How do I ask her to be forthcoming about her BPD*TRIGGER*

Hi everyone,

I have been lurking here for a couple of weeks. I recently broke up with a woman I am deeply in love with. I have posted elsewhere on the issues and how I handle things, it was a matter of boundaries, one in particular. It is not necessary to get into details because I don't want to bore.

Up until discovering this forum, I had relied almost exclusively on BPDFamily and another site, where I received some incredibly heart felt advice from a poster who I have seen on this site too. But everything was coming from the perspective of non's. While there was plenty of love behind the feelings of betrayal and anger, it left me without much hope.

However, upon reading so much enlightening information from people who have to live with the effects of BPD day in and day out, a much different light has been shone on things. Unlike Fox News, I am actually fair and balanced. I amass as much information I can and spread it all out before me and then form an opinion. I have no illusions that it would be an easy voyage but I also now see how there is so much beauty and pain living with BPD that far too many make assumptions that the complications are intentional.

I will say this...I feel exceptionally weak complaining when I have a bad day. All of you who must contend with the consequences of BPD, day in and day out should be championed. I will remain appalled at mankind for both it's ignorance and it's attitude that makes anyone with BPD feel that they have to hide.

While I cannot foretell the future, I am angry because BPD has quite possibly robbed me of the woman I love. The question I am about to ask is going to possibly elicit some negative responses because I understand completely that without an official diagnosis or admission from the person in question, I might be accused of having no right to make a diagnosis without proof.

I agree, however, after what has now been four weeks of research and discussions with people who have lived with a SO who suffers from BPD, every single symptom is present. Push/ Pull, Black and white, mood changes in a flash, acting in, projections, and more. I waited a long time to come to the conclusion. Until I hear from her though....which will shortly bring me to my question.

Before I ask I will preface with the following information : She knows I love her, in fact, as is common place, this has only served, at the later stages, to cause her to push away. I have also already been painted black and been accused of causing trust issues on what was nothing more than a silly misjudgment on my part, more of peacock " don't worry I will take care of it honey " rather than flirting or anything of that nature. It has been the default trust issue ever since, despite apologizing til I was blue in the face saying it was stupid and silly. Anyway you get the picture. Full trust is not there.

OK, so my question is if you were afraid that a lover might run if they found out ( she is a very proud lass so it could be denial although she uses all of the language that I have heard here triggers, saying things like " I am not suicidal or anything like that " which I didn't even catch onto until I started researching and I know she has been to therapy so she is self aware ), what approach would make you feel enough comfort to share with your partner ? What could your partner say that might provide enough trust that you wouldn't fear a negative reaction ?

I am beside myself because I have read others who live with BPD, who have shared with their partners. How they express their triggers and try to share. My only desire is to know how to stay away from obvious minefields. I can't if she doesn't tell me, in which case I am driving in the dark.

I would never ask directly or ever identify any specific disorder. I want her just to open up and tell me. Maybe not possible and the answer might just be " sorry...she will tell you if and when she is ready " In which case...

I can't and won't make reference to help because she has to do that, so this isn't a desire to know so that I can say " let's go skipping into therapy ". She is a grown woman. I would love it if she asked me to go, but I am no " savior ".

Since finding out, I had completely calmed ( to as much a degree as a novice can ) to many events, but should we get to the third chapter ( yes second break up, this time my call even though she turned it around on me and said goodbye..I have since reached out by mail, so we shall see ), I need to try and get this out so we can open things up. I may not get my dream but...one can still dream.

Thank you all for your kindness.

Hi Process!

Welcome to forum! We're glad to have an understanding SO like you out there. That's always appreciated around here.

I know that you feel that BPD "robbed" you of your beloved girlfriend, but please remember that although we all have this disorder here, we are STILL required to take responsibility for our actions, just like any other person.

I am sorry that you've lost her, but I feel that you need to also understand that you cannot diagnose her, force her to "come out" with a diagnosis, nor can you force her to go to therapy and change because you want her to, or see it being a possibility.

Therapy can only work for us if we are committed, and willing to change. Sometimes these things don't happen for a long time, and sometimes they never do. You can only hope to make a suggestion, and that she would WANT to take that advice.

Otherwise, unfortunately, you can only be responsible for ultimately what YOU and ONLY you, can do.

I do feel for you, and **hugs** to you!

Welcome!

AMP

TheProcess wrote:Unlike Fox News, I am actually fair and balanced.

Okay, this made me me laugh!

I will say this...I feel exceptionally weak complaining when I have a bad day. All of you who must contend with the consequences of BPD, day in and day out should be championed. I will remain appalled at mankind for both it's ignorance and it's attitude that makes anyone with BPD feel that they have to hide.

