The problem with "normal" relationships (trigger)

This is something I realized today when I was sort of depressed.

It is the nature of my disorder to be attached and to obsess. Whether or not it is a bad quality I do not question; it is simply who I am.

I realized today that, unlike my ideal fantasy about a perfect relationship, the volume of my affection will never be mutual. There will never be someone who feels like they need me like I feel that I need them; there will never be someone who feels a little worse every moment I am gone because no one will depend on me like I do them.

ASDFJK THANK YOU! That's exactly what I have been thinking for a while. I just couldn't put it to words, I guess.

It sucks, doesn't it? I mean, you love somebody so much, and you'd do anything for them, but no matter how much you love them, no matter how much you sacrifice yourself for them, no matter how much you trust them...they can never do the same for you. For me, I just don't get it. How can you not love me after all I've done for you? How can you not see that I'm living to die for your love? Those are questions that I want to ask my friend, who just went through this with me. It's something I don't get...something I'm working on, too. I just don't know that I'll ever understand any other way of thinking.

I know I'm not much help, but I do understand...

Very much relate to this.

However, for me, the "love" I feel for my obsessions is not real, nor is it fair. It's a very self-centered idealization intended to shore up my own unconscious feelings of grandiosity and quell the ceaseless self-doubt in my conscious mind. My mind makes no distinction between self and object. How is it fair to expect someone else to "be" me?

That's not real love. I don't know what real love is but it's certainly not that. My love is unfair. It places an expectation, not only of perfection, but of an abdication of identity, on someone else, solely for my benefit. The fact that they can't reciprocate the perverse worship I bestow upon them isn't a sign of their weakness; it's a sign of mine.

And yet, despite my academic understanding of this selfishness, the burn of betrayal is felt no less sharply. Why didn't she wait for me? How could she hurt me so deeply when I loved her so much? And then lots of swear words.

doppelgangers...everywhere. must. leave. asaps.

yes to all of that X 4549449598498548548584 +1

I guess that's why all of my serious relationships have been with people as disordered as I am... obsessive and needy. And probably why they always threaten suicide when I tell them I'm leaving.

Can't win.

Agree too all of this actually going through it all right now.
Letha-I completely know what you mean i do the same thing and confuse that as love. My ex showed signs of borderline and together we were insane but amazing it was prolly the worst relationship I've ever had but because he was as needy and insecure as i was i thrived on it and still at times miss it and idolize it. Sad i know but to me that was love

I say I need people to "be me" to empathise, but this is more along the lines of just being able to achieve any sort of empathy than needing people in relationships to "be me" in a relationship sense I think. One of the things that has happened to me in the past was having friends who would try to "be me" in some respects, but one thing this taught me was that the people i'd often attract didn't give me what I wanted out of the friendship because they were only trying to be me. Its also one of the things that often put me off having relationships with them - on one level I could sort of come close to some sort of empathy, but I wouldn't be able to respect them because while they'd give me something I wanted, I'd see them only trying to be me, and would see that as weak in some respects.

One of the things that has attracted me to people has been that at some level, their own choices of actions, thoughts, imagination etc shine through, including being assertive and not setting themselves up to take $#%^ from me (though some odd ways of doing this at times, lol) and even if these things have been done in some slightly twisted ways at times.

"Needing people to be me" is less to do with relationships and more to do with empathy (not to do with them being exactly like me or something, something more perceptual/symbolic than that.) something to do with things that are not relationships, that offer me entertainment etc, but at some point I realised when people around me are trying to be me, I'm isolated within my own perception and viewpoints and not gaining anything out of those interactions in relation to the real world. If I want to pull my head out of my arse, it benefits me to interact with all sorts of people, even when some of these people bore me. lol.

I have been known to idealise and be obsessive but I don't go in for the conflict within-relationship in the same way. The divides I've found have been closer to things like the other person not being able to do the "2 of us against the world" mentality and stuff like that, while I could easily make half of the next bonnie & clyde, (lol) I've found other people have gone in for conflict within the relationship instead of getting together in interacting with that conflict outside of it and elsewhere. I also realise because you can't cook two lobsters in the same pot, I'm unlikely to ever find I can both respect someone enough to want any sort of relationship with them, and for them to want to fall in with whatever. So I realised I have to compromise, and what I think I need or want will not bring me what I need or want.

