Getting Rid of The Bad Poss Trigger

by **Sharkmouse** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:29 am

Hi all,
I have a BPD friend and I wanted to share some thoughts and hopefully you will share some of your insights about this with me.

I had not seen my friend since high school and had no clue about BPD back then. We hooked up again and I knew immediately that something was very off. I had never had any experience with BPD before in my life.....so I think part of me was in the middle of it feelin like I was kinda floppin around on a trampoline and the other part of me was completely trying to figure out what was goin on in my friends head.

Somehow with him anyway, and I dont know if this is common with all BPDs or just him, but with him I saw this stark contrast between good and bad.

It was over everything in our lives......and I was tryin to figure out......how come I dont have this?

One day it hit me.

This seemed to be all about conflict and him wanting to be good enough to make others happy so they would stay in his life.

It seemed like he thought....if he could escape conflict.....then everything would STAY GOOD....and he in turn would be happy!

What is so strange about this is that I dont run from conflict when it arises....I go more toward it....like by asking the person who is upset why they are upset or what do they need to feel better.

Also when I am angry at someone. I dont hold it in.

I think he would get mad and hold it in. He would hold it in because I think he felt if he told me, then I would get angry back and leave. So he would hold it in hold it in and then explode!

After a while I came to see.....that bad feelings seemed to scare him sortof.

I am not afraid of them. The whole thing was becoming fascinating to me!

Why was he afraid to be angry and show it?

I came to think he needed approval from people. If others approved of him. He could tell himself , I AM GOOD! And feel good. But if someone showed disapproval. He ran away and if he felt angry to them, he held it in until he would burst for fear I would leave.

To me bad feelings are like solving a math problem. A teacher gives me a problem and says ok....you have a bad and you have to turn it into a good.

The bad is I want him to stay home with me.
He wants to play golf.

Oh my god. This looks impossible doesnt it?

I think thats what he thought too! lol

The thing I noticed about conflict is this: each person has a GOOD reason for wanting what they want. But the only way to find that GOOD reason is to ask the question WHY??

Why I want him to stay home? Cuz I feel less important if he chooses golf over me. I traveled a long way to see him and I need to know he loves me.

Awwww I need to feel important and loved. Thats not bad. Everyone needs that!

After a time with him I came to know he might need things that he could not verbalize.

So I spoke for him. I said you feel if you say no to your friends they might leave you and then you will have no one. He needs to know his friends wont leave if he says no to them.

Being afraid is not bad. He wants to keep his friends! That is not bad either!

Already we have good reasons for the BAD conflict.

So the solution? How can I feel loved and he keep his friends?

Now these 2 bad things have almost nothing to do with golf.

He can tell me I am important and loved and he will be back and blah blah.
And now since I know he is scared and I dont want that I would push him out the door!

Or if he got brave at some point he could renegotiate with his friends.
Like if they ask him to play golf and he needs to say no, ( what if he needed to say no for his own reason for example like he had a doctors appointment!??)
He could say.....I love playing golf with you, but that is a bad time for me.....what about Sunday instead or Mon ect....

My friend did not ever seem to know how to turn a bad into a good like this.
It was like as soon as he FELT bad. He ran. He never stayed long enough to ask why so he could get to the good. He also had a hard time thinking when his BAD feelings were so strong.

So does this sound familiar or am I barking up wrong trees? Any help would be appreciated

LOL its not about golf.

Disappointed he doesnt like confrontation. Not exactly, more like disappointed he doesnt know how to see that if he feels bad about something, it doesnt mean he IS bad. And just because I feel bad about something doesnt mean I am bad.
I dont know anyone who likes confrontation.
But what I do know is you cant have love without confrontation.

If everything is good all the time. Who cares?
I mean it takes nothing to be happy in good situations.
It takes no effort, no one has to consider anyone elses feelings, no one has to figure out a way to make everyone happy. It all sounds fine and dandy but the reality of all good all the time is everyone would have to be a robot. Everyone would have to be identical in every way emotionally for everything to be good all the time. Everyone would have to all want the same drink. Want to be in the same place, What to be watching the same entertainment. Life would have no variety at all on the surface but also emotionally, different depths of love would not exist. The test of love is through adversity or conflict of some kind.
We would all enjoy everyone and everything because nothing ever happens to test anyones loyalty to one another. Nothing happens to test their real LOVE of one another.
Basically everyone would be happy. But everyone would be identical. Confrontation exists because we are different.
Love is being wanted or needed despite these differences.

So when he told me I have never felt loved. I dont believe I am loved. I am saying I know why. He is running from conflict.

Its not fun. No one likes it. But it exists. You cant avoid it. He tries. But why? Its like he doesnt seem to know he is actually running from love.