We don't feel weak when we complain, per se. We feel normal...well, normal for us, anyway. We don't necessarily state the real reason why we're feeling like we do, but if we kept it all in, we'd explode in a week. It often manifests itself in other ways, such as self-destructive behaviour (drinking, smoking, driving too fast) or self-injury (cutting, burning, etc.). So while it's not always verbal, it does often get out.

OK, so my question is if you were afraid that a lover might run if they found out ( she is a very proud lass so it could be denial although she uses all of the language that I have heard here triggers, saying things like " I am not suicidal or anything like that " which I didn't even catch onto until I started researching and I know she has been to therapy so she is self aware ), what approach would make you feel enough comfort to share with your partner ? What could your partner say that might provide enough trust that you wouldn't fear a negative reaction ?

To clarify: your question is "as a person with BPD, how would you tell your lover that you have BPD and what could they say to you to show trust and prove that a negative reaction is not forthcoming from them?" Is that correct?

If so, here's my answer.

If I decided that I wanted to tell someone, I'd agonize over it for weeks. I'd lose a ton of sleep, probably throw up once or twice and just generally be off my game, thinking about it. At this point, she'd probably have noticed that I'm acting like an insomniac in chemo, and ask what's wrong. Sooner or later, I'd have to answer her. "Nothing's wrong" only works for so long.

I'd just sit her down, tell her what it is, remind her that I'm still the same guy that I always was, and then proceed to agonize over everything she says afterwards, afraid that she now sees me as some monster and doesn't want to be anywhere near me. When I say "afterwards", I don't mean just for the duration of that conversation. It'll take weeks before I'm beyond that stage. During that time, I'd probably curse my medication, because I could REALLY use a good stiff drink about then, but with the meds I'm on, I can't.

During the next few weeks, I'd become more paranoid than a meth junkie. If I thought that she was calling me less frequently than she used to, she must be leaving me. If she was calling me more often, then she was worried I'd do something extreme (like attempt suicide) and she was now moving from a lover to a therapist, so she'd see me as more of a patient than a lover - again, she's getting ready to leave. All she could do reassure me is to just be there with me, preferably with lots of hugging and kissing. As un-guy-ish as it may sound, I'm all about the cuddling. That's the one thing that would make me feel confident that she still loved me. Of course, once she left, the fears would come storming back, but at least I'd get some time of comfort and happiness.

I am beside myself because I have read others who live with BPD, who have shared with their partners. How they express their triggers and try to share. My only desire is to know how to stay away from obvious minefields. I can't if she doesn't tell me, in which case I am driving in the dark.

Triggers are funny things. There are some that are easy enough (like discussing suicide or child abuse), but many are transient and very conditional; conditional on how we happen to feel that day. Some days, a little baby on the bus (in a stroller, obviously) makes me smile and make goofy faces at the kid. Other days, it crashes me right out, knowing that I don't have, and possibly never will have kids of my own. So while we would love nothing more than to say "my triggers are...", we can't because really, even we don't always know what they are at that moment!

I would never ask directly or ever identify any specific disorder. I want her just to open up and tell me. Maybe not possible and the answer might just be " sorry...she will tell you if and when she is ready " In which case...

I can't and won't make reference to help because she has to do that, so this isn't a desire to know so that I can say " let's go skipping into therapy ". She is a grown woman. I would love it if she asked me to go, but I am no " savior ".

She won't. There are two factors at play, societal standards and BPD mindset.

Society frowns on people who say that they need help, particularly when that help is about their own life. Saying to you that I need help implies that I cannot control myself, that I've failed even in being me. It's a hard thing to do. Plus, people with mental illnesses are still pariahs in Western society. Admitting such a thing for anyone is a very difficult step to take.

Also, you have to remember the mindset of a person with BPD. We cling to identities, fervently. If a pwBPD thinks they're a non, they'll cling to that identity like it was the edge of a cliff. Asking for help means admitting that we're different and thus, we're not what we thought we were. It would be like you having to wake up one day and declare "I'm not a man, like I thought all these years. I'm really a woman!" Yes, that sounds drastic, but that's how tightly we hold onto our perception of what we are, and stripping that away is downright painful.

Hope I answered your questions!

Hi Miss Ali,

Thank you for your response, for recognizing that my position is one that come from the heart and finally for your kindness in trying to soothe my loss.

I expected there to be a reaction to my taking the liberty of diagnosing another person, as someone who has no professional background whatsoever.

