your words) so many thoughts and feelings I have had with my own experience of DP/DR; I came to this community to reach out and try to convey a similar message. I assume this to be a place where I can feel safe, fully expressed and related to, amidst the occasional turmoil in my brain. I assume we should all have these gifts upon becoming a part of this community--most of all, if in a moment of a downward spiral.

For those effectively in the 'hell' of DP or in a moment of downward spiral, please consider acting 'as-if' with as much awareness as you can muster. The 'act-as-if' tool has helped me out quite a bunch. It's not a simple task to motivate into, but gets easier with practice. Don't dwell on the perceived importance of whether you FEEL anything or not, acting 'as-if' you ARE safe, fully expressed and related to, in this moment, now, is what's important.

Acting 'as-if' could be a useful tool; and at the very least, help you to get through (the moment) by helping you to break the state of self-perpetuating negative indulgences (ie. abuse of self, others, sex and/or drugs). It's the whole principal of "commit the action and the mind will follow." Resisting the urge to check back in with your DP/DR and KEEP BRINGING YOURSELF BACK to acting 'as-if' can be a useful tool to help you through these most effed up of moments. This process is self-correcting in that: with diligence and positive commitment, relief will come.

The whole idea of trying to commit our thoughts/minds (and not the action) to something is pretty redundant to us DP/DR, esp. when the thoughts become self-indulgent/self-destructive. I'd like to believe that we are all here to help ourselves and each other not just to be understanding of one another, but to challenge one another toward our best possible outcome - RECOVERY! I challenge you to take heart and act 'as-if' your best possible outcome WILL happen for you :)

I am willing to do almost anything to beat the negative obstacles of this DP/DR sucker, even it that means I must submit to it. And I have!

I admit that I DO have days that I'm unsure of going into a situation, but part of the task of being developmentally 'right' with myself is to act with assured-ness, anyway, AND DIVE INTO THE EXPERIENCE!! I find that I lose track of my DP within minutes and find that hours go by ACTUALLY enjoying myself. One of my favorite quotes by Joseph Campbell is "If you are falling, prepare to dive".

With the 'Act-as-if" concept in mind, here's something that could be well-aligned with your principle. I wrote this for my new, not yet publicized, blog a while ago about developmental stages of development.
------------------
There is a lot of misinformation and confusion about DP/DR and its possible relationship to spiritual and/or religious development. There are numerous developmental theories that have been created, identified with and practiced: psychological/cognitive, social/moral, and spirituality/religion. Most, if not all, of them describe and identify a stage of or state in development that epitomizes, even embodies, the DP/DR experience.

This post is strictly an unbiased look at these developmental stages and their states where DP/DR is present. I have done a lot of research on DP/DR in hopes to find relief from my own DP/DR struggles. I don't advocate, condone or align my self any one theory or philosophy, but have found some comfort and a more playful attitude toward reality discovering the similarities between them and the mythos within them all. The discovery of connection may well be what is helping me on my way to recovery.

To use an example of one of the such possible theories, I have chosen to contrast Depersonalization with relationship to Buddhist states and stages toward attaining enlightenment.

*States - Termed 'Jhana' in Buddhism - loosely translated, means:
condition/conditions/conditioning, where you are "at" in mind and/or body--state of being, area of concentration, learning/training/, task or practice, perceived experience (non judgmental feelings/emotions), concentration, acceptance vs. resistance levels of a situation, meditation. Jhanas are neither good or bad and can be used as tools for self-reflection.

Different states (Jhanas) can be eased into or quickly 'triggered' in ANY stage and at any time. Jhanas are temporary - distortions in conceptual time and space; temporal momentum interruption - and unfixed, meaning more than one Jhana can be experienced at a time and more than one person can share the same state individually and/or with one another even if the internal/external conditions which triggered them are very different.

Where, when, how, and why a certain Jhana is experienced depends on where our awareness is concentrated: internal/external environment. The intensity of the Jhana largely depends on the level of ease vs. difficulty with and acceptance vs. resistance of the lessons being learned in the current Nana.

**Stages - Termed 'Nana' in Buddhism - loosely translated, means:
'knowledge of', insight, conviction and wisdom. A Nana is a marking point or turning point of spiritual transition (or cognitive development). Once a stage (Nana) is completed it becomes embodied knowledge and you will not back slide into an earlier (or lower) stage.

