I don't exist. (possible triggers)

I don't know how to "be" around people.

I cannot figure them out. I can't read them. I cannot feel at ease around them.

I can't gauge their tone of voice or the expressions on their faces. I have an especially hard time deciphering sarcastic comments.

If I overhear people talking about someone, I start to assume it's about me.

I get such intense feelings of others judging me, I lose my own train of thought and have to focus twice as hard on whatever it is I am doing. Which just makes it harder to think.

When I am on the street or in a crowd of people, I don't know where to focus my attention.

I am overly courteous to people and it gets me nowhere. Another problem is that my friendliness is often mistaken for flirtation, which ends up making people uncomfortable. Too be fair, I couldn't even be sure when I'm flirting or not.

I don't offer up many of my own thoughts or opinions and, when I do, they go unnoticed or are contradicted.

I don't know how to make people feel better.

I am often too nervous to smile. I have to remind myself to smile.

Strangers often ignore me. They talk around me instead of acknowledging me. I often get the feeling I'm being ridiculed by groups of strangers, as if I stick out like a sore thumb.

I feel like I give off a negative energy when, actually, I am very patient and kind and understanding.

If I put on my happy face, I feel like I'm being overly exuberant. If I try to be normal, I feel like a depressing bore.

My ex-girlfriend's been giving me a second (more like twentieth) chance recently and I fear I am going to blow it once again. During the times she has broken up with me, I feel like I am worthless.

And so I ask you, earnestly, are these the hallmarks of BPD?

I'm very conflicted right now. I see how so many people are terrified, deep down, of being alone. I see all of their ploys for getting attention. On one hand, I've become better about dealing with my feelings of "alone-ness." On the other hand, I'd just like to have some ######6 friends and feel normal enough to feel justified in having a partner in life.

I've alienated so many people in my life. Feels terrible.

hi there -

just reading your story makes me wanna reach out and give you tons of e-hugs! i'm wondering if you might have traits of:

1) social anxiety - http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guid ... y-disorder
and/or
2) asperger's - http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/as ... e-symptoms

have you looked into either of these? they do have treatments (most likely cognitive) but that can help you overcome these anxieties. what do you think?

Many of the things that you talk about, I also experience. I have BDP and AvPD and possibly other disorders, so its hard to pinpoint what could be the origins of the feelings that you are experiencing. Oftentimes I often feel invisible when I am around people, and I don't know how to make my presence become more known. Then again, it's tied in with my family of origins. Besides being raised in an abusive neglectful environment, us children also were to be seen and not heard. So, I've never learned how to be comfortable in the physical space that I am occupying. We weren't allowed to forcefully be who we were. We did all we could to avoid having any attention directed towards us because it usually was not a positive one. So, it was often safer to try to be invisible.

friend_Z wrote:I don't know how to "be" around people.

I cannot figure them out. I can't read them. I cannot feel at ease around them.

Hi friend,
What pops out to me on your post is the focus on others. Them Them Them.
I cant please THEM is basically what you are saying.

Take your first sentence here.

I cannot figure them out. I can't read them. I cannot feel at ease around them.

People are very complex. And there is only one way to figure them out, to read them, and to understand them. And that is to figure yourself out and to understand you first. How can you understand others if you do not understand you first?

There are 2 languages that all people speak.
1) the language of ACTIONS - our words, deeds, and all thats physical
2) the language of our thoughts and feelings and values - the language of SELF

Its very clear you understand the language of ACTIONS. That language is right in your face all the time.
Its physical or verbal and its just right there all the time. Like a picture. But actually life is more like one of those pictures where there is a picture within a picture and you have to focus your eyes really hard and focus differently to see the underlying image.
But the language of ACTION is sometimes based in lies and its rules are ever changing, the language of ACTION has the goal of WINNING. If the goal is winning....then that means someone has to lose.

The language of thoughts, feelings, and values is very different then the language of ACTION.

The language of the SELF is always made up of truth, the rules are always the same, and the goal is always fairness. When the goal is fairness then there is no LOSER.