As mentioned I have labored long and hard on this and remain uncertain of what my exgf experiences are. So even now I am not in any position to even come close to confirming anything. What I did know was that she did confirm that she suffers from OCD ( I suspect ROCD ) and Depression. These were only mentioned in passing and, at the time, not having any understanding whatsoever of the hardships one faces with just these two disorders, I actually just let them go. It wasn't until things got quite destabilized for me did it dawn on me to actually dig. What I found, just on these two disorders squeezed my heart but good. To the point where I actually wrote to a very close friend who had lived her entire childhood and adult life with depression ( now confirmed Bi-Polar ) and gave one of the deepest apologies I ever have for sometimes not exercising as much patience as I could have as we were growing up. I was always there for her but I admit to sometimes not being able to cope. I just didn't understand the depth or how a disorder lives as part of a person. How it effects their day to day existence, that it isn't something that one can switch off and so on.

I digress. Back to my exgf. I have labored over material on both of OCD and Depression and whil I witnessed all of the symptoms for these there were still symptoms that seemed to go beyond and that didn't fit the mold. Honestly, if she hadn't been open ( for all of the two seconds each time ) on the two above mentioned, I never would have explored for answers. But doing so both changed my life and changed how I started to react, but I didn't get enough time to exercise all of this new found understanding, before she threw a new wrench into things.

A little more background than likely necessary, however, I felt it was important to express that I didn't arrive at BPD on a whim nor do I take any of this lightly.

Beyond all of this though, it is absolutely imperative that I re-iterate that it would not ever be my intention to guide any adult to seek help, not for me, not for us, not for anything. The most beautiful clarity that I have gained from being on this forum and hearing for those who live with BPD, is that you are all bright, intelligent, kind and caring people, who do not need anyone trying to invade their lives with some false sense of charity. This is not who I am. As mentioned in my first post, I do not have a savior complex.

My sole objective in asking the question that I did was the desire to open m exgf, should the chance of reconciliation ever come into play. I may be wrong, but my only goal would be to simply be a loving boyfriend who would be honored to have her trust me enough to share something so deeply personal and maybe relieve the pressure of keeping something this impactful a secret.

I am normally very eloquent and able to clearly define my train of thought, but I admit to having troubles getting this out properly. ( Johnny Blaze has provided a perspective that is very poignant and could very well be the case here but I wanted to explain my previous train of thought ).

In short, my goals are not to play doctor or play savior. I simply believe that if she opened up that it could change the relationship, that she could say " I hate you " and then if and when that turned to love, she could come back and simply talk about it when she was ready. It wouldn't change a thing about how I would react, I simply want her to feel she can come out with things that I know she apologizes for but can never explain.

Again so lost on how to express myself but I hope your getting my drift. I have given counsel to many people in my life because they both trust me and know that I will give them straight answers, but I never render my advice unless they ask me for it. I know that if someone is not seeking help, then they will not listen to anything I say anyway.

My desire to know is also not motivated by a desire to want to coddle or to provide an opportunity to say " oh you poor thing, how about a hug ". This would be insulting and would backfire anyway with my exgf. She had a cold one night and was hacking for an hour and I felt nothing but empathy and offered help " can I make you some tea and honey " or let me run down to the drug store and get something. She felt smothered and got angry at me. She eventually kicked me out of her apt because she couldn't deal with the guilt of keeping me up all night with her coughing. It was not a good night. She called the next day to apologize and said it wasn't me. Hard to take it any other way. Point being, if she did tell me I would not suddenly act sorry for her.

I just want to have an adult conversation and a chance to say " It doesn't change a thing, I love you. I will not interfere or suddenly change anything. If you do something I don't like, I will not use the fact that you shared something this deeply personal against you. In fact, knowing will help me not take everything so personally.

Anyway, unlikely I will ever get the chance to ever see if she might one day be willing to share. So now it is really just for my own information that I am asking these question or discussing all of this.

Rambling I know, sorry !

Now to Johnny B, I am glad I got a laugh out of you

Thank you, as well for your response. Your raising of the identity factor is very enlightening indeed. There is absolutely no question that this lady is very independent and very strong willed. I know that she is self aware, she has talked about therapy and used so much language only used in psychological circles, words that suddenly stood out when I started doing research.

You know how,for whatever reason a word that never meant anything to you suddenly does and suddenly you start hearing it all the time in life. It's like you never knew the word existed until it became relevant to your little world. Well suddenly after doing all of the research I did, all of these words and ideas that she had spoken during our relationships suddenly became relevant to mine.

This leads me to believe she is self aware. Who would use so much language relevant only to the world of psychology if they hadn't been immersed in that world since long ago ? The conclusion is that one is either a professional or one who has had to live the battle themselves.

