My therapist says I am 'distant, unable to let anyone in'.

I'm currently receiving bi-weekly 1 hour therapy sessions through my university; I've been working with this particular therapist for about two months.

I am finding this to be an incredibly difficult and challenging experience -- I am completely unable to establish a 'therapeutic relationship' with her. Until our last session, I was quasi-attributing this to her therapy style -- it seems as though she uses Carl Rogers' person centered therapy techniques, which conceptualizes the interaction between the therapist and the client as being one of self-actualization on the part of the client. In this therapy paradigm, the therapist is almost a non-agent; she acts as a mirror for the client, who is seen as the only individual in the interaction who can truly know what the aforementioned self-actualization means to him.

Because the client is seen as the only one who can know himself, he becomes the ultimate teacher of his reality to the therapist. It is the job of the therapist to act as a platform for the client to launch into self-exploration; the opinions and desires and ideals of the therapist hold no place in the interaction. This can result in a very challenging type of therapy for individuals who struggle with a sense of identity (as in Borderline), as the direction and goals of the session must be provided by the client or the session does not progress at all.

So, I honestly have no f!cking idea what I am supposed to be doing in these sessions. She sits there, silently watching me, waiting for me to speak. And when I do, she almost becomes an echo for what I say -- last session I tried to talk about my struggles with existentialism, and she parroted what I said directly back to me, with the added conclusion of: "...and it seems to me as though this really bothers you, doesn't it? You really struggle with these feelings."

And that's it. That's how every discussion goes. And I stare at her and say, "Well, no sh!t. Obviously, I'm struggling with these feelings. I'm here because I don't know what to do about these struggles."

Her reply, invariably:

"And the feeling that you don't know what to do about these struggles, as you call them, is very difficult for you, isn't it?"

And the silence ensues.

I asked her, at the end of our last session, to please give me some direction, anything at all. I asked her to explain what we were supposed to be getting out of therapy, and what she thought of how we were progressing currently. She was reluctant, but then said: "Well, it seems to me that you are very closed in. You're very distant during our sessions. You don't let anyone in, which can make therapy seem challenging."

I don't understand. I tried talking to her about my thoughts, and got nothing back but my own #######4.

Oh my goodness that sounds immensely frustrating and annoying! I would definitely look for another therapist, if that is a viable option for you. Sometimes people have to look and look until they find the right therapist. It sucks, but is worth it. Another thing to possibly consider, and I say this out of my own personal experience, perhaps you would get on better with a male therapist? This is an extremely subjective suggestion, because I myself don't feel comfortable with females (even though I am one--I can probably thank my evil stepmother for this ), so I just thought I'd throw it out there.

I think those of us with BPD really need a concentrated effort on the part of the therapist to help us change our destructive thought patterns and coping mechanisms. We obviously never learned them, which is why we seek help from others. I really don't understand the point of the kind of therapy you're going through, it seems like just writing in a journal would accomplish the same thing!

I have tried three different therapists, all of whom had two things in common: Their first order of business was to establish a goal that therapy is working towards. The purpose of this is to avoid open-ended therapy. If your therapist does not do this, I would look for a different one.

The second thing they had in common was that at one point or another they all told me that they believed I would quickly come to resent any perceived dependence I may have felt towards them. And they were correct, none of them lasted more than 10-12 sessions. In spite of this, I found therapy to be very helpful. An unbiased observer can provide you with valuable insight about your own actions and attitudes that you may not be aware of. If, however, they are unwilling or unable to share those observations, I would find little use for them.

I think that being a therapist trying to treat a borderline is a risky job. Could seriously affect their confidence in their own abilities.

They do, however find us extremely likeable and they generally can't help but want to help us and sometimes irresponsibly take on the challenge.

I have spent many many hours in therapy with dozens of professionals from all areas of mental health and I find it impossible to resist turning the 'event' into some kind of chess match. I accidentally but deliberately try to out maneuvre everybody who tries to treat me. This can take so many different forms and an instinctive voice in my head will confirm that yes "I am manipulating everything thats going on here".. and "yes,...I am going to have to learn the hard way"......(well maybe it's the hard way)

I have met a couple of 'counsellors'....one in particular that I really liked. This also made progress according to some therapy 'mythology' impossible...because I was happy to see this person.

There was a time I had some kind of therapy every day of the damn week and I am impervious to that kind of treatment.

