BPD tratment and artistic inspiration/personality

Hi,

I need some help and opinions as I have a pretty big problem. I was diagnosed with BPD and depression 8 years ago and since have been in therapy with the same therapist (except for the first month I had another therapist) and taking medication every day (not the same drugs all the years but some are). I had severe anorexia and bulimia, self-harmed since childhood, suicidal thoughts and urges, but, except for the last one, stopped everything else (last one happens rarely now). In these 8 years I finaly managed to get well enough and go for what is my life and my joy and my calling and it is art. I finished MA at art academy this year, among best students. My mood swings and intense emotions and perception of things found an outlet in art and it was and is to this day my greatest and only true joy. I am dedicating my life to it. But my therapist constantly tells me that I need to be avarage, ''grey'' and not black and white. She tells me that I missinterpret the word average, but I think she is just being diplomatic. She wants me grey and not borderline intense black and white. Since she started pushing for this, I do feel grey, empty, dull, failure and feeling that I cannot be an artist, that she is taking it away from me in favour of making me''normal''. I even started to have suicidal impulses again. I am angry but feel helpless. I wanted to quit therapy even though I am not nearly ok as I should be if I am quitting (but I can't quit, tried, but can't stand abandonment). There is also no chance of going to another therapist as I do not see the point in it all. I am more normal than most people around me, only it is not ''society prescribed normal''. But I do understand that I still have major difficulties in life that stop me from living the life that I want and need. i can't quit terapy, but feel I will die inside if I stay in it. Does anyone have advice how to approach this (the angry ''I am leaving therapy forever/typical borderline quitting'' was a bad way and just induced countertranseference from therapist)? Also is there anyone who recovered and felt that they lost the way to express what they feel through art(my art is extremely personal, conceptual and autobiographical, not something just decorative)?

Does anyone have advice how to approach this (the angry ''I am leaving therapy forever/typical borderline quitting'' was a bad way and just induced countertranseference from therapist)?

Is it possible your therapist is using/saying average as in "don't put all your eggs in one basket", meaning don't make your life ALL about art and to make time for other things as well? You do say,

I finaly managed to get well enough and go for what is my life and my joy and my calling and it is art.

and

I am dedicating my life to it.

You're saying art is your life. She may be saying.. that's great, be the best you can be at art, but don't make your life ALL about art and forget everything else. Maybe another way of saying it is have a variety to your life. This variety of life would be average, is good, it has NOTHING to do with being an average artist.. Be the greatest f**kin' artist in the world, but have an average life or life that is filled with variety..

I think knowing the answer and understanding her use of the word average may resolve the question your asking.

Also is there anyone who recovered and felt that they lost the way to express what they feel through art(my art is extremely personal, conceptual and autobiographical, not something just decorative)?

This losing your way to express what you feel, I believe, is related to your therapist and her use of the word average. I see nothing wrong with working and dedicating yourself to being the best you can be. It's probably not healthy to sacrifice everything.. for art.

I think getting clarification from your therapist on her use of the word average will potentially resolve this as well.. IF she is saying "be content to be an average artist or to be just ok at art" then I would turn the table, and ask her "if she wants to be an average therapist/just ok or to be the best possible therapist she can be." If she says the best possible therapist than I'd want her to explain why you can't be the best possible artist that you can.

Hi
thanks for quick reply!!
Well I did mention to my therapist that the word avarege upsets me and makes me feel like I'm dying, but she said she insists on that particular word for that exact reason. We agreed that we do not see the word having the same meaning for us, but she does insist that I see her point, but never really explained it to me.

Is it possible your therapist is using/saying average as in "don't put all your eggs in one basket", meaning don't make your life ALL about art and to make time for other things as well?

I do not think she wants to stop me from dedicating my life to art in this extent, she pretty much lets me feel this, as there are a lot of things that make other peoples lives (marriage, family, etc) that I just do not see myself in or being happy with any of those. But you made an interesting point, because as much as I decided to dedicate my life to it, I still think ''oh it is not enough'', and reading your reply I see how extremely I want to dedicate my life to it.

