Does an uBPD partner know from the start?

Here's a question. My apparently now uBPDxgf, ( I've been split black for 3 months, no contact, no explaination ) , when things were going really really well, and we were talking about getting married, asked on a couple occasions, out of the blue, "So, what would it take to push you away? You know, to the point where you wouldnt even want to be around me any more." I just laughed and said "I dont think thats possible" I once asked her why she would ask such a question, and she never really answered, she just changed the subject. We continued getting along really well. On another occasion, she was showing me some antique furniture in a barn , that she was saving. It was in really bad shape, and since I like restoring that kind of thing, I told her I'd fix them up for her sometime. She got really quiet and then whispered, " wow, he loved me, and he even loved my stuff ". Then she walked away and started crying. I asked her what was wrong after a few minutes andd she finally stopped crying and said " nothing, scr*w it. never mind" and kissed me and that was it. We still were getting along fine for a time and then she just went from loving me to refusing to even speak to me. No fight. No "breakup talk ". Gone.

Does this mean that she knew all along this was gonna happen? And if so, is it likely she knows its BPD? If so , then why wouldnt she be actively working to break the control this disorder has over her and her relationships? I mean, every body says "its not their fauilt. Its the disorder" But as somebody else posted. "If you have diabeties in your family and your predisposed to getting it and you develop it, its not your fault. But, if you realise youve got it, and you dont follow the available recomendations to manage it, and so it becomes severe and affects your quality of life. That is your fault." (not an exact quote, but close enough).

I sure do miss her...and I dont quite know why. Never had any relationship like this. Cant seem to shake her out of my head.

Hi, pounce! I'm sure she wasn't planning on leaving you from the start, but it sounds to me like a lot of stuff is going on with her. She probably felt insecure and depressed. It's not because of anything you did, she does have to get treatment for her illness. Maybe you think about her so much because she touched you emotionally and you feel a need to help her. I doubt there's much you could do, though.

pounce wrote:Does this mean that she knew all along this was gonna happen?

Pounce, I agree with Jasmin. My understanding is that BPDs have a continual fear of two things, both of which are at opposite ends of a spectrum: intimacy and abandonment. They may get a few hours of relief with binges on spending or some other impulsive action.

Yet, the only thing giving them "sustained" relief -- for up to several months -- is the emotional defense we rely on so heavily in childhood. It is called "magical thinking." Of course, it offers relief from those two real fears only if it is done subconsciously so that the BPD is unaware she is seeing a distorted picture of reality. That is, for your exGF to have gotten such relief, she had to have really believed you are the knight on a white horse and are unlike any other man she ever dated.

The result of magical thinking is that wondrous three-month period we all know so well as "infatuation." Because your exGF was unaware that much of your charm and attributes are -- and please forgive for saying this -- baseless and unreal, she genuinely believed you were her savior incarnate. This misguided belief -- magical thinking, actually -- held her twin fears at bay for several months.

Yes, there are rare exceptions. In my case , for example, I exceeded my exW's expectations and was everything she could imagine. She simply had bad judgment. In your case , however, it was your imaginary perfection that enabled your exGF to avoid the fear of abandonment and, during intimate moments, avoid the fear of engulfment. Then, after the honeymoon ended, you likely found that an intimate evening was usually followed the next morning -- if not that same night -- by an argument created out of thin air to push you away.

Well, I over-simplify somewhat because, during that three months, the relief was not always present and seamless. There were occassional moments when reality slipped back in and she said things that, in hind sight, you now recognize as red flags which you simply ignored during the euphoria. After all, we Nons use magical thinking too, albeit less frequently than BPDs.

These momentary interruptions of the fantasy explain the occasional returns of her abandonment fears so evident in questions like "what would it take to push you away?" My point then -- Jasmin's point, actually -- is that your exGF was reacting to a momentary return of her fears. She likely was not revealing a hidden knowledge or plan that the two of you would be splitting up.

If she had really known you would be leaving, she could have never tolerated the numerous intimate moments during the honeymoon without repeatedly pushing you back with hostile accusations (as you saw after the honeymoon ended). Nor could she have held her abandonment fear at bay so well during that period.

And if so, is it likely she knows its BPD?

No, very unlikely. As I have said in other threads, untreated BPDs (like codependent Nons) have low self esteem -- to the point of disliking themselves. So, understandably, they fear that their partner will eventually discover their real self (which, ironically, they themselves cannot discover) and be repulsed. In addition, they have no stable sense of who they really are. Consequently, the last thing they want is find one more thing to add to the list of things they hate about themselves -- or one more thing to challenge their fragile unstable image of who they are.