The question is how deep does she allow this self awareness to go ? Does it only reach as far back as OCD ( as mentioned admitted ) or does she recognize how she can switch from being loving for an hour and suddenly go stone cold, as something else ? Who knows.

Your example of someone who suffers a disorder convincing themselves that they are a " non " is thought provoking and I am smart enough to appreciate that this could also occur in degrees. This could explain why she never brought anything out into the open.

I will likely never know. While I heard Miss Ali loud and clear that everyone is responsible for their actions, it is difficult for me to reconcile this with the fact that I read so many outcries, on this board, from people who are besides themselves and more for behaviors that spun out of them and that they couldn't control. Yes one always has to own their actions, but if one cannot harness emotions one deserves more understanding then would be given to a " non " who is just being a jerk. It is not the same thing at all.

Up until reading this forum, I was not able to process the possibility that my exgf might simply lose her emotional connection to me without any proactive process whatsoever. That my simply not being there with her could cause uncontrollable abandonment fears and worse a completely numb feeling towards me as though I was simply person of no real consequence in her life. In my process, this last week, since our break up, I have felt some of this myself, as do all non's I believe. The one minute being angry and feeling no connection and the next being very sad and missing the person in question, but this only happens when in mourning. When in the midst of the relationship, my feelings never waiver. My love for her, whether she is with me or not, is stable and only goes up. Never have I ever felt a sudden detachment. With someone who suffers from BPD, the emotional fluctuations can go from zero to hero and back down to zero in time frames that I could not fathom. I cannot even begin to imagine the toll this must take or worse how much it must spin one around like a top.

This epiphany makes me think to how frustrated I got when she would call me and would sound like I was just some person she met yesterday and then a couple of hours later I would receive an email filled with words of affection. I have to say that even with this knowledge it is still very difficult to imagine processing these dramatic mood swings. Because the voice is the same and when one spends their entire life dealing with mankind, one is programmed to read emotions and tone as being exactly what is trying to be conveyed by the person delivering the message. In the case of someone with BPD, the message is being conveyed the way that they feel at that exact moment, but is not necessarily how they would feel if their emotions were regulated. Again processing this, as a non, in the midst of while it is happening likely requires incredible training. But I know that, in difference to before I knew any of this, I remember the few times we were together after our first break where she went from cuddling me to squeezed into the corner of the couch, as though she had just found out that I had the plague and my not taking it personally. I didn't freak out inside or change my demeanor one bit and half an hour later she got up from the couch walked out onto her balcony and said " I love hanging out with you ". Before the knowledge I remember being completely floored when things like this would happen. I won't lie, it messed with me big time, especially as someone who has a very keen ability to read people.

Again I am rambling, but I wanted you both to know that the origins of my desires are very well thought out and very rational.

Ultimately it is not so much empathy but respect I feel for everyone that must endure the consequences of these PD on a daily basis. I have cried thinking that my exgf and others go through this pain. I cannot lie that I wish I could make it all better and do get angry that so many misunderstand and judge. I am not going to run out and buy tights and and a cape with PD on it, so that I can sing " Here I am to save the day " but knowing what I do now has had a dramatic and very positive impact on my life. It is about respect and not sympathy. No one wants pity. Understanding and respect is all I want to offer and the hope for a more open relationship.

Alas I will likely not get that wish. Should there ever be a reconciliation, ultimately she has to both want to and feel the desire to want to tell me.

Thank you both for your kindness in responding.

As to the question of self-awareness, again, it's weird. I can't speak for everyone else, but in my case, I can recognize sadness while it's occurring, but I cannot do the same for rage. When I get angry, I almost dissociate. I refer to it as shark syndrome. You know when a shark goes to bite, just before he does, he rolls his eyes back in his head? That's how I feel.

I feel like I lose contact with myself, and become sheer rage, kinda like that whole Dr. Banner/Incredible Hulk thing. Once it's over, I usually recognize what just happened, but at the time, I don't recognize anything but vengeance.

So to answer your question, she quite possibly doesn't see what she does. Many of us don't.

Johnny, I am sorry I haven't replied sooner have been up to my eyeballs but I do want to respond, because your revelation is very thought provoking. I will respond properly tomorrow. Prior to this, I really cannot thank you enough for staying engaged. I am grateful. Be back soon !

I will tell you about the "little" chain of thoughts, emotions and reactions that went through me when I myself decided to get a diagnosis years and years ago. I cant speak for anyone else with BPD and everyone is different but this is my story.

I was asked why I was there and said that I suspected BPD. I also explained that I kept finding myself in the same situation, over and over, in every relationship.

