Empathy for the Bad Guy

Anyone else watch cops (or any other type of situation with a bad guy), see a guy getting dragged into a cop car crying, telling his wife to just use his check to pay the bills and apologizing. . . .

I find normal people say, "well, he shouldn't have done the crime." or "good, he belongs behind bars."

I feel bad for the guy. It seems like he's doing his best and is just a massive, horrible failure. He's disappointed in himself but doesn't even begin to know what to do differently. I would be happy to talk to the guy, get his thoughts and emotions in order. . . . Seems like regular people are like, screw him, he made that bed.

It depends on the situation.

Usually I feel empathy for the guy that people don't care about. The homeless guy or the drug addict that can't pull themselves bad up... THAT guy...
My friends aren't real sympathetic to them... I'm friends with them...
My friends and I fight about that a lot... It's interesting.
I'm not real sympathetic to a lot of people on cops though. I know those guys too, usually... They're usually real jerks. Lol... But that's a story for another day.

It depends on the situation for me as well. My sympathy tends to lean more toward the prostitutes, the addicts, the homeless or the mentally ill. There’s usually a reason why such people end up where they do or make the kind of choices that lead them to where they are. I often wonder what they were like as children, what kind of life they had beforehand and what changed for them.

I sometimes feel sympathy for drunk drivers who end up hurting or killing someone. I think it’s because we tend to vilify such people, but I know so many people who’ve driven while tipsy or under the influence – myself included. It’s a stupid yet easy thing to do. I’ve also found myself feeling bad for the occasional road rage or dopey bar fight that ends up in death; mostly because it usually involves regular people who aren’t typically violent or bad. They allowed their emotions to get out of control and it ended in the worst way possible.

Of course I’m sure I would feel quite differently if I were ever the victim.

I'm totally black and white. If I see enough evidence for them being the "bad" guy, then that's it plain and simple in my mind. But if their story is told in a sympathetic way then I prefer to think of them as "good" as I don't like to think badly of anyone.

MrEmMak wrote:Anyone else watch cops (or any other type of situation with a bad guy), see a guy getting dragged into a cop car crying, telling his wife to just use his check to pay the bills and apologizing. . . .

I find normal people say, "well, he shouldn't have done the crime." or "good, he belongs behind bars."

I feel bad for the guy. It seems like he's doing his best and is just a massive, horrible failure. He's disappointed in himself but doesn't even begin to know what to do differently. I would be happy to talk to the guy, get his thoughts and emotions in order. . . . Seems like regular people are like, screw him, he made that bed.

They need help not punishment. Tell me: in justice where's the line between punishment and vengeance? Well that's the question one has to answer. But most don't. Most don't care. Were it their loved one, no doubt you'd see them fighting for them, saying "he just needs help", or, "such and such occurred..." They'd suddenly quit being so opinionated. It's easy to do what you say 'normal' people do as, well, in general, people know nothing. The desire for punishment and vengeance is amongst mankind's most primitive instincts; as is protecting and defending your brood. We're supposedly more advanced now though, or so many would like to believe or tell us. So why do we throw to the wolves the very same people we'd be helping and defending simply as they have no connection to us? I think survival instinct tells us that our family and friends surviving helps us survive, those others, the 'bad guys' are not only not family or friends but they are potentially dangerous to friends and family. So, ultimately it's a selfish desire in a sense. We defend those who contribute to our own survival. How we perceive the 'bad guys' and 'justice' is more than often motivated by selfishness. "They are not of me, and they are a potential threat to my family and tribe (tribe being friends) so they must be removed" our minds tell us, I believe. We live in a so-called modern civilization; not a tribal community. We have the ability to not listen to everything our brain tells us more than any other being on Earth, so why are we behaving like primates?

Many of these people grew up in crime infested areas, and on top of that their areas had little in way of opportunity. Some grew up with bad role-models, or no role-models to speak of. Some began to have problems in early childhood but it were ignored and they were simply "punished", either doing nothing for their behavior, or worsening it. Whereas if people had paid attention that criminal seed growing in them could have been plucked out and destroyed before it began to take root. They don't even try to distinguish normal acting up from something more anti-social as that takes work, and it costs money as well. It's easier anyway. They're too much trouble. Add to that, many teachers are underpaid and bitter. Working with children in a school setting can twist people. Children are difficult and it's frustrating and easy to lose sight of and understand that their mind aren't fully developed, and that they're not bad, just learning and still growing.

But doesn't it cost less in the end and isn't it less trouble for all of society if they stopped being criminals? Or, what if many never became criminals in the first place? That is, helped in early childhood.

A decent school psychologist could have and/or could be been in place; if the school is huge, there could have been, or could be an entire team. The child could get sent to them after many, repeated visits to the principles office and after-school 'detention' (prison-light, essentially) failed, who through evaluation could have had them sent to a perhaps more qualified psychologist for regular sessions in order to seek out and destroy that criminal, anti-social seed and give them the same chance we all have.

