Does this seem like BPD?

ewie23, I wrote a long post and then lost it, but here's a summary of what I wanted to say:

Klonopin is addictive and has terrible side effects including loss of memories and emotions. Its not safe, nor will it address the core symptoms of BPD. I would advise you to talk to your doctor about your daughter tapering off it.

Your husband sounds like he needs therapy as much as your daughter, maybe more. It's totally inappropriate for him to be saying and doing those things. He might have some combo of BPD and PTSD, I don't know.

Psychiatrists and the psych industry in general just doesn't deal with BPD very well, either in kids or adults. It screws with the system, and they don't like that. That's why BPD has had the reputation in the industry of being a "trash-bag" diagnosis that therapists give to patients that they don't like, can't control, or just don't understand. It's important to read good books on BPD, listen to people who have it, and trust your instincts and your daughter's instincts, because the "help" you get from professionals is not always going to actually help.

And remember that physical health is really important! It's simple and cheap to exercise, get fresh air, and enjoy nature...

Thank you again Isoko. Your posts are so helpful. My daughter, when in situations in the absence of all stress (grandma/grandpas house, or on vacation), also seems normal, which is why my parents have a hard time seeing anything wrong with her (although they know from my telling them). She is also totally fine at her theater class, where she is totally excepted by peers, has been going for years, and is sort of the star of the show. With school, home stress, new situations, she completely loses it and has what I can only call episodes that are very scary to me (and her) and make it seems as if she is a different person, so much so that I thought she would not remember what happened during the episodes (she does remember). These episodes seem almost as if she is acting the part of an insane person in a movie. I do not mean to be disrespectful in my wording, this is just how it seems to me when I am witnessing her during these times. These episodes are always at night and are always triggered by what she considers any sort of criticism or rejection, even when minor. Which is why, now, we are not taking her computer away at night, since this was a major trigger (she said her head is controlling her enough,that she does not need us controlling her even more) sending her into rage, panic, and cutting. Certain movies have also triggered her, as have things friends/parents have said, and worrying about school the following day. This makes the ability to parent at all nearly impossible. And, it keeps her on the computer for like 10 hours a day, into the morning at anywhere from 4-5:30am, making her sleep a mess, and making it impossible for her to go to school, even though she claims she wants to go. I struggle with backing off and being a non-parent, and stepping in to a nightmare of rage and cutting that scares all of us. This all really sucks, and so I am going to get a second opinion from someone specializing in BDP. Whether she has it or not, I imagine the treatment for BDP could help.

Thank you betterlatethannever. Your advice is well taken. My concerns with the medication are the same, as I want her off of this stuff. What about mood stabilizers? Do people with BPD benefit form them ever?Exercise is also so important and although it is hard to get her to do it regularly, when she does, she responds well and is much calmer as long as the exercise is rigorous.

You're welcome ewie - I'm glad I can help even a bit.

I can totally get the way your daughter can appear perfectly fine when there are no stressors. But add in a stressor and it's a totally different person. I confused most of the hospital staff before my dx because I am such a logical, rational person and yet my behaviour, under the wrong conditions, is completely irrational and, like you say, insane. That's because it's purely emotion driven behaviour - there is no room for rational thought in a BPD mind when emotions get triggered. I also love acting - people don't understand that! I'm a different person onstage though...but I can't apply the same principle to my life though. I'm me in real life when there is no script to follow and the black & white thinking of BPD means that I can't pretend otherwise. I hate role play in therapy because it's not "real" in my mind.....it's just pretending to be real life but there is no emotional impetus that drives me in a real life situation. Even my group therapist doesn't get that.

Medication - there are no 2 people on this forum who are on the same doses of medication, let alone the same kinds. It really is a case of working out what helps you manage your particular symptoms so that you can live YOUR day to day life in a meaningful way. As I said, my anti-d keeps my "happy chemical" levels boosted so I at least wake up feeling OK. Circumstances might make me feel depressed later on in the day, but I start from a decent level which helps. I am also on the pill for 3 monthly batches so I don't have the trauma of PMS to deal with as well......hormones will also be causing havoc for your daughter at her age. I remember being about 15 and just feeling miserable and not really knowing why....it was the hormones mainly at that time.

The computer issue......this is something that needs to be discussed when your daughter is in a calmer mood. So maybe around lunchtime one day. I would guess that she stays on it simply because she is terrified of going to sleep because of what happened with her Dad. She may WANT to sleep but her mind is telling her "don't sleep because when you did sleep, your dad panicked and you can't have that happen again, so stay awake". She might not even be aware anymore that this is what is going on in her head. She will probably tell you that she just finds herself getting more and more anxious the closer it gets to evening and by bedtime her anxiety will be sky-high....so taking the computer away will literally send her over the emotinal edge and that's when she will resort to self-harm to try and relieve some of the emotional tension. SO, she needs to start getting used to the idea that she can fall asleep and everything will be OK. Here I run out of steam because I'm trying to think of ways that you can do that......I guess it has to start much earlier in the evening. It might be difficult for you for a few weeks, but I would suggest starting to cut down the time she's on the computer. But prepare her for it well in advance. So say, tonight I will come in and switch off the computer at 2am. She will be very anxious and wound up - so I'm thnking you might need to stay with her while she falls asleep...and tell her you will do that. Bring her a milky drink and maybe her faviourite biscuits? Make it as pleasant as possible fo rher to sleep, although you will be forfieting your own sleep for a bit. I don't knw - that's just what I might think of to do.