At the time, I was in awful pain after a breakup gone the way they would usually go (me being dumped and clinging the living whooho's out of them)

I was put through background talk, very curious questions and one of those lovely in depth psychiatric evaluations where they run you through just about everything under the sun, incl ADHD and other letter combinations as well. I was there for near 3 hrs each time. I can honestly say that the only reason I stuck with it during the evaluation, was out of pure curiosity. I was told from the get go that it isnt uncommon for BPD'ers to seek professional help under the circumstances that I was in, neither is it uncommon to start therapy and not continue and I was told how important it was that I continue coming after the evauation as well.

I dont know about his statistics but as far as I go, he was right on both. Once we started to get near diagnosis and I was told that it was more likely than not in fact BPD, I got this sudden " I want to crawl out of my skin feeling" followed by nausea and got out. I never returned!

I am going to share with you a little bit of what that was like for me and why it happened the way it did. I can not explain why I reasoned the way I did. Maybe if I had actually continued the therapy I wouldnt be so clueless about it, but I do atleast remember what it was that rattled me.

In my mind, at the time, in order for me to admit to myself that there was something "wrong " with me, I had to wrap my mind around the fact that others had been "right". I can not enough explain to you exactly how nasty and powerful that thought was, but it was because you see, it was further than me realising that I had screwed up ONE relationship. I had to wrap my mind around perhaps having screwed up several....and how about my relationship with my family? was it my fault or theirs? and WHAT exactly was me and what exactly was them?
I couldnt work that out. All I knew was that it tore open not only how I viewed myself but also others, absolutely everyone and it threw me into confusion where I no longer knew what to think about anything or anyone, so I went back to what I knew, something to grab a hold of and that I could define and that was " No, its not me, its them ". I think there might have been black and white coming into play there as well. Grey were much scarier for me back then than now. Now its like OH, people can be good and bad, all wrapped in one. Then it was more about who was to blame, the whole person, not fractions of them or specific actions. Just all of their being as one good or bad.

So yes, I left and didnt return there.

That worked amazingly well, until next time someone rejected me or broke up with me and whoop, there I was again, wondering.

I recently was told that I no longer fit into the BPD diagnosis and that is without therapy and I may be one of the lucky few who shakes it off bit by bit in time but I am a firm believer in self awareness being key, atleast in my recovery.I simply watch and analyse everything I do and if I cant find the source to something at first glance, be darn sure I will. I made myself my own little experiment and project, I tested myself, I challenged myself, I clawed my demons right in the face and I keep watching to this day.
But therapy? you never would have been able to bring me to therapy, probably not even today. I still have that whole " I cant open up about this, they might think Im CRAZY and Im not CRAZY" thing going on but I'll tell you one thing. Saying " get some therapy, u need help to sort yourself out"would have made me listen more than someone softly coming over, closing in, speaking carefully and addressing the issuee from a more understanding and loving perspective, for one reason and one simple reason alone. If someone had looked me straight in the eye and in some attempt of opening me up and actually being successful ( that being uncomfy enough ) and then mentioned therapy and BPD etc on top of that....Well, it would have been hard enough feeling so close and vulnerable and that would have had me nauseated and crawling out of my skin enough....then I would have pushed the person away to rid of that and every moment after that, when thinking of them, I would have connected them, to how they made me feel at that moment. Do you see what Im getting at? Its like how it made me feel would get connected to that person and if it was an uncomfy feeling, then thinking of that person would make me feel uncomfy.

That was a dramatic example. I am in no way saying that you should be that blunt ( that would not be good probably ) but I guess what Im trying to say is, that atleast for me, a more firm approach when my guard was up but NOT while fighting, would have worked a lot better.
It may not lead to therapy.....but atleast I wouldnt have thrown you into the dark realms of my mind and pushed you away.

I do believe that BPD'ers do want stability and it is hard enough to create that stability on your own. Its like a constant war against not just the world, but mostly yourself and its something that is a bit of a struggle to maintain already. Its like being in a comfort zone and stepping out of that comfortzone rattles you and for you to allow yourself to be rattled, it is best if it happens when youre ready and willing and when you feel brave enough and knowing that it wont throw you out of the stability if you do. Either way you go, youre stuck, right? You dont get better if you dont get rattled a bit but you keep getting rattled if you dont get better. It will continue that way until one of the sides win.
In my case, babysteps helped.
I dont think I would have done it in less years with therapy but who knows, maybe ? I dont know. I cant answer that but I dont think that its all about whether someone is willing or not either. I dont think its that simple. You can be very willing, run to therapy and still be stuck, diagnosis or not. Years in therapy or not.