Some people speak only the language of ACTIONS.
Some people speak both languages. People who speak both have a great advantage. They can see two pictures. They have a broader perception. They have more truth and because of that they can judge more accurately.

To know the language of self you cant focus primarily on others, on pleasing them or on making sure they are happy. In fact in the language of self this would be unfair. If I focus on pleasing others all the time then it would be unfair to me, because then there would be no one to make me happy. And since the language of self is about fairness then its also about equality, meaning I deserve to be happy as much as anyone else. It is fair that everyone in responsible for their own life and happiness.

Understanding others is a byproduct of understanding oneself. If everyone is equal...then it means you are no different them others inside. If you are no different then it means if you understand you ....you automatically understand them. Let me show you something....
You say

I don't know how to make people feel better.

Do you know how to make yourself feel better?
My guess is no, because you posted a whole letter here saying at the end...."Feels terrible"
When you know how to make yourself feel good ....then you will also know how to make anyone else feel good. Feeling good is something that has to do with the language of the SELF....the inside.

The language of ACTION , the physical, the surface......is very confusing if you cant put it together with the inside language.
Things on the surface are all about others.
Things inside are all about you.

To learn the language of self you have to focus on your feelings and what they mean to you.
Anger - means something is important to you
what is it? Anger about fairness - means fairness is important to you. Fairness is GOOD.

If you were angry about lies.. it would mean the truth is important to you. The truth is good.

These feelings and what they mean are all you....a part of you. The inside part. And its a good part.

You say here....."If I try to be normal"
Whos definition of normal are you trying to be?
Someone elses definition - outside focus
or your own definition of normal - inside focus

How can you know what normal is....if you dont know what it is for you???

If you never paid much attention to you before then it will be hard to learn the inner language, but not anywhere near impossible. Because you have been living with you for forever! You are the expert on you!

Some people have been taught or conditioned not to pay attention to themselves. That conditioning isnt right or fair and so already its not a part of the self. Its an outside or surface influence. Hope this makes sense.

I also agree you should look into Asperger's Syndrome. My boyfriend has it and it it sounds like you could too.

Do you also have sensory issues? Certain kinds of touching, sounds, light etc that you can't handle?

There's a great forum for people with it at http://www.wrongplanet.net/ It helped me learn a lot about my boyfriend.
I hope the mods don't mind me linking. We do also have a forum about it here but it isn't as active.

wineaux wrote:2) asperger's

I thought I might have Asperger´s for a while because (among other things) I can have trouble reading people/socializing/ect and got evaluated. Come to find out I don´t have it and my ability to read people is average, yet I know I find it difficult. I only recently noticed that when I´m dissociated my ability to read facial expressions as well as understand sarcasm/irony goes way down (which both are aspie traits). And dissociation is or can be linked to (social) anxiety (which sounds like you may have).

Friend_Z, do you think it is possible that all the stress of socializing makes you dissociate to the point you have trouble reading people, understanding social cues ect? Or that being stressed out, worried and anxious like that might make it hard for you to think straight?

I also think that, while you may feel very insecure or uncomfortable in social situations, there is the possibility that other people don´t even notice. Thinking people are talking badly about you behind your back sounds like you are very insecure.

All the best for you, also for you and your (ex)girlfriend as a couple.

Wineaux: Thanks for the hug! Yeah, I certainly struggle with social anxiety. A lot. I've only recently begun to question whether it is the result of some larger, deeper issue. I will be reading more about Aspergers.

Jamberrypie: I also have a very difficult time figuring out how to make my presence known. I am often hesitant to greet or acknowledge people for fear they won't reciprocate. I used to really feel bad when people ignored me in the past. It would really shake my self-confidence. It's strange because I want to acknowledge others and get on with them but, more often than not, I just keep to myself. Failing to acknowledge others, I think, makes me look me look either weak or arrogant. I think it sets a bad tone for further interactions with people.

I cannot gauge when to acknowledge people and when not to. It's always a crap shoot for me. Sometimes it feels like a standoff, like who will say something first. I come from a small town, so it is in my upbringing to just say "hi," even to strangers. Now, though, I live in a larger city and people just get on with it.