For those who are criminals aren't we applying the same stupid, lazy, cheap 'solution' towards them? Shouldn't we have rehabilitation instead? Sure, some will never change, but I believe most can. Some don't even understand what they are doing is wrong, or why it is wrong. Some do understand that they're doing wrong and want to stop but are unable, or feel unable somehow. Some don't have the life-skills and knowledge as you or me. Some can't function in society.

Shouldn't we all have a chance?

Can we not use logic combined with compassion (two other traits unique to humans) to broaden our view of the world? See everyone to an extent --we have to focus on our family and friends, that's natural and important-- as at least something like our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, nephews, cousins, mothers, fathers et al?

Well, perhaps that's the problem? Looking around, I find the world severely lacking in both logic and compassion in equal measure.

This reminds me of something Nietzsche wrote... comes out of Thus Spoke Zarathustra I believe:

"What is an Ape to Mankind? Either an amusement or a painful embarrassment. What will We be to the next stage of Mankind?"

Edit: typos, un-typos.

I know exactly what you mean.

Whenever I see people who behave like complete assholes, drug addicts, or almost anyone for that matter, I instantly empathize when others usually judge the behavior. It seems so uncompassionate and slightly ignorant when people judge others without considering how cold this world can be and what may have motivated them to certain behavior. Yes, some people like charles manson, the btk, and circumstances of that sort should be judged more harshly, however I think it's irresponsible of society to fully blame the individual knowing that children are molded by their surroundings.

I seem to be the only one in my group of friends who is constantly saying, well, "People aren't born evil, nor do they want to be." It's as if most people have no idea that childhood experiences mold adults, and they simply label that person and move on. Take Lindsay Lohan for example. The media along with most people I know, call her all these horrible names saying she's a train wreck and such, but I'm repulsed by the lack of care. I only see her as a person who's obviously very depressed and acting out with drugs. She probably had a difficult early life and just because no one knows about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Geesh! People can be so cold and I don't understand why they are so quick to label another as "washed-up" or "bad" and not understand that, again, people don't choose to be a certain way or the situation they are born into.

Another reason why the world is so cold. No wonder there's a stigma attached to mental illness, depression, anxiety, etc.; it's from all the people in society who lack compassion and therefore antagonize the wounded.

But yeah, I don't think it's necessarily just those with BPD who have this empathy, I think it's most people who've had a tough life. We understand first-hand how much children are molded by others, how uncontrollable feelings can be, and we can relate to the pain that drives many to be violent, suicidal, or drug-addicted. We see these people as troubled and in need of guidance. My theory, regarding us with bpd, is that in order to heal from our own wounds, we needed to look at those who hurt us early in life and not take it personally or as though we are defective and deserving of such treatment. We learn that those who hurt us were wounded and had been hurt by someone when they were young. Basically, hurt people hurt people. If we were to simply think as the many do, that these were simply inherently bad people, then we could never truly have compassion for ourselves for we're ignoring the fact that experiences shape personhood; people aren't born this way. In this revelation, we learn that there is hope to change. The same occurs vice-versa. We can learn compassion for ourselves and this naturally carries over to others.

Essentially, without experiencing incredible pain, it's impossible to fathom or understand the lengths at which another will go in search of relief.

i have been where that guy has been iv been arrested a fue times
but i dont feel sorry for him i have trouble feeling sorry for anyone
i lack empathy

I empathize with people I see on TV or that I hear or read about. It seems obvious that people don't act all effed-up for no reason.

If it's someone I'm having to DEAL with, not so much. Maybe after the fact, but even then not if it seems like they aren't taking responsibility for trying to surmount their issues.

That's a tough judgment to make, though. I keep doing the same stupid crap over and over, and nobody sees the effort I make to stop it.

wildernessrealm wrote:Essentially, without experiencing incredible pain, it's impossible to fathom or understand the lengths at which another will go in search of relief.

I just quoted your last sentence/summary, but wow, that post from beginning to end felt so good to read.

It brings me to a new thought. . . . If we have feelings that allow us to empathize with a group of people who would stick a heroine needle in their arm or a gun to their head, other people have a different set of feelings that allow them to really empathize with the upset person who just had their feelings hurt by a rude person. It's my feelings, so of course I think they're the most valid feelings in the world, but isn't it interesting how hateful and vengeful regulars can get over a rude comment or comments. It seems borderlines can turn the other cheek so long as it wasn't in malice, intent or spite.

You know, my whole life I've wanted to be a normal, it just seemed so effortless and easy, but at this moment, I'm pretty proud to have the compassion and caring that I do have. There is room for us here on earth. We're just in the gross minority, so we believed the world when it told us we weren't alright.

Some mentally ill people yes.

Like fatal attraction. Okay, that women was just not loved. She needed alot of therapy. I have felt like she has and yes I can sympathise.

I know that is just a movie, but you get what I am getting at.

Or mabye even some white collar crimminals.

Other people rapists, child killers, kidnappers, cannibals. It is really hard to feel bad for people who commit such hanse crimes.

Tho, I know every single person has a light side and a shadow side to them. It's part of human psychology. Which one you decided to LEAD with is everything.

A lot of people see it more black and white than that. Which I can understand too. But we are all humans. Some people are just very very very far from that light side.

I do understand what your saying EMMARK, I guess for me it depends but I fall in between.