Answers are important. They give us comfort and help us to be understanding. I can understand why YOU would want to know and I can totally see why that is best for you, but is it at this moment in time, what is best for her and your relationship/ ex relationship? Would you still want her if she never gets a diagnosis? never gets therapy?

Sorry if my reply seems overwhelming. Just a few thoughts
Having all that said. BPD is like this intruiging special interesting species on its own. Half the time, we dont even grasp eachother or ourselves, so dont take it from me. Ask around and gather all info to this big useful info blob:D

Good Luck.Hugs

Did I just misread the whole threadstart? Oooohhh, so sorry. I do that. I dont mean to .

Hope atleast some of it was helpful.

Hi skipped beat,

Thank you so much for your reply and for giving me so much of yourself.

I have to admit to being so lost at the moment with my emotions, largely because I simply don't know whether her pushing me away as she did was motivated by a desire to have me chase. The last text message before the separation was when I didn't return her calls ( first time ever ) and suddenly she was chasing again " really want to chat " it was suddenly like a different person. The following morning I sent my very loving email, saying that without a commitment, I simply couldn't cope with the thoughts, real or imagined, that she might be doing it so she could be free. In the following firestorm that she launched at me, I told her I could deal with a month of silence from her if I knew she was all mine. She does the complete opposite of you, there is no chasing after, no please don't go's nothing. If she had done that, then I would have said, commit and I am yours ! I wish she had done that.

I do know that after the first break in the middle of the 6 weeks ( she broke it off that time ), I sent her a letter and within a week she said " why did you drop it off at my front desk, they always drag their feet, you should have mailed it, I would have gotten it sooner " It felt wonderful because it meant she was waiting for me to reach out. I sent another letter this time too because I needed to explain why I did what I did, that I wanted her but...and I said please don't close the door completely because I am not ready to say there isn't a future for us. I love this woman and I know she cared deeply for me, she said love many times but pulled back from that.

I read so many heartbreaking stories such as yours and it kills me because I worry that all she was doing was trying to push me to chase, but I couldn't if there was even the slightest chance she might be seeing someone else even casually. I won't do that, but was she is so damn proud. When I confronted her about dating she said she had a couple of dates while we were broken off, which was not clarified originally but she got defensive and said " when I see something I like I go for it " It was pure defiance, because she has used language like that before. She was exercising her independence but then 2 seconds later she was lovey dovey. So confusing ! I left it alone and then she further explained that it was during out break. I responded " we weren't together, that is your business. I don't care what happened then " but the seed of mistrust had been planted in me.

Man even now I am so lost.

To the question you were so wonderful to address. You have given me another angle that I was not able to visualize. It really seems like no matter which direction I think about taking it's a no win. My desire to have her tell me was/is not founded on the desire to persuade her to seek therapy. This is not my call to make and I am acutely sensitive to the fact that such a process would mean delving into the kind of emotional pain I couldn't begin to fathom. Your recounting of what you went through has only deepened my understanding of how horrible an experience it is. I would never ever make such a request. With that said though, if she were to have said she wanted to, I would have been there every step of the way to support her.

The one and solitary reason I had this desire to know was in the hopes that it would bring us closer together and break down the wall that I knew existed simply because the only reaction she was able to provide if she did anything rash or unusual was an apology, which she did offer many times. if she lost her temper with me for anything minor, she would say it wasn't me and sorry. This seems to me to be indicative of self awareness.

I also know that she controlled her anger. When we were having one of our long discussions, the subject came up of a few moments during one weekend where I broke some rules of conduct ( stipulated by her ). I backed off on each occasion and ended up just chilling watching TV when she went to bed. She later told me that what she wanted was for me to come in and make love to her. I reminded her of her mood and anger and she said " I controlled myself, you took it too seriously " to which I replied that while I did note that she controlled herself, I knew the kind of anger that was seething in her. I could tell how angry she was. Note that at the time I had no idea about what was really going on. Seeing the person ( not hearing the words ) was very destabilizing. I am hyper sensitive to people's emotional temperature.

My point is that I so wished that she would just explain to me what was really going on in her so that i could say, I understand and am not going anywhere, that I would never use it to explain away anything, but rather that I wanted her to be able to just tell me " I am not feeling well and I would rather you leave me alone tonight or for the next few days " then I would have been able to say " absolutely, if you need me for anything just call, I will be here in a flash ". I so wanted her to know that I wasn't going to judge or push.