I say that based on what nearly every Non on this and other BPD forums reports -- namely, that their partners never would believe they have BPD. This is in sharp contrast to the experience of BPDs here, all of whom are self aware about their illness and most of whom say they were greatly relieved to find out the cause of their suffering.

My experience, then, is that the very few BPDs who become self aware are attracted to sites like this where they learn how to better control their emotions and share that knowledge with other BPD sufferers. And, as Jasmin has done in this thread, most of them spend a considerable amount of time trying to help us Nons too.

If you realize you've got BPD [or another illness like diabetes], and you don't follow the available recommendations to manage it .... that is your fault.

No, not necessarily. I would rather say your responsibility. I agree that BPD is like diabetes in the sense it is an illness. In all other important respects, however, they are wholly different things. Unlike BPD and the other PDs, diabetes does not distort one's perceptions of other people, making most victims unable to trust what anyone says -- indeed, unable to trust themselves. Because BPDs must deal each day with tides of intense emotions sweeping through them, they cannot trust their own feelings and beliefs -- much less the "available recommendations" of psychologists or your claims of love.

Your statement, then, is like saying that a woman set adrift in a stormy sea is at fault for spilling her coffee because the available recommendation had been to "hold your cup steady." And it is like saying that a blind woman is at fault for bumping into furniture because the available advice had been to "use the cane we gave you." She nonetheless is responsible because nobody else can do it for her.

It therefore is unfair to make blanket statements about BPDs being "at fault" for failing to heed expert advice about healing themselves. Although I may be wrong, I have a gut level feeling that the vast majority of people -- including BPDs -- are trying to do the best they can. This statement does not imply, however, that they are never at fault. The behavior of some BPDs -- like that of some Nons -- is so egregious that we all likely would agree that they are very much at fault. Moreover, because none of us is consistent, we all are periodically at fault for something.

Nor does this statement imply that I am any better than you at avoiding unfair blanket statements. Making such statements is easy to do when there is too little time to sit down, as I am doing now, and dwell on the issue. Moreover, knowing where to draw the line between responsibility and fault is hard to do -- sometimes as difficult as staying clear of furniture or holding the cup steady.

I sure do miss her...and I don't quite know why.

Really? Could it have been the most passionate sex that any 49 year old man has ever experienced? What about the powerful feeling of being a savior sent to carry her in your arms to a place of safety. Or the feeling you had met your soul mate who, unlike every other woman, shared so many common interests with you?

Did you not feel, given the remote chance of meeting a soul mate, that God likely intended that you meet her at this very point in your life? Did you not feel totally at ease whenever you were around her during the honeymoon? And don't you still have a nagging suspicion, somewhere in the recesses of your mind, that you may be able to reestablish those honeymoon conditions if you can only convince her to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference?

Finally, did you not feel that, for the first time in your life, you had met someone who sees you for exactly what you are and loves every bit of it? Certainly, that is how I felt. That is why I still know I exceeded all my exW's expectations and was everything she could imagine. Like I said, she used bad judgment.

Hi jasmin ! Thanks for your response. I think that there is, as you said, a lot going on with her. I really wish she would see that she has something that she's gonna need to work on. I love her dearly, but I've got the strong feeling that she's not comin back this time. I've been through this twice with her, though never had no contact for this long ( 3 months ). I'm glad you dont feel that it was anything I did or said that made her leave. But on the other hand, I allmost wish it was... cause then I could at least try to take it back and fix things. Oh well. And you're right , she did touch me emotionally, like nobody else, I cant even really describe it. I know its something she's gonna have to fix on her own , I tried to talk to her about it, but she will not discuss it at all. I dont try to contact her anymore, but I sure would LOVE to hear from her, if all that talk of love I once heard is at all real. But I doubt it was. I could never treat someone i love like this. no way.

Hi Downtown DC,


Thanks for taking the time to give me that well reasoned answer, and yes you are right .Responsibility is the term I should have used, not fault. I did not mean to cast dispersions on anybody. God... I would throw myself in front of a freight train to protect her , I certianly didnt mean to point fingers. I just dont know how somebody could go through life ,(if this is what shes actually doing... I do not know) sabotaging, or leaving one relationship, that was going so well at first, only to then go to another one, and then another one, and then another one, unless maybe the person with uBPD is running, running from having to face an unpleasant truth about themselves, that they might have a disorder, a problem that needs to be to dealt with. I mean , most of what we read about BPD paints a pretty bleak picture. I guess thats even more true if the info your reading paints a picture of....yourself. Even understanding that you can be helped with therapy,reading that its gonna take years, and be really tough, and ya gotta be completely open to the idea that maybe your actions alone were the reason for so many failed relationships. That could likely cause the "flight" instincts to kick in anybody, whether they are disordered or not. Maybe the person with BPD is just running when ya get suddenly dropped. It doesnt take them