Conflict is 2 people putting themselves out there
One saying this is me
The other saying this is me
The differences seem too hard to overcome sometimes
But its possible to have the differences and stay connected only because of love.
If you run away from conflict...its like saying.....I dont want anything different then what I have.
But he has no love!
It would be like a world where we all only eat pizza. If someone suddenly shows up with ice cream. All of a sudden all hell breaks lose. Now we have a choice.
His way he would run from ice cream. Never even try it.
My way.....we have pizza AND ice cream. MORE More good. More good all because someone dared to challenge the notion that pizza is the best.

by **wineaux** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:22 am

thanks for the clarification, i'm going to do my best to try and break this down for you from the perspective of someone with BPD. we have different thoughts, tendencies, reactions, emotions, feelings...and they are not of the 'norm' so they are not as easily understood or accepted.

Disappointed he doesnt like confrontation. Not exactly, more like disappointed he doesnt know how to see that if he feels bad about something, it doesnt mean he IS bad. And just because I feel bad about something doesnt mean I am bad. I dont know anyone who likes confrontation.

feeling "bad" is a core issue for those of us with a BPD. however, bad is not a feeling, but a harsh judgement that we place upon our self. changing our thoughts about a situation will help, but sometimes it's difficult as change is a risk we're not always willing to take.

But what I do know is you can't have love without confrontation.

i'm not sure if i can follow that one. this is not a pwBPD statement.

If everything is good all the time. Who cares? I mean it takes nothing to be happy in good situations.

happy is not something that we have all of the time...even if the situation IS good. we have days, weeks of feeling empty...to the point of being invasible.

no one has to consider anyone elses feelings, no one has to figure out a way to make everyone happy.

all we try and do is consider your feelings and figure out a way to make you happy. sometimes we show it in ways you can't see. sometimes we're indirect, sometimes we're not. we need validation. confrontation (with or without) has nothing to do with this process.

So when he told me I have never felt loved. I dont believe I am loved. I am saying I know why. He is running from conflict.

found from the inkernets: When someone [he] loves is physically gone — even just for a day or only a few hours — the sense of isolation felt by the person with borderline personality disorder often leads to an intense feeling of emptiness and the inability to cope with the absence. Borderline personality disorder symptoms may include a loss of self-worth, and a loved one’s being away — no matter how innocent the reason for it — can trigger feelings of being abandoned and emptiness. it's more because of this than anything else. it's not running from conflict, it's abandonment that we fear.

Its not fun. No one likes it. But it exists. You cant avoid it. He tries. But why? Its like he doesnt seem to know he is actually running from love.

have you asked him about his feelings? are you in a relationship? is it more than just friends? he may be running away from his feelings...sure. and why not? he may not want to take the risk of being abandoned, as we feel it is inevitable.

may i suggest that you do some reading on relationships with pwBPD? it may help you gain some more insight. there are several amazing books out there and there are a few threads here in the forum that list them - 2 off of the top of my head are: "I hate you, don't leave me" and "Walking on Eggshells."

by **Sharkmouse** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:28 am

wineaux wrote:[color=#400080]thanks for the clarification, i'm going to do my best to try and break this down for you from the perspective of someone with BPD. we have different thoughts, tendencies, reactions, emotions, feelings...and they are not of the 'norm' so they are not as easily understood or accepted.

Disappointed he doesnt like confrontation. Not exactly, more like disappointed he doesnt know how to see that if he feels bad about something, it doesnt mean he IS bad. And just because I feel bad about something doesnt mean I am bad. I dont know anyone who likes confrontation.

feeling "bad" is a core issue for those of us with a BPD. however, bad is not a feeling, but a harsh judgement that we place upon our self. changing our thoughts about a situation will help, but sometimes it's difficult as change is a risk we're not always willing to take.