I think the best solution/advice/theory/insight for me is this:

Maybe another way of saying it is have a variety to your life. This variety of life would be average, is good, it has NOTHING to do with being an average artist.. Be the greatest f**kin' artist in the world, but have an average life or life that is filled with variety..

I think knowing the answer and understanding her use of the word average may resolve the question your asking.

I think I definately have to resolve the meaning of the word, she said about variety, but more in the sense of character, which is connected to art in my case, and not variety in living personal life, and that is making the confusion!

This losing your way to express what you feel, I believe, is related to your therapist and her use of the word average. I see nothing wrong with working and dedicating yourself to being the best you can be. It's probably not healthy to sacrifice everything.. for art.

I wouldn't sacrifice everything, but would a lot. I do not know about how healthy it is, but it IS the healthiest I've been. So when she says go and try other things to me it seems silly. I tried many things, and I do not like a lot of what the world has to offer that much, and she thinks the world is a nice place. Here we disagree.

I think getting clarification from your therapist on her use of the word average will potentially resolve this as well..

I think definately will talk about all this, and hopefully reach agreement. for me it is all like domino effect: one thing changes (e.g. how i live my personal life), everything else (e.g. art, how I express myself, etc.) falls/follows.

Thank you again!

Glad to help.. Hopefully, you'll check back...

lunargirl wrote:Hi
thanks for quick reply!!
Well I did mention to my therapist that the word avarege upsets me and makes me feel like I'm dying, but she said she insists on that particular word for that exact reason. We agreed that we do not see the word having the same meaning for us, but she does insist that I see her point, but never really explained it to me.

You're welcome! We're alike in that I hate the word average as well. I don't see the point in being average.

I think I definately have to resolve the meaning of the word, she said about variety, but more in the sense of character, which is connected to art in my case, and not variety in living personal life, and that is making the confusion!

Here it's important to figure out how she's using AVERAGE. If she is saying just be content to be an average artist, imo, you need to challenge her... I'd ask her if she's content to be just an ok therapist or does she want to be the best possible therapist she's capable of being. I find it hard to believe that she'd be content to be "just ok". I would think she'd want to be the best possible therapist she could be. If this is the case, I'd want an explanation as to why she feels that she is somehow different than you. You excel at art... Why is it that she thinks it's ok for you to be just average as an artist, when she's not content to be just average as a therapist...

I will mention this.. there is a person in the forum (not gonna mention any names) that fell in love with art like you, and discovered they were extremely good at it. I've seen pictures of the art, they are extremely good, and they've made some REALLY good money at selling some of their pieces. I believe they discovered their talent and passion while in therapy. (sorry for the use of "they" don't wanna use he/she). The point of this is.. if she's thinking you couldn't make a living being an artist then she'd be wrong.

I wouldn't sacrifice everything, but would a lot. I do not know about how healthy it is, but it IS the healthiest I've been. So when she says go and try other things to me it seems silly. I tried many things, and I do not like a lot of what the world has to offer that much, and she thinks the world is a nice place. Here we disagree.

Here you and I agree... the world being a "nice" place is her opinion, and there are many who would disagree with that opinion.

What is healthy? It seems to me that you just described it from your point of view. You're not going to sacrifice everything (healthy), you're keeping your options open and willing to try other things (healthy), you recognize that you're the healthiest you've been (healthy that you recognize this), you found something you're good at and enjoy (healthy). So whatever her idea of healthy is, it is just her opinion. Maybe the majority of people will agree with her opinion, but it's still an opinion and we're not all the same. It seems to me like you described what it is for you, and you should have confidence in that.

Hi again

You're welcome! We're alike in that I hate the word average as well. I don't see the point in being average.

I agree completely, there is no point in being average. Then you just might as well not care about yourself, about your growth, about anything, it is not far from that really.