Think: you 'know' how to ride a bike, tie your shoes, recite the alphabet - There is no longer a need to concentrate on or practice doing - you just DO it. There are approx. 16 Nanas -- Nanas 1 through 4
are the lower Nanas and are considered stages of Self 'awakening'/Knowledge of Being Self as Self and is the process of becoming aware of spirituality (the Divine) as we awaken to and gain
knowledge of our identifications of Self. Whereas the highers Nanas, 5 through 15, are considered to be spiritually awakened stages - practitioners in these stages assert well-defined, working or functioning assumptions in a philosophy, opinion or spiritual belief and is the process of becoming spiritually 'enlightened'.

The long, sometimes difficult, even downright frustrating (this is a state/jhana) process of enlightenment ends at the completion of the 15th Nana where "Nirvana" is attained. The 16 Nana IS "enlightenment"; enlightenment is "IS-ness" embodied and is more of a perpetual state of being than it is a stage of development.

Here's two great links on the stages:

http://www.interactivebuddha.com/Nanas% ... ablep1.pdf
http://www.buddhanet.net/knowledg.htm

I'm going to make a bold statement...Depersonalization is NOT spiritual enlightenment! It is not even defined as a stage (Nana) of enlightenment. According to many sects of Buddhism, the initial
experiences of the DP/DR state (jhana) are short in length (minutes to days/weeks) and sometimes fleeting; they begin to occur in the 2nd Nana (the stage of cause and effect); yet are still temporary. After the 2nd stage, when you have embodied the lesson of 'cause and effect' and learn to take personal responsibility for EVERYTHING in life that your 'self' creates, the 3rd Nana comes in to challenge that lesson with the Three Characteristics: impermanence, suffering,and no-self (very DP/DR, No?).

The 3rd nana is characterized by the words deconstruction and de-condition. The DP/DR moments are long (weeks, months years), seems like a permanent condition, as the moments are chronic and are not fleeting. In the 3rd Nana the DP/DR Jhana, too, is EXTREMELY dark, cryptic, and lonely--BUT WORSE, because there doesn't seem to be an end to it! But, IMHO, this is the lesson--Learning to 'let go' of your previous mental construct and its conditioning.

Up until this point all of what you "know" about the universe is your sensory input and has been polar in opposition (good/bad, right/wrong, black/white, male/female). With (the state of) DP/DR messing up your sensory input (emotions, feelings, sense of self, etc...) you are forced to learn to know the universe as it is in itself (for example: do you "know" the apple is sweet and juicy? No... but you are inclined to ASSUME it is).

Nothing is 'personal' in DP, so you are forced into learning how to "know" a thing without interpreting, judging, labeling, identifying or picking it apart; you simply see, touch, taste, smell, hear (and to some - intuit) without judgement and without emotion.

When you 'feel' neither good or bad about something or indifferent about it, you are at the beginning of passing through the 3rd Nana--this is the experience of non-duality (be mindful that indifference is NOT apathy; apathy is a negative state of feeling, is depression and NOT DP).

At the very base, this Nana teaches realignment with the deepest of instinct and sense recognition (gut feelings): away from/toward, repel/propel, repulse/impulse, safety/risk. This may be a lesson to learn to have more trust in or belief in our self from a physiological perspective (remember...in DP/DR emotions and feelings no longer exist; or seem to - this is psychological). These lessons start with 'self' and in progression extends to the universe upon entering into the 4th Nana.

This Nana is called the Arising and Passing Away of things (AP for short), as impermanence and fleeting experiences become more and more apparent in a 'factual' way rather than in its previously futile way. The build up to 'letting go' of the futility is the most difficult, frustrating and tumultuous to persevere in. It can take months to many years to pass through the 4th Nana and is surpassed in what is "the AP Event".

Perceived by many to be nearly impossible to get through and has been described as: like a nervous breakdown, psychotic break, drastic shift in consciousness, etc. This is also known as "The Dark Night of the Soul" (see St. John of the Cross, see below); many seekers who've passed through this point would encourage the dark night experience if they had only knew what it was.