You see where I am going. Now with all of that said you have planted a new seed of understanding because I did not think about the " you now know and are therefore simply a reminder of something I hate " This would end up doing the exact opposite of what I would have wanted. Instead of being the understanding, supportive lover, I would become a mirror of her shame.

May I ask, do you believe that these feelings you have when looking inward are founded on society's stupid view of such disorders ? That if people, at large, were not so ignorant and judgmental that people who suffer with BPD might not feel the way they do ? or are these feelings born of internal feelings ?

I said this in my opening question, but it really makes me hurt to think that everyone I have spoken with here and my exgf must face the daily trials of a magnitude I cannot even fathom. It is not pity because as mentioned I believe that the kind of strength that is required to fight every day, but rather total respect and admiration. This is what i feel for my exgf, I just wish I could tell her.

Thank you skipped beat for sharing your story. If I had to be poked and prodded mentally like that, I would never have gone back either. The medical community is as much to blame as society. It saddens me that we are living in 2012 and yet in certain medical areas, it's as if we are still in the middle ages.

Thank you again for taking the time to provide me with such valuable insight. I remain completely confused about how to view my situation but then that is life.

Bonne nuit!

-- Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:52 pm --

I often wonder if she even thinks of me.

Im going to answer to a few sections of your email and hope that it provides some sort of insight.

I dont know how to answer to the first section of your post but I will try. She sounds a lot like my ex, he does that and in some sort of way, I kinda understand it, although I dont do it myself. If that makes any sense. Before I develop that any further Id like to mention something else that I find important. It is something that I have noticed both in my past behaviour and his and that I can not fully explain. Its like this something that may just have to be acceped as is ( unless someone else reading this thread has some insight ). I would be highly surprised if no other BPD's recognize this.

In a situation where I wanted something SO badly, a reaction, a feeling, a response, I would go into this " desperate mode " in order to get it BUT once I got it....Nothing ! Its like this nasty numbness taking over and all of a sudden, al the previous desperate cravings of getting what I wanted were gone BUT, having that said, I didnt feel fulfilled. Just satisfied. Like " Oh, I got what I wanted but oh, it wasnt so exciting, it didnt make me super happy, it just NUMBED me " and then Id let it go, just like that and not contact the person again for the rest of the night or even for days. However long that satisfaction lasted.

Ive seen my ex do this as well and sometimes it comes across as punishment for not "getting to it " quickly enough, and sometimes it comes across as him having got what he wanted and he is satisfied with that, all while Im left wondering what just happened.

An example : I send ex emails to ask how he is doing. He replies and says he has spent the entire day at the police station. Naturally I wonder what has happened and am worried.~Silence~
Goal accomplished for him. There is no need for him to reply, as he already got what he wanted out of it. I would still be left wondering and worried but he....he probably went on and off into "numb land "

ITS LIKE ITS THIS SELF DESTRUCTIVE WAY OF GETTING THE PAIN OUT AND YOURE THE TARGET!!!
once accomplished, youre out baby. You healed me, I got what I wanted from you. The end.
Its self desctructive but I cant explain it.

Nothing more, nothing less. Ive actually wondered if this is a tad histrionic as well but they seem to overlap so much I get confused.

My point with this is. Dont allow yourself to go too far into depth analyzing the details on specific events. Sometimes, it is simply about a reaction, the reaction is comforting. Once the reaction has been and happened, incident is over.

Like I said, I am still curious of exactly WHY this happens, I am. The only thing I can think of, that I get out of it, is a sense of control. It makes me feel good, it makes him feel good to do it and its selfish.Its about attention. You show me that you care, that you lov me, thus you have fulfilled my need. Thank you *off u go*.Its onesided craving for something deeper.

Im not going to analyze it any further but its a thought and something that can probably explain a lot of odd behaviour.

If I were you, Id put the " pushed me to chase" aside for a moment. Its a bit more complex than how it appears.

It very well may be that she is testing you to see how much crap you will put up with to try your undying love, sure....
In my own experience however, it was about a general dissatisfaction and having someone push my triggers that made me back off. At that moment, the defense mechanisms were running on such a high that I didnt even take notice of what I was feeling much until the person in question backed off a bit much and I wondered what just happened and was sucked back in ( probably abandonment fear ) but it wasnt until later, much later, that I would justify it for myself and say " Oh, maybe I just did that to test them and see how much they would put up with " but I have to be honest and say that while I do believe testing does happen to some extent, I still believe that the more subcouncious triggers and reactions, are a much bigger threat.
I think BPD'ers know whats up, they see it happen but at the time they may not be able to explain it fully or stop it. Its like that subcouncious takes over. There may not necessarily be much thought or planning or testing behind it.