Here it's important to figure out how she's using AVERAGE. If she is saying just be content to be an average artist, imo, you need to challenge her... I'd ask her if she's content to be just an ok therapist or does she want to be the best possible therapist she's capable of being. I find it hard to believe that she'd be content to be "just ok". I would think she'd want to be the best possible therapist she could be. If this is the case, I'd want an explanation as to why she feels that she is somehow different than you. You excel at art... Why is it that she thinks it's ok for you to be just average as an artist, when she's not content to be just average as a therapist...

I understand the difference between just ok or the best you can be. And how both might be understood as average for different people. It needs to be defined for us, which I will ask my therapist.

I will mention this.. there is a person in the forum (not gonna mention any names) that fell in love with art like you, and discovered they were extremely good at it. I've seen pictures of the art, they are extremely good, and they've made some REALLY good money at selling some of their pieces. I believe they discovered their talent and passion while in therapy. (sorry for the use of "they" don't wanna use he/she). The point of this is.. if she's thinking you couldn't make a living being an artist then she'd be wrong.

It so nice to hear that people can live with their art and when they manage to live from it moneywise it is great too. But to be trully successfull in anything you must not be driven by money, that is how I see it. You lose the essence and the purpose of what you are doing and in the end, end up bad at it, and you lose all. But we all need money, I need it, it IS the world we live in.

Here you and I agree... the world being a "nice" place is her opinion, and there are many who would disagree with that opinion.

This continues to what I wrote, it is the world we live in, and we all see it differently. I just hate when I am told that I refuse to see how nice it is. That is almost insulting. I just do not agree because that is not how I see it. There are wonderfull things in the world, but altogether I wouldn't call it a nice place. At all.

What is healthy? It seems to me that you just described it from your point of view. You're not going to sacrifice everything (healthy), you're keeping your options open and willing to try other things (healthy), you recognize that you're the healthiest you've been (healthy that you recognize this), you found something you're good at and enjoy (healthy). So whatever her idea of healthy is, it is just her opinion. Maybe the majority of people will agree with her opinion, but it's still an opinion and we're not all the same. It seems to me like you described what it is for you, and you should have confidence in that.

This really sounds healthy when I read it now!

Thank you again

lunargirl wrote: My mood swings and intense emotions and perception of things found an outlet in art and it was and is to this day my greatest and only true joy. I am dedicating my life to it.

Also is there anyone who recovered and felt that they lost the way to express what they feel through art(my art is extremely personal, conceptual and autobiographical, not something just decorative)?

I think Cbox offered a lot of great advice. I just wanted to touch on another part of your post that I related to.

It could be black/white thinking.....but it could also be kind of an form of obsession with your art. I don't think this is a bad thing at allto be very passionate about something you love, as long as other areas of your life don't suffer. I think it's fine to prioritise your passion, and if you have a slight obsession for it, it gives you endless motivation and inspiration.....I don't see this as black and white thinking....just finding something you are passionate about and developing it. The best guitarists, writers, painters, whatever....didn't get to be great without a dose of obsession for their craft and practise, practise.

The main issue I wanted to mention, is something I have noticed with my art. My art is fueled by passion, emotion, impulse and a drive and obsession to express these.

I don't know if this is a problem exclusive to me, or if you have/do/will notice it too. As you progress with your therapy.....learn methods of controlling emotions, and controlling impulse control, which are some of the goals of your therapy.....your art can struggle as a byproduct. If your art is fueled by emotions, passions, etc, learning to gain control over these things can cause you to find it harder to really express what you feel through art. As emotions become controlled, there is less of them to feed off for our art. Medication can do this too.....numbing your emotions.....turning down the volume of your feelings. As an artist, these overwhelming bouts of emotions are what fuel art that is derived from huge surges in emotions.

That's not to say that therapy isn't great for helping you to work toward controlling bpd. I have just noticed as I have become very stable and in control of my emotions, my art has lost a little of the chaotic inspired expression of a massive swell of emotions.

I hope it is just me in this situation, and that you don't feel it aswell, but for me, there is directly conflicting outcomes of therapy. I think primary, it's important to be empowered over your emotions and your mental health. But the more they are controlled, there is less occasions where you have a huge well of emotion to tap into and use a muse for art.