I have been through a ridiculous number of therapists too- my 13th one has turned out to be the most helpful one. I say if you don't feel comfortable with the one you're seeing you would be better off to try and find another one- as scary as that may seem. With my latest therapist I took to the tactic of writing out my entire psych history and all of my past and present issues on paper and presenting it to him in the first session when I worked out that I felt reasonably comfortable with him and that he seemed trustworthy. I find it easier to get across what I need to say by writing it all out than by just trying to explain it all to them, otherwise I just get overwhelmed and upset by everything and don't end up saying anything. Of course you can limit what you write out for them and hold off on some of your "harder to deal with stuff" till later sessions. We keep revisiting my "list" to try and work out how my warped behaviours came about and what I need to learn to get around them, so for me that's worked really well.

As for most of my previous therapists- there are some truly useless ones out there. For me,with most of them I have been given the impression that if we just go over and over everything I'll just suddenly one day be "over it". Ha ha yeah right. My current therapist told me that that way of doing it has just imprinted all my inadequacies more permanently on my brain and hasn't taught me any useful coping skills and made things worse. One in particular had a solution for everything which was to just forgive my friends for all of the bullying and harassment and go become friends with them again- and me apologise to them- huh??? I thought it was meant to be the other way round where they acknowledge what they did and apologise to me!!!

Sorry, I'm rambling on a bit- distant and unable to let anyone in would describe me well- to me its just a natural defence mechanism- if I don't let anyone in then I can get hurt. Pretty extreme and lonely view of the world, but it feels safe and it works.

For me the three therapists who have helped have all been male so the opposite sex has been more helpful to me- but then again I don't know that 3 out of 13 is a good representation.

If you're not comfortable with who you're seeing, I'd definately be searching for another who you can "click" with. You need to be able to trust them and their judgements/what they are saying for them to be able to help you to move forward.

Good Luck
Lil

lilyfairy wrote:As for most of my previous therapists- there are some truly useless ones out there. For me,with most of them I have been given the impression that if we just go over and over everything I'll just suddenly one day be "over it". Ha ha yeah right. My current therapist told me that that way of doing it has just imprinted all my inadequacies more permanently on my brain and hasn't taught me any useful coping skills and made things worse.

..how right is THAT !!

If this is going on then run for ya life !!

It's like being forced to watch a horrible movie (albeit with excellent directing)... over and over and even in slow blimen' motion ...aaaaah. yep

I guess thats why in dbt they don'e let ya talk about ya stuff really at all. Shock education session and if you are so conditioned to replaying all your sad stories over and over then ya can feel robbed.

But it's not worked for me to keep 'introducing' myself in massive detail to every single therapist so they can analyse and dis-mantle me in hopes to put me back together, and with my 'co-operation'....because by then I'm just over it!

well said lilyfairy

For a long time (until about 6 months ago) I actually thought that was what counselling/therapy was all about- reliving it all until you just got over it. I'm on the right track now though I think. My sessions have taken on a whole different tone with my current therapist and even more so since being given the dx of BPD a few weeks ago.

I did "run" from most of them- some I only spent 3 sessions with and gave up on them, some I paid for months of sessions where I would sit and cry the whole way through the session while she went over and over everything my mum had told her in the first session and I would say nothing. Others I spent months (or years) of just plodding along, going nowhere really.

I guess introducing myself in so much detail to them all was probably a bit of a "rescue fantasy"- hoping that they would be the one that I could trust and one that could save me or help me.

....yep

lilyfairy wrote:I guess introducing myself in so much detail to them all was probably a bit of a "rescue fantasy"- hoping that they would be the one that I could trust and one that could save me or help me.

It's been a noble and humble way for me to demonstrate my sincere yearning for HELP over the years. Completely surrendering to the tiresome process of going right back to the 'beginning' and methodically re-produce my life for a specialist to explore.

I believed "if I just tell it a bit better this time !" If I am patient and ignore that I'm feeling worse each time....then the MAGICIAN will cast the spell to save me. Just keep dredging through the information.
I would feel guilty that 'we' were not in truth making any progress at all, I would blame myself and often do the immediately comfortable thing and pretend I understood the approach the specialist decided to take with me. I found myself losing the plot on a magnificent scale and being medicated BADLY over and over.

It's trust in medical experts. This is a natural thing to do I guess. 'Go ask for help...accept the help.' We have the right to be dubious and selective. I had felt so ashamed of myself for so long that I let myself be 'experimented' with by anybody in a 'white coat'. Doctors like to have something to work with, they like information, lots of it sometime...I don't give it to them anymore. So indirectly they 'healed' that out of me.