I completely saw this in him. Yes a judgement and the judgement is about his whole being. And when he got angry at me....I felt the full force of this from him. He projected it onto me. See when I judge something to be BAD or GOOD. I am never judging either myself or the other person as being wholey BAD. I DO judge the situation as BAD. So when there is conflict. In my mind I say.....this situation is bad. But I never say I am BAD now or he is bad now. Judging a person is very different then judging a situation. For me to judge the person would be for me, in a sense, to wipe them out completely. Their value as a human being. It would be like me saying ;I am worthless....and because I am, there is no point to anything. So why bother doing, relating, or acting anymore to please ect? On an emotional level myself and the other would cease to exist in a way. A judgement so harsh makes it so. And a lack of existance IS a VOID or emptiness! Not physically but emotionally. I get that!! Thank you!
If someone criticizes me for example, I dont think immediately I am BAD! I think something APPEARS bad. But inside....I know thats not true.....there is some good here, I just need to find it. Since I believe I am good and this other person is good. I try to figure out what the other person wants. I totally get it when you say he is ALWAYS trying to please other people. THAT is what is wrong with him!! He is not responsible for the happiness of others. He is only responsible for his own happiness. I ONLY try to please others when they SAY they are unhappy. This is actually very rare. Think about how many times someone actually comes to you with a criticism or complaint. Even if its 5 times in a day.......the whole rest of the day I presume they are happy, if they are not its not my fault, its their fault because they are supposed to be making themselves happy by choosing things they want or need. And the whole rest of the day I do not have to try to make them happy at all. I focus on making me happy. I am always trying to please myself. THAT is EASY. Because I know me. I know what I want to do or accomplish or what my opinion is. I know what I need.
It would be a great burden on me if I felt it was my job to make everyone in my life happy. I would have no time to consider myself. In addition, it is an impossible task because I cant possibly know what they need. I am not a mindreader. For me to try to be one would make me nutz! I only have one person to please and that is me. When I please me....then I am automatically pleasing others because they do Not have to worry about me. They can focus on pleasing themselves.
He does not. And from what you just said its very clear to me why. He must be very busy thinking about what I need or want. He does not need to do that. I am doing it all the time. I know what makes me happy. The only time I need him to focus on making me happy is when I confront him.
And now that you mention it.....he never confronts me unless he feels overwhelmed.

Here is why I said you cant have love without conflict.
His idea of love is sacrifice. Giving up things, to him ,is love. So he tests me by constantly asking me to give stuff up that makes me happy!!! This is not love and it is not how you test love. The idea of love is that everyone is happy. If I give up something that makes me happy....then I lose. The same is true for him. He is not supposed to give up anything that makes him happy. Things that make you happy are good and you should never have to give them up. If someone loves you...they DONT make you sacrifice anything you need. And rarely do they ask you to sacrifice things you want. Wants and needs are different things. I NEED love. I want an ice cream. Needs are vital. Wants are only a perk.

If you get angry about something, its because you need something or you value something. If you didnt , you wouldnt be angry in the first place. Any time you get angry, its about you, not the other person. Its about your values or something you need, your true self! So he is angry I dont want him to play golf. He thinks to himself "I am bad for wanting to play golf." I have to show her I love her by sacrificing something good! WRONG!! The whole thing is not about golf. It only APPEARS that way. Golf is a want. He doesnt NEED golf to survive. Its about him NEEDING to keep his friends. Needing friends is who he is! Its who everyone is on some level. We all NEED people. He didnt even understand that because he was so busy focusing on me. Its not about Golf either because golf is not bad. Golf is just the situation on the surface which is bringing his need to light; he needs to keep his friends. He also NEEDS me. He is frustrated having to choose. Imagine he stops trying to make me happy or his friends. Stops focusing on us all the time. Instead he focuses on him. By asking himself what do I need? If he did that instead of focusing on us then he could say to me well I need to keep my friends and I need to keep you too....I need some way to do that, the only way I know how is to play golf right now. If he did that he would be posing a difficult problem which to him seems unsolvable. But thats where I come in! Cuz I can help solve it so we both have what we need. I cant do that if I only see the golf but he never informs me what he really needs.

I do focus on me. So I already knew it wasnt about golf for me. I would never ask him to give up golf. I knew it was about me needing to feel loved. He CAN play golf and make me feel loved. He can have friends and make me feel loved. No one has to sacrifice anything here. But only if we find a creative way between us to have both!
His idea of love is someone loses.
But my idea of love is we both win.
When he says to me. I chose golf not you. I feel unloved and I am sacrificing by ignoring my own anger, my need for love. I cant ignore it. I should be able to have it! If I dont know what he needs then I think Golf is more loved then I am. But when he says I need my friends and you. That! That I GET!! Then I no longer feel golf is more loved then me. When he says what he needs suddenly I change cuz I can relate! I need friends too! So I look for a way he can have friends and me. We can both be happy. And if he were focusing on himself ....he would look for a way to have both too. He can renegotiate to play golf on another day or he can REASSURE me that I am loved more then golf but in the moment he is scared about losing friends or me. When he says he has fear! I want to please him even MORE. So I am like play golf. We can have sex later lol!! You see??? If he focused on pleasing him instead of me, he would have known the real issue. Known he needs me and friends, why its important and how to have both! The WHY is what matters because the why is about him. No sacrifice. He wins and so do i. THATS love.

all we try and do is consider your feelings and figure out a way to make you happy. sometimes we show it in ways you can't see. sometimes we're indirect, sometimes we're not. we need validation. confrontation (with or without) has nothing to do with this process.