This is a conflict I am dealing with now. As my Bpd is controlled and seems to be becoming to a state of remission, my art come less easily.....and certainly the obsessive inspired periods of boundless ideas become rarer as I have become more stable. I'll be blunt, my best art has always be created through periods of tidal wave high emotion, that I've channelled into art. For a while I used alcohol to counteract my medications. I'd drink a few times a week only while painting, which would seemingly counter the meds and bring back the wells of emotion to tap into. It removed inhibition, removed, the dulling effect therapy and medication had over my emotions, and I could once again tap into the well of feelings.
This worked for a while till the drinking became excessive.

I've since quit drinking for a number of weeks as a trial, and have found that it's difficult to dip back into the well, when the raw emotions are more controlled by therapy, and medication.

Getting better with coping and dealing with emotions and impulsiveness is very important in making the other areas of your life healthy. This for me, is a case of conflicting interests. One that I will need to find a way to reconcile. I like being a *healthier* person in relationships, and in mood/emotion regulation. But it conflicts with a very promising art career that relies on these things.

I will need to reach a middle ground where I can be emotionally stable, and impulse controlled in areas outside of art.....but at the same time, not blunt them or *cope* with them too greatly all the time so my art can flourish.

Like you, my art is solely reliant on passion, inspiration, overflowing emotions, and a little obsession. I'd not like a therapist to get you so far in therapy, that you can't tap into these at all.

Now that I have gotten to a stable place with emotions, impulse control, and the eradication of drinking(which would give me a brief period where all of the above came back and I could create my best art).

I'd never give up on therapy, but if your art is so based on passion, expression of overwhelming emotion, and inspiration created through impulse....I'd be mindful to keep an eye on how this affects your art, seeing as it is so important to you.

A lot of people will claim that if you are better from depression, and in remission from bpd, you should be in a healthier mindset to create great art. But much like mine, your art is fueled by emotions, so you don't want to lose touch with these.

If you can find a way to compartmentalise between your art and the rest of your life, where you can control emotions, control impulse in your other areas of life.....but retain strong emotions, passion, a little obsession, and impulsiveness for your art side....then that may be a healthy way for you to achieve your goals.....recover from bpd, but not lose your art.

For me, lately art has been going well....but it lacks the emotionally energy, the impulsive drive to try new things and experiment, and the passion. Some good work has come out lately.....some of my best.....but it has had to be grinded out, and I've gone from working on 5 canvases at once.....to 1 or 2.

For me, I see several paths I can take. My art is fairly unique.....I can't find anything like it on the net....I can't paint another style....my style is unusual....and I think it is fueled from an innate talent for pouring my feelings into my work.....which is therapeutic in itself. Lately as the emotions come under control, I sometimes have to force harder to capture the obsession, overwhelming emotions, and inspiration. It's still going well for now, but it doesn't have the same intensity it had over the last few years.

For me I'm at a point of trying to reconcile these almost opposing goals.

I am left with a number of alternatives
*drink again, but only while painting, so I can temporarily remove the control, and learnt coping mechanisms over my emotions, and allow me to create art the is more and more inspired and based on releasing underlying emotions
*I could unlearn the emotional controls and impulse controls in the name of my art, althought this will cause other areas of my life to start to back track a little. Is it worth it? I'm not sure....
*Accept the more controlled emotions and inspirations/impulses, and try to find fuel for my art elsewhere...though I think it will be hard to develop given my art style is fairly unique, and I am not convinced that if I could find a alternative source for expressing myself, my art would suffer the intensity it has, and lose its power, also uniqueness.

Bpd can be a blessing when it comes to art. If you can channel all those emotional instability, obsessive tendancies, inspiration, and the very intense way we experience life, great art can come from those bases.

In no way am I saying that you should disregard therapy, and all of the self discovery and awareness, and therapy, and medication can create a more *stable and well rounded you*....which is important for your quality of life.