Decided to take more pride in myself and take more responsibility for my healing. It took alot of beating over the head with me but I have a better understanding of my limits with therapy.

The most accurate evaluations I ever received were during and immediately following a crisis. Once that is established, the diagnosis is final....what is the point of continuing to diagnose my history. My illness has become apparent due to my most recent actions...... I am no professional and this is only my view based on trouble I have had.

I now need skills to continue on....not experience at re-hurting.

nonameatall wrote:I now need skills to continue on....not experience at re-hurting.

Thank you, Lily and Noname. You both have contributed very strongly and intelligently to this thread. I hope others experiencing therapy dilemmas will read the advice and experiences that you have both posted here.

So, then, Lily and Noname, I humbly submit myself to you once again, because (as should have occurred) what you have posted has made me extremely uncomfortable and upset. Which is probably a good indicator that it is highly qualified advice and needs to be listened to.

Reading what you've written, I realize that I have also been playing the "abused and tortured past" card over and over again with my therapists. Trying to stay one step ahead, as it were; thinking that was what therapy was supposed to be about. Go over what has happened, in excruciating detail, and this becomes part of the magical formula will help cure me. If I look at this in the context of manipulation, I get even more upset, which again, cues me to try and look as closely (and baldly) as I can. Is it manipulation? Am I wanting to stay in control of the sessions so deeply that I spout all of the crap that I think they want from me, so that the session moves in the direction that I think it should?

And then I get wretchedly disappointed and completely devalue the therapist when all I get back is "my own #######4". Which was all I ever gave her in the first place.

You mentioned DBT, Noname. How they don't let you talk about your past, let it continue to define you. I guess DBT exists within the present, then? Dealing with the aftermath -- dealing with the individual that arrives at the session, not the emotional baggage she carries?

Maybe DBT is the route I need to look at. But the waiting lists for DBT where I live are 1 year long. Maybe I need to pick up a book on the subject. I know that therapy is probably the best option, but do you think the tenets of DBT can be read and understood through solitary exploration?

biitchelectric wrote: Is it manipulation? Am I wanting to stay in control of the sessions so deeply that I spout all of the crap that I think they want from me, so that the session moves in the direction that I think it should?

And then I get wretchedly disappointed and completely devalue the therapist when all I get back is "my own #######4". Which was all I ever gave her in the first place.

You mentioned DBT, Noname. How they don't let you talk about your past, let it continue to define you. I guess DBT exists within the present, then? Dealing with the aftermath -- dealing with the individual that arrives at the session, not the emotional baggage she carries?

Maybe DBT is the route I need to look at. But the waiting lists for DBT where I live are 1 year long. Maybe I need to pick up a book on the subject. I know that therapy is probably the best option, but do you think the tenets of DBT can be read and understood through solitary exploration?

Oh my god ! I just wrote a comprehensive reply and the computer spat it out into space somewhere....gotta start again...

Anyway. The word manipulation can and will frighten anybody who relies on integrity for self worth. Bpd requires both sincerity and integrity to support a fragile identity framework. so yes it's worth exploring. going over the past exhaustingly is painful as I mentioned. During stress my mind works rapidly. I "inadvertantly" find myself analysing myself during such therapy...and simply find myself one, two maybe 10 steps ahead of the therapist for whatever reasons suit my 'needs' at the time. Usually to avoid pain and be rewarded with approval...all this despite my genuine want to heal.

The therapist has the credentials and the questions and therefore qualifies as an intimidating force and consequently I will attempt to maintain control accidently at the expense of any successful treatment. I walk out confused, shaking my head but somehow satisfied ...wow i've impressed them ! with my intellect. thats who I am ...yeh man... "one smart dude" !.....BUT I'm still really sick !

Dbt on the other hand removes this kind of leverage a bpd will automatically tweak for advantage, by loosening the grip on our own bpd legacy. After all it's bpd that gets us/got me sitting there with 10 other bpd's all quietly peeved and awkward because our focus is forced into the future.

.....so yes, dbt exists in the present because of the past and directs us into the future... hope that makes sense.
The concepts are perfectly suited to bpd and are sound I discovered. It's a matter of bending yourself to fit them as opposed to bending previous techniques to fit us. hmmmm

thanks for the questions

...and I believe self study can work...I mean why not. The lists are long and waiting is hard. nothin' wrong with educating self.