I have to disagree because confrontation is about anger....some level of anger even if its as slight as frustration or uneasyness. And anger is about the true self. Something you value. That is very important. Its about making you feel happy.....but more then that even.....its about making you feel VALUED, important, alive...VISIBLE. If you ignore anger or conflict.....then you cant know who you are. If you ignore you.....then you cant connect to you and if you cant connect to you then you cant connect to others.
Yes you need validation. My friend needed validation. I would never validated golf being more important then me. Never. No WANT is more important then a need. So when he said I need golf I was like FUK that! lol But when he said I need my friends. THAT is a need. THAT I could and did validate. I need validation too. When I said I needed love.....if he chose golf over my need for love. He is not validating me! In some way he needs to give back. What I needed was purely emotional really. And could be satisfied by reassurance.

found from the inkernets: When someone [he] loves is physically gone — even just for a day or only a few hours — the sense of isolation felt by the person with borderline personality disorder often leads to an intense feeling of emptiness and the inability to cope with the absence. Borderline personality disorder symptoms may include a loss of self-worth, and a loved one’s being away — no matter how innocent the reason for it — can trigger feelings of being abandoned and emptiness. it's more because of this than anything else. it's not running from conflict, it's abandonment that we fear.

Yes this is because he is always trying to please others. When you do that, you have no sense of self. You are defining yourself based on the values of others. Its like you wait for them to tell you who you are...and you ACT that way. If he asked himself. What do I need? What do I like? What do I value? And focused on that and planned out how to get that and acted on that....then he would never feel alone because he would always be living and trying to work at satisfying his own values or self. Others could leave and he would still have himself to love or consider. Also by focusing on others he is not INVESTING in himself. He is putting no time or energy into him. It is all going toward the wants and needs of others. He doesnt have to do that. They are doing that for themselves.

have you asked him about his feelings? are you in a relationship? is it more than just friends? he may be running away from his feelings...sure. and why not? he may not want to take the risk of being abandoned, as we feel it is inevitable.

The way I see this is......a BPD has already abandoned themself. When focusing on trying to make others happy......they have abandoned making themselves happy. And happy is a relative term, what I mean is focusing on getting more of what you value. For example: if you are borderline and get angry because in your past your mother never told you you were adopted. The anger is from betrayal and being lied to. When I feel betrayal I get angry. The opposite of that would be: when someone is loyal to me. I am happy. So you can then presume LOYALTY is a VALUE of the self. When someone lies to me I feel bad. So the opposite is when people are honest I am happy. So you can presume honesty is a value of the self. To build the self one has to know what they value. And then they have to INVEST in those values. We invest in them by ACTING them out or living them. Even if to do so displeases others. He fears displeasing others. You cant do that. Sometimes you have to displease others. But to FEEL self worth you HAVE to please yourself by living your values. Investing in you. So not only do you seek out honest and loyal people, but you become honest and loyal yourself. You do that because the more you act honest and loyal the more you judge yourself as GOOD. Its like leaving a bank deposite in your own account. I tell the truth. BING one for me. I tell the truth again BING one for me. I tell the truth and it makes someone else disappointed BING one for me! As your account grows you FEEL like you are building something good inside. YOU But also you learn that others do not leave. BPDs assume if they invest in them....others will leave the complete opposite is true.

My friend and I encountered an alcoholic separately. He gave him a drink...trying to please him. I did not. Why? Cuz I was trying to please me. I dont want to participate in killing someone. I would feel bad about ME if I did that. Now....the alcoholic in the end.....became more attached to me then him. WHY?? Because the whole exchange was not about ALCOHOL. It was about love. In loving myself....I was indirectly loving the alcoholic. In other words he got the benefit of me loving myself in that I did not help him to ruin his life more. He WAS disappointed I did not give him a drink. In that sense I made him unhappy. But he also saw through my words at the time that my reason was because I was acting out of love. If you love someone you dont do things to hurt them. My friend gave him a drink. Why? Cuz he was only seeing the exchange on the physical level. I was seeing it on the emotional level. So what the alcoholic saw was ...she protects people and he would destroy them. Of course he would trust me more. Who wouldnt!?? I talked to him and was kind. I gave to him emotionally, but physically I would not give him a drink. Told him if he wanted to ruin his life that was his business but I was not going to participate. In the short run when you invest in yourself by doing what makes you happy....others are often disappointed. But in the long term....they see the good behind it. BPDs dont test that much. They fear losinhg others too much to test it. But its true. When you love yourself ....others actually love you more not less. They stay around.

Thank you so much for your insight. I will check out the book

Getting Rid of The Bad Poss Trigger