A lot of artists have suffered from mental illness, and a lot turn to drugs, legal and otherwise. There are also many many artists who have found inspiration though other sources....their muse. But for me, and I think you.....our art is fired by emotion, passion, obsessiveness, and even a little unstability.

Perhaps the answer is to find a happy medium between regulating your emotions, impulse control, etc....whilst not being in so much control of them that they become muted which will affect your art.

I hope this only affects me. I'd like to hear back from you about how you feel.

I will say, that had van gogh been in therapy and on medications.....hed definitely have both ears....but would he have been able to create such masterpieces?

There's a balance there somewhere. What are your thoughts?

I think I will try another week or two of creating art as best as I can while my emotions are in check, and seeing if I can unleash them during my art sessions. If this proves to be difficult, I may look at some other options.

For the record, I feel I am largely getting to a place of remission. I have learned and practised coping mechanisms, and never really triggered, and my emotions are so under control that people who knew me before are calling me *robotic*.....which I'm not really....it's just a huge massive shift over the last few months from the passionate emotional me.

In summation, my life was ruled by passion, emotion, and impulse and my art was very good....and now it is ruled by emotional control, mindfulness, sobriety, and stability.

Is losing the overflowing desire to create....the multiple inspirations at once....the passion....worth the compromise for stability. Most people think so, but I think like you....a lot of people do not realise how important our art is to us

I hope this is relevant

*hugs*

lunargirl wrote:It so nice to hear that people can live with their art and when they manage to live from it moneywise it is great too. But to be trully successfull in anything you must not be driven by money, that is how I see it. You lose the essence and the purpose of what you are doing and in the end, end up bad at it, and you lose all. But we all need money, I need it, it IS the world we live in.

I am pretty sure the artist Cbox refers to is me.

I've split my art into 2 areas. One is for me....personal, and the expression of art as I like it.
The other is the pieces I do on commision.

By no means have I sold out. All the art I create is my style, and always expresses my passion and emotions.
The majoy difference, is pieces I do on commision usually involve me visiting the person's house, getting an idea of size.....but also their decour around the place they want to hang a piece. I take note of the general colour schemes that will fit, and ask them for a very general idea of concept. I never would except a commision that was rigid in design and colour. But I have become aware that to sell pieces to people in new, very modern homes, I have had to choose colour shcemes that suit.

Some of my best pieces, particularly one....many many people have wanted it, but said that the soft pink tones in the sky, won't match their modern homes. As such, when I create pieces for people, I find myself using softer tones.....creams, greys, browns, whites, silvers, etc....to fit into their houses. For those pieces, I've had to scrap brighter yellows, reds, blacks, purples. Also the pieces have become more minimalist.....kind of mood and atmosphere pieces, without being overly busy. These all sell very well, bay the bills, earn good money, and pay for paint supplies and a comfortable living.
I never sacrifice my style, or my integrity. In fact I have developed more as an artist by learning to express emotion, passion in my style....under some minor restrictions.

The other pieces I create, as pure expressions of my desires. Some of these sell well aswell, and these are important pieces to show the boundaries I can push and develop my art, to myself, and to others. In these paintings I explore with brighter colours, and unusual techniques. These pieces are very important to me....but also, I develop a lot of ideas from these paintings that I can use in the more *house friendly* pieces, and vice versa.

Chasing money doesn't compromise your art, so long as you stay true to your style, and refuse to accept commisions that won't develop your art, and stifle it. But with black, white, and silver only, I have learned to express as much emotion and passion into works than if I use a dozen colours.

I think art is a balance between not compromising your integrity and style, and at the same time, being marketable to sell pieces to at the very least pay for your overheads.....and the way I churn through oil paint, it is an expensive hobby. If you can make well above that....it takes pressure off. Also, art is a wonderful endeavour, and making money from it, is a bonus, and a nice confidence boost, but there is something very rewarding when you see others taking such joy in your pieces, and being able to take your art to an appreciative audience.

I don't see it as selling out, and you do not have to compromise any of your style, intensity, inspiration, and creative prowress to reach an audience.