I grew up in a small family with a single (sometimes overbearing) mother. I spent a lot of time by myself. At other times I would "latch on" to other friends' families as a substitute. I think this has impacted my feeling of "belonging" in groups. I just want to be pleasant and not be a bother to anyone - to the point that I just don't engage.

I am very conflicted about wanting/not wanting attention. I also have great difficulty accepting praise and/or criticism from others. And, the more you interact with other people, the greater your chances are of running into either.

ThisEndUp: You are right. I dwell far too much on how others are feeling. Meanwhile, I think I bury my own feelings. I have a hard time figuring out just how I feel about things. Also, I tend to think my feelings have no merit. I think I often get angry or agitated at trivial things done/not done by others. And when I do have some legitimate reason to be upset, I just don't know how to process through it.

This makes it hard to use your described languages of ACTION and SELF with certainty.

I agree with you that everyone has their own definition of what is "normal." There is no absolute. I guess what I was getting at is how I often have the feeling of performing for others (which I know is not good). I think that I will subconsciously try to mirror the thoughts and mannerisms of others. Now, I think we humans all do some degree of mirroring each other. It's a tool to help us get along. But I think I can (subconsciously) go overboard with it.

A lot of what you wrote compares to the Buddhist teachings I've been reading. Great analogy about pictures within pictures, too. I like it.

I am learning to pay more attention to myself and it definitely helps. I just go through these moments of insecurity in which I need to vent. I have found that this forum has many supportive people who want to help us delve deeper into our issues. I am grateful for that.

LoveBug: Thanks for the link, looks interesting. I might have some sensory issues, yes. I am definitely averse to loud noises, with the exception of music of my choosing. And even then I feel like it should be playing at an "optimal" level.

I would say that I am a very sensual person, if that means anything. I spend a lot of time gazing at flowers and touching plants when I walk down the street, for example. I think I sometimes touch things to feel comforted or grounded. I can get distracted by sights and sounds even when they aren't pertinent to what I am doing at the moment.

When it comes to intimate touch, though, I think I can be irregular. It's something I want and crave, for sure (one of the greatest things you can touch is the person you love). But it also makes me uncomfortable at times. I can be awkward with my displays of affection. And sometimes I just plain forget to physically show my affection.

Camelidae: Thanks for the well wishes with my ex. How did you go about getting evaluated? A few of you have suggested Asperger's now.

I have definitely gone through stressful social situations where I've dissociated. Anything involving groups of people heightens my stress. Cognition goes out the window, it's like I shut down and can't think straight. I'll also get into these weird, paranoid states where people are talking about somebody else and it feels like they're just making it up, that they're actually talking about me or trying to send some kind of subtextual message to me.

Thank you all for the thoughtful posts and for giving me points to think more about. There are so many kind, well-meaning people on here.

friend_Z wrote:Camelidae: Thanks for the well wishes with my ex.

You are very welcome.

How did you go about getting evaluated? A few of you have suggested Asperger's now.

First, I´d say it is important that if you do get evaluated (even if it´s just to cross another option off of your list of things you may have) to find someone specialised in autism spectrum disorders, particularly in adults. I don´t know if there are any where you live, but where I´m from there are autism support centres where people on the spectrum, their loved ones and I also think a few professionals work together, meet up, help people deal with the day-to-day life ect. If there is one of those centres, you may want to call or email them, as 1) they may be able to point you into the right direction, help you find a professional near you and 2) as you meet people in person (which, of course, is optional) you may get an impression of whether or not anything "clicks", if you can relate ect. It may take a while, up to a few months, to get an appointment. Once you have an appointment, everything as usual (tell them why you are there, things about yourself ect). They´ll test for a varity of things such as IQ, concentration, your ability to read faces, empathise and relate in social situations, personality traits ect. That´s what they did when I went there anyway.

I think it may be helpful for you not to get informed about Asperger´s too much beforehand. Self-assesment isn´t easy because you cannot be very objective, especially not if you have no clear idea of who or what you are (BPD identity issues) so you might end up subconsciously taking on the AS traits to fit the dx or only focus on what you can realte to instead of seeing the whole picture. So even while you may not have an idea of who you are (I don´t know if you do, but since it´s part of the BPD criteria), it is still easier without background knowledge to be yourself there which will help evaluate you more correctly.