I'm going to be offline now until tomorrow, but I'll keep checking back each day if you need anymore advice.....other people can feel free to jump in with suggestions!

ewie-- sorry if I sounded a bit pushy and lecturing in my previous post. I guess I am feeling a lot of empathy for your daughter, and hoping that she doesn't go through a lot of things that I went through, or saw others go through.

Personally, I did take a mood stabilizer (Abilify) for about a year. It did calm me down a bit, but at a certain cost. Namely, I lost quite a bit of emotion when I started taking it, and after about 8 months I could barely feel any emotions at all other than pretty extreme dysphoria. I quit it after a year, and it took roughly 2 years for me to feel like I was emoting fully again. That's a long time. And I was on a very low dose, probably the lowest dosage. It was a serious trade-off and I probably would not do it again.

I would say that the most important thing for your daughter right now is to lower her distress levels. It's the distress that leads to the wild bouts of "insanity" and the other extreme behaviors. The discomfort of BPD is so high that people will do extraordinary things to make the bad feelings lessen. The key is to tell the person what is actually going on (I am pretty adamant that she has BPD), give the person some kind of professional support, and try to remove or change the worst of the stressors. If you take baby steps, and your daughter can see what you are doing and why, and she actually feels some relief, then she will probably improve rapidly.

Thank you betterlatethannever. I did not think you were being pushy at all. I appreciate your concern and advice. I agree that all stress should be removed, but the problem is that she insists on remaining in the stress (school being the main one, which, although she has been absent for much of 7 weeks, she insists on trying to go each day––thus prolonging the torture on a daily basis in my opinion). I am taking her for a second opinion with a clinical psychologist who specializes in BDP, as I think her psychiatrist is clueless. He had discounted my concern that this could be BPD right away, and is just doing the try every drug thing, which is doing pretty much nothing but causing side effects. Right now she is on Klonopin, on which she is already acting like a junkie, and Lamictal, which is doing nothing for her moods (it's only been 12 days), but is making her unbearably thirsty, which is really worrying me. She is drinking unbelievable amounts of water with no relief. This cannot be good. I just don't understand how this guy can think she is bipolar when she has never really had either a depressive or manic episode, but seems depressed and manic at the same time all day every day.

I think that's great that you are getting a second opinion. I don't understand why the psychiatrist is diagnosing Bipolar Disorder either. The only thing I can think of is that he is deliberately misdiagnosing your daughter in order to avoid the stigma of BPD while still prescribing mood stabilizers that he thinks will help her BPD. Of course, that would be malpractice. Anyway, I think he is completely wrong and you are right. Some people on this board seem to like Lamictal...I've never taken it and it seems to be prescribed mostly for Bipolar issues. The side effects, like extreme thirst, are likely worse than any benefits to a 15-year-old with BPD.

I see what you are saying about the school thing. She must be wanting very much to stay connected to her classmates. Obviously she is not healthy enough to consistently go. Maybe her close friends could convince her to commit to staying home and taking care of her own health. Especially if the new psychologist is better (likely).

Isoko has some good insights on the computer usage and the kind of thoughts and patterns that BPD people go through. I especially agree that the time to talk to your daughter is when she seems to be calm and in a relatively better mood. The moods change so fast...it's very difficult for other people to figure out what's going on inside.

Thank you again betterlatethannever. I am looking forward to a second opinion for my daughter. We just saw her psychiatrist and he wants to add seroquel, which I am refusing for the moment, since her Lamictal has not even been increased yet to the dosage he intends. I really get nervous adding more medications. He thinks this is my problem, and every time I hesitate or take a day or so to think about all of this, I have to agree "that I understand that I am refusing medical advice." As if I don't understand that.

As far as getting him to consider BPD, I will be speaking with him privately Wednesday. I also spoke to my daughter's psychologist today, whom I have not spoken to in about 2 months, and she also thinks she has bipolar, perhaps with borderline features. But, she is more adamant about the bipolar. When I mentioned the rapid mood shifts, as in every day, and sometimes, within a matter of hours, or even minutes, she said that can be bipolar in teens. She also said it is possible that she has both. When you were a teen, was bipolar considered for you? Or, did you not have symptoms at that time? If anyone else would like to chime in, feel free, as I need all the advice I can get right now.

With all of this medication, I guess the one thing I have to consider that is positive, is what my daughter said to me today: "I may seem worse to you right now because I have been freaking out, but I have been suppressing how I feel for the last 2 years, and especially the last few months. The last few months before I started the medication and started seeing Dr. X, I was losing my mind. I know I seem crazier now, but I feel like I am getting my emotions out. I was scared of everything before and now I am not." So, I can't argue with that. Today was the first time I heard her say anything like this. In part, she met a girl this weekend (friend of a friend) who is her age, goes to her school, and who tried to commit suicide somewhat recently. She felt that this is the first person she has met that understands her, and while this made her sad, it also comforted her. She seemed positive today for the first time in a long time, so maybe the Lamictal is doing something. Wait and see....

Thank you

Hi, I haven't posted here for a long time. I hope things are improving with your daughter. Take care...