According to Shinzen Young, "This phenomenon, within the Buddhist tradition, is sometimes referred to as 'falling into the Pit of the Void.' It entails an authentic and irreversible insight into Emptiness and No Self. What makes it problematic is that the person interprets it as a bad trip. Instead of being empowering and fulfilling, the way Buddhist literature claims it will be, it turns into the opposite. In a sense, it's Enlightenment's Evil Twin. This is serious but still manageable through intensive, perhaps daily, guidance under a competent and knowledgeable teacher. In some cases it takes months or even years to fully metabolize, but the results are almost always highly positive."

More from Shinzen Young explaining the dark night:
http://shinzenyoung.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... night.html

A great podcast (and transcript) describing the dark night:
http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2011/09/bg ... t-project/

In most sects of Buddhism, it is not custom to teach the stages of development, as higher stages are a complete mystery to those in lower stages of development and the path is slightly different for everyone. Enlightenment can NOT be a goal, but a journey to. You can 'know' where you've come from and have an idea of where your destination ends (in enlightenment), but you must carve your path IN THE MOMENT while in/on the journey. The lessons become knowledge at self reflection and many moments of introspection (or meditation)--you can not learn from a past moment if consumed with ideals of the future.

If you align with Buddhist philosophy, a negative experience of DP could very well be an inability to cope with emptiness, non-duality, and no-self introduced at the beginning of the 3rd Nana. It could also be that you are lost and in the 'thicke' of the dark night at the end of the 4th Nana. The experience will only gets worse if not dealt with an air of knowing that: THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS!! It is much easier to navigate the dark night with a knowledgeable mentor, coach or friend.

With some relief and clarity on the other side of the AP Event and the dark night, the letting go of !@#$% enables the 'Stream Winner'(one who surpasses these seemingly negative events) is now welcomed, or pulled into, the stream; entering into the natural and REAL 'flow' of life. This is "stream entry" at the 5th Nana and is considered in Buddhism to be the first (real) stage toward spiritual enlightenment and often mistaken for enlightenment in itself.

At this point, a Buddhist practitioner will cease to reincarnate into lower life forms (plants/animals) and will reincarnate only into human form, so the divine spirit may continue it's journey to Nirvana. From this point, a common experience is the recognition that 'self' and spirit are Divine and experiences of 'one-ness' with ALL things (even non-existence) is persistent. It is estimated that only a small percentage of the worlds population even get this far, let alone any farther (at least in this life-according to reincarnation).

From stages 3 to 5, DP/DR is a common state. Some pass through these stages in months and others it may take decades. What is important, is just to know that DP/DR is a 'state of being'. The sooner we let go of what was and stop being nostalgic for our 'conditional' past, the sooner we can embrace and even indulge in what IS.

Because polarity in constructs are deconstructed in later stages, those who claim any 'path' (Buddhism or any other developmental growth path) as evil or wrong is still, quite possibly, struggling with passing the 2nd or dealing with the 3rd Nana (this is where most people get stuck). In later stages, judgement and polarity become irrelevant in self dialogue.

If Buddhism is 'your thing', I can not stress this enough --- It is IMPORTANT to have a guide, prior path walker, teacher (master), who knows his/her stuff and can effectively communicate the 'path' to you and help you to positively (or non-judgmentally) interpret the meaning within your journey (this is where the Theory of Positive Integration by Kazimierz Dąbrowski was really helpful--see below). Don't dismiss anything all willy-nilly without asking the questions: who? what? when? where? why? and most importantly HOW--ie. How might this this path (course of action) affect me? How do these states/stages affect me/others? How do I get through the hard parts? How do I reach out when I need help?

If Buddhism doesn't work for you....fine...move on! Stop lingering on what doesn't work and get to finding something that does. 1) Find a path (developmental theory) that makes sense to you and act-as-if you KNOW where you are in its' stages. 2) Align yourself with that path and work it as long as it works for you. 3) Move forward on the path when the lesson/s have been revealed to you (when you KNOW something). 4) Find the connections that exist in ALL of it. 5) Stay on the path as long as it makes sense, otherwise...MOVE ON to another theory.