I guess there's an incompatibility for me with anyone falling in with whatever and with me being able to find I can actually relate, so I either end up not dating people because they bore me to death & sicken me, lol or I end up dating them and they act in ways which make things difficult for the relationship. Not hard to realise I want people who are not just going to go along with everything, even if they have issues with identity or self-esteem. Unfortunately when people are far from healthy that means drama, and if people are too close to healthy, its difficult to relate when you're not.

I never found what I thought I wanted that way, because on one hand I wanted a person who (in my perception not their own) reflected enough strength for me to respect them and on the other hand I expected/wanted to have everything my way. I've learned to realise if I want a partner I respect, I have to learn to compromise and treat them as I would treat myself in their own right as both separate and equal. Otherwise I should take to dating pathetic sycophants who I don't fancy, which isn't going to happen.

The downside is, when I am able to come close enough to understanding another person etc, they are usually so ######6 crazy they're not capable of having a normal relationship... I probably am also not attracted to other people who are exactly like me in the craziness stakes, and even if I was most won't learn compromise, because choosing partners you can actually respect is also a choice, most will choose to date pathetic sycophants because it doesn't require compromise. By pathetic I'm not talking about neediness, neediness/obsession is more idealisation stuff and I've been able to relate to an extent, that while I'm "secure in myself" aka clueless and unaffected, lol e.g. about identity or self-esteem, I can obsess and idealise - ? because there is something that I need on some level that isn't just there in me ? - and as soon as you can idealise, neediness [need attached to relationship or other person] is also possible and makes sense.

I'm sure there is something unhealthy that goes on with how I've tended to relate to others, but when it comes to relationships, interestingly I actually go for people who don't enable some of that because I can't respect people who do. There is probably also something else more complex going on with me and how I relate to other people than I realise, (in some senses there must be,) but I don't honestly know and struggle to percieve what or how.

Mavet wrote:I realized today that, unlike my ideal fantasy about a perfect relationship, the volume of my affection will never be mutual. There will never be someone who feels like they need me like I feel that I need them; there will never be someone who feels a little worse every moment I am gone because no one will depend on me like I do them.

Well you're making judgments by using never, but in all honesty, what you're saying is probably true. If you haven't taken dbt it's something you may want to consider, because I think you could find it really helpful with your perceptions. I think the fact that you're aware of this is a good thing, and a step in the right direction. Your judgments are based on your perception, when in reality the person may feel a similar way towards you, they just have a different way of showing it. I think a few things.. 1. we have to be careful not to idealize a person or situation, and be mindful or remind ourselves of this from the very start. 2. be mindful of the fact how you show someone love or affection is how you show it..How they show it might be completely different.. It doesn't mean they don't need you just as bad or love you any less.. it may just mean they have a different way of showing it.

it's weird how kats always the top and I'm always the bottom.. lol That shouldn't be interpreted to mean I'm submissive though..lol miss yah!!

Wow I really identify with you. In fact what attracted me to my current boyfriend was the fact that he was kind of obsessed with me. He has Asperger's Syndrome so uhh we're quite a pair. I'm pretty confusing to him to say the least! But anyways (if you don't know) people with asperger's tend to get obsessed/focused with things or people for periods of time. So while he pursued me and it was like everything I did was perfect to him. He put me up on a pedestal and it was intoxicating for me. Unfortunately, his focus shifted months into our relationship and while he still loves me he isn't the way he used to be.

When he lived and breathed me it was amazing and terrifying for me at the same time. I kept thinking that that's what it must be like to be with me.

I've yelled at him and told him he shouldn't date girls like me and he says that "normal" girls get scared off by all the attention. I feel him on that

i identify with this post so much. it was so disconcerting to realize that my feelings weren't 'love' like i thought they were. it wasn't love that i was feeling and so mad about not getting, it was this selfish need for them to need me just for the sake of it, the control and the power i felt in it. it was like they were propping up my ego and sense of self, and when i felt like they werent needing me like i needed them, i was furious and angry. once i came to the realization, those feelings and behaviours became repulsive to me and while i haven't stopped completely, i can usually recognize them for what they are. the problem is, without them, everything seems so boring and colourless. it's almost like actual reciprocal affection in a healthy way is dull because it isn't maddening and all consuming. so now my world has gone from being on fire, which was exciting, but devastating, to drab.