If you have any questions (even though I´m by no means an expert), feel free to PM me. I won´t be here for a week though so if I don´t reply immediately that´s why and has nothing to do with you.

I have definitely gone through stressful social situations where I've dissociated. Anything involving groups of people heightens my stress. Cognition goes out the window, it's like I shut down and can't think straight. I'll also get into these weird, paranoid states where people are talking about somebody else and it feels like they're just making it up, that they're actually talking about me or trying to send some kind of subtextual message to me.

Sounds socially phobic to me.

Take care.

friend_Z wrote: I think I bury my own feelings. I have a hard time figuring out just how I feel about things. Also, I tend to think my feelings have no merit. I think I often get angry or agitated at trivial things done/not done by others. And when I do have some legitimate reason to be upset, I just don't know how to process through it.

I have a friend with BPD and what I used to tell him all the time was....the thing you fear the most is exactly the thing you need to go toward and explore.

I dont think anger is EVER wrong. It can be a feeling as small as annoyance or as big as rage.
But its always valid in the sense that it points to something you value.

I find most of my anger comes from my wanting things like fairness or truth. FAIRNESS is a HUGE value for most people. And you are right in the sense that some anger can seem trivial. But fairness itself , for example, is never trivial in the grand scheme of life. You know what I am saying? Its not a huge deal if someone cuts ahead of me in line somewhere.....its trivial. But if my mother left my brother everything in her will and I got nothing. Thats also unfair and not quite so trivial. So in that sense its never wrong to demand FAIRNESS from people. What is sometimes wrong is the level of reaction to unfairness. People can OVERREACT to trivial things. Or UNDERREACT to BIG things. But its always ok to react. The punishment just needs to fit the crime. Assertiveness is a good tool to have on board with that.

Things you feel are a part of you. I understand what you mean when you talk about processing them. I think its good to never doubt the feeling. But at the same time QUESTION the circumstance. The FEELING is never wrong.....but the circumstances in which feelings occur can change ones perception a great deal.

I might see someone take something and think they are stealing. My FEELING that stealing is wrong.....is never wrong. BUT...I also might found out that the circumstances which made it appear to me that someone was stealing, were just giving me a faulty image. Like if I see someone take something from a store only to discover later it was the store owner.

To process FEELINGS( SELF stuff) .....is easy. Just assume they are always right!
But to process the SURFACE ( ACTION/PHYSICAL) things......those are the things you need to stop and question, get more facts, make sure you have all information, and its perfectly alright to ask questions of people when doing that.

I think that I will subconsciously try to mirror the thoughts and mannerisms of others. Now, I think we humans all do some degree of mirroring each other. It's a tool to help us get along. But I think I can (subconsciously) go overboard with it.

When I am with others......I am not waiting for them to evaluate my acceptability to them.
I say what I feel and think. For example....if I were you and I thought to myself.....wow I dont know what to say to people. I would likely go up to someone who looks as out of place as I FEEL and say......I always feel so dumb in these situations I never know what to say so I decided to practice on you! Then i would probably laugh, cause it is FUNNY in a way. I would just PUT MYSELF out there.
I know its a risk. What if I get some asshole who shuts me down?
But the thing is......thats what I want. I want to sort out the assholes from the nice guys. I dont want to be friends with the guy who isnt compassionate or understanding. And being me....is the only way I can find this out. I am evaluating THEM. And I am sure they are evaluating me too. THATS fine......but its also true that assholes will be in love with other assholes and nice people will gravitate to other nice people.

I am NOT to be deterred by the assholes however LOL.....because I know that person is out there. The one who relates....and I make it my misson to find them.

I am learning to pay more attention to myself and it definitely helps. I just go through these moments of insecurity in which I need to vent.

Too true! Venting is Good. I enjoyed your posts and I appreciate you sharing your feelings.

Hey, how are things going for (the two of) you?