Other theoretical stages of growth to consider:

**St. John of the Cross
"Dark Night of the Soul" (Spanish: La noche oscura del alma) is the title of a poem written by 16th-century Spanish poet and Roman Catholic mystic Saint John of the Cross.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_night_of_the_soul

His poem narrates the journey of the soul from its bodily home to its union with God. The journey occurs during the night, which represents the hardships and difficulties the soul meets in detachment from the world and reaching the light of the union with the Creator. There are
several steps in this night, which are related in successive stanzas. The main idea of the poem can be seen as the painful experience that people endure as they seek to grow in spiritual maturity and union with God. The poem is divided into two books that reflect the two phases of the dark night. The first is a purification of the senses. The second and more intense of the two stages is that of the purification of the spirit, which is the less common of the two. 'Dark Night of the Soul' also describes the ten steps on the ladder of mystical love, which was previously described by Saint Thomas Aquinas and also in part by Aristotle.

**Kazimierz Dąbrowski
Theory of Positive Disintegration (TPD) - Theoretical framework of personality development which views psychological tension and anxiety as necessary for growth. These "disintegrative" processes are therefore seen as "positive," whereas people who fail to go through positive disintegration may remain for their entire lives in a state of "primary integration." Advancing into disintegration and into the higher levels of development is predicated on having developmental potential, including overexcitabilities and above-average reactions to stimuli.
2.1 Level I: Primary Integration
2.2 Level II: Unilevel Disintegration
2.3 Level III: Spontaneous Multilevel Disintegration
2.4 Level IV: Directed Multilevel Disintegration
2.5 Level V: Secondary Integration

FOR MORE ON POSITIVE DISINTIGRATION:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_ ... ntegration

**Wittenberg
identifies five metaphysic characteristics
1. A self image crisis, the person alternates between responding to superego demands (parental/authority) and adhering to one’s ego- ideal.
2. Brief states of depersonalization, a person experiences a loss of identity. Accompanied by series of disembodiment, isolation and estrangement.
3. End of role playing. Reality sets in. Often accompanied by depression.
4. Awareness of time continuity. The sense of time passage become more acute. It includes developing the ability to allocate and utilize time in one’s activities, plans or defenses.
5. Search for a partner. the young adult chooses a love object for ‘permanent affiliation.’

**Erik Erikson
Devoted his research to defining the eight stages of life. Young adulthood, according to this model, falls in the sixth stage, “intimacy vs. isolation.” The developing person up until that time has been
forming his identity. There is a lack of feeling of self- sameness over time, which is important for the sense of identity, is fractured at many points of development. The fragmentation of the sense of self is common during the acute stages like stage 6. This stage can only occur after the person has successfully completed the other 5 stages and often, chronology of age is not the most important consideration-maturity is.

**Robert White
Is an important theorist who did extensive clinical research with young adults. He identifies five “growth trends” of young adult development:
(1) stabilizing of ego identity or feeling confident within the newly found identity and not as apt to succumb to outside pressures
(2) freeing of personal relationships in terms of dealing with problems in the “present,” they are thus able to become more sensitive to another person because they are less tied with their personal history
(3) deepening of interests and the enjoyment of life which shapes a person over time and is “tied to both competence and commitment
(4) humanizing of values distinguishing “between abstract morality of adolescence and the more functional morality of young adulthood"
(5) expansion of caring the stage of the “growth trend”
This theory is closely related to Erikson’s idea of “generativity”

**Carl Jung
Recommends getting in touch with ones 'Anima/Animus' (alternate gender identity) as much as possible. Otherwise depersonalization, heightened anxiety, tension, and agitation can take over. If not dealt with correctly, the Shadow self will have difficulty in reconciling itself with the world. Introverted types are more adversely affected and would benefit most from psychotherapy, as they are more likely to repress than express.

Others developmental stages to look up:

Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Ken Wilber on development of self
Kohlberg's stages of moral development
Loevinger's stages of ego development
Piaget's theory of cognitive development
Neo-Piagetian theories of cognitive development
Psychosexual development
Model of Hierarchical Complexity
Sociocultural evolution (cultural development)
Fowler's stages of faith development
Stages of Team development
Spiral Dynamics social growth development
"Mystical Love" described by Saint Thomas Aquinas (also in part by Aristotle)
Freud - oral,anal, phallic - growth related to sexual instinct
More...More...More...Just look!!!

Sending explosive potential joy... :P

*mod edit*

Peace and all that jazz...
Last edited by lilyfairy on Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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