Think about it, to counciously test someone, you have to know exactly what youre doing, or otherwise you arent really testing them, not on purpose anyway.
I would assume for now, that the reactions are automatic repsonse to triggers if she is BPD and not a test. Testing is more gameplaying and I dont believe that borderlines gameplay at that level. It may appear that way, why in fact, it is more an emotional reaction to events taking place.

I believe its important to anyone who knows someone with bpd to sort this one ut first. Its not gameplaying. It goes deeper.

What strikes me the most about your post is her general " coldness" to your feelings and it appears to be as if she is the one very much in control over your relationship / friendship...
You love her sure, but she is the one deciding in which direction it goes.
STOP THAT!

A lot of people think that boundaries is about shouting out your right and putting your foot down, but boundaries can just as much be about not allowing yourself to become a part of the play. You dont have to participate in behaviour that you do not wish to see from her. You can think, feel and reflect but you dont have to REACT to it. Minimize the reactions. Not every thought or feeling needs a reaction. If you see unwanted behaviour, dont participate in it. Dont jump on the rollercoaster ride.

If she gets angry, dont jump on the rollercoaster. If she pushes you away, dont run after.
This is complex, it is but there are a ton of ways you can show that you care and still set boundaries and unfortunately, I think its the only thing that will work.

I personally believe that no contact can be healthy if youre moving on or for a shorter period of time, but if you still want to be with someone, "space " is probably better.
You can ask for your space too, you know ...and without rejecting.
Is she acting weird today? Dont react to it, go live your life, try another day. Does she get upset over it? Too bad. You love her, you let her know and you will talk to her in a couple of days. End of story. If she punishes you for that, you dont have to react to that either. You love her, you dont listen to that tone, you will talk to her in a few days

Self awareness for me isnt so much offering an apology, but knowing WHY you offer it, why you did what you did and changing the pattern. BPD's arent dumbutts, they know that they are doing wrong. It doesnt mean they know how to correct the wrong. Knowing what it is, what the triggers are and what to do about it to prevent it in the future and trying very hard for that result, is selfawareness.

I can punch you in the stomach and apologize and do it again 3 days later and apologize again, but Im still punching you arent I? Unless there is an explanation to the apology, I wouldnt be so softhearted about it.

You wish that she would explain what is going on, but you need to understand, that unless she knows how to explain it to herself, she will not be able to explain it to you. I used to try that and Id come up with new theories every day and just as I thought I knew and "got it " a better theory would come along. Its confusion at its best.You are asking someone who has no strong sense of self or identity to explain herself while she herself may be feeling shattered to all she is and knows how to explain none of it.

Most likely, at this point, you may very well have to settle for " I am not feeling well and would rather you leave me alone tonight " and I think its absolutely awesome how you brought that up because I think its a great idea. If you can communicate that to her, that would be awesome.
For her to say that though, THAT is self awareness.
That worked well for me and my ex...sometimes.

I, just like you, would often just want to know that he would be back " I can handle the drama, as long as you can give me stability in knowing youll be back". Think about it. Its a contradiction.
Its like saying, I can handle you giving me instability as long as you give me stability. There's your bpd catch 22. Delivered. It doesnt work very often.


About your last question there. I have always been very strong minded and walked my own way. Ive never cared what others think of "crazy" vbut rather of how I MYSELF think of crazy. It was more about how I felt about myself, rather than how the world felt about me.

Hope this answers some of your questions and I hope it didnt come across so harsh. I have a way about writing that can be blunt and sometimes I dont see the forest cause all the trees are in my darn way.

I wouldnt give up hope as long as there is some. Im hardheaded that way

-- Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:06 pm --

Holy whoohoo, that got long. Sorry.

Another thing...

Dont read yourself blind in the threads.

A lot of times people with BPD do think about you and just dont show it and whatever "black" their thinking is usually a reflection of what goes on inside themseves and is a defense.

I personally believe that wears off after a while.




Edit. Oh I forgot. about the first thing I wrote. How someone can appear "off" and cold like nothing.
It can go further than that too and not necessarily be about splitting someone black. When I had been put under too much pressure or pain ( not necessarily from my partner, perhaps just myself ) and I had enough, Id to a little flip over and start acting mildly hysterical, like Id PLAY numb and off and didnt feel much of anything, but it would come across as a bit...bizzare.
My ex actually did that to me today. He picked up the phone, put it down on the table and started whisteling while continuing his work, all while I was on the phone upset.

Welcome to the crazy world.
Thats another thing I cant explain but Ive done it.
It made me giggle in recognition today when he did it actually, like a relief or some sort of "phew, I recognize this" but can I explain it ? Nope.