I recently finished 4 pieces in the last week, and they have all sold. There's a validation in experiencing that......and now I am working on 2 pieces that are for me.....weird mixtures of bright colours, exploring and pushing the boundaries in colour and design. These pieces are turning out really well, and may end up just remaining in my personal collection.....but it makes me happy to with no boundaries, and painting ideas, and colours that I want to create.

Also, you never lose the essence of your passion for art, if you remain true to your motives, your style, your expression of passion and stay true to your inspiration. If someone offered me a ridiculous amount to paint a portrait or still life.....I'd decline....because that is not true to my style....and I can't express my feelings through still life. That would be an example of drifting away from the meaning of your art to you in your life. If you set boundaries and limits and maintain integrity, you don't have to lose the essence of your art, just because people want to buy your art. People buy my art because it's my style....I won't ever change that even if it means I'd be more successful.....because it wouldn't make me happy....and I'd lose the reason I paint.....to express my emotions and passion in my style.

Dancing is Forbidden wrote In summation, my life was ruled by passion, emotion, and impulse and my art was very good....and now it is ruled by emotional control, mindfulness, sobriety, and stability.

In summation your honor... I'd like to submit the following pieces of art into evidence. I'd like to conclude by saying my client is totally innocent of all these slanderous charges and request dismissal of this atrosity of a case with prejudice, and find my client not guilty of all charges.. this concludes my summation your honor..

lol... are you in a court of law??

Dancing is Forbidden wrote In summation, my life was ruled by passion, emotion, and impulse and my art was very good....and now it is ruled by emotional control, mindfulness, sobriety, and stability.

cboxpalace wrote:In summation your honor... I'd like to submit the following pieces of art into evidence. I'd like to conclude by saying my client is totally innocent of all these slanderous charges and request dismissal of this atrosity of a case with prejudice, and find my client not guilty of all charges.. this concludes my summation your honor..

lol... are you in a court of law??

Hahahaha. My first lengthy response.....ever....

Guess it has rubbed off on me reading these books on crime and criminal trials.....but seriously....that post was so long it needed a summation!!

Dancing is forbidden wrote:

lunargirl wrote:It so nice to hear that people can live with their art and when they manage to live from it moneywise it is great too. But to be trully successfull in anything you must not be driven by money, that is how I see it. You lose the essence and the purpose of what you are doing and in the end, end up bad at it, and you lose all. But we all need money, I need it, it IS the world we live in.

Hi

I am very glad you replied to my post. I will first reply to this part, and then the second (that one is more relevant to my problem and it really touched me).

Oh, I didn't mean to say you are driven by money and/or sold out because you make money from art. I think it is amazing to do so if you stay true to yourself. And you feel you did. You made a slight compromise. I understand that. I am just figuring out how I could do that, in what way, my way. My art is in various media and always experimenting, and a lot cannot be hanged on a wall. But some can, and I've sold a couple of those. It is still amazing to me that I sold them. I live in a country where art market basically does not exist. I am unemployed and this is a big turn once you're out of art college. You have to figure it out. I made a portrait drawing and accepted to paint a kids room. I do not consider that my art. I presume noone would. Noone who has any idea about my art. I refuse to draw things that I find are really compromising, did just once but then it wasn't compromising as I did not developed my style yet. I needed money. But it still haunts me. I do not know an artist in my country that didn't try to make money at least once this way, and many have done it many times. You have not many options at the start. Most of my collegues consider themselves artists, but they do design. That is for me unacceptable. Because I do not like design fo example, advertising design, it is not art, which is what my colleagues go after; in most cases it is insincere, just fooling people. So I know that but am figuring out what to do. I need money like you, for a studio in future, for supplies, etc. I spend little on other things, save for art. But still... I do not want a job that will consume my energy and leave no time for art. I am just saying it is a hard battle, and you found your way. Everybody needs to find a way. There are not many Tracey Emins who can make what they want and get money for their own pure personal art. I understand compromise but haven't figured out mine yet. It is very hard!

I am going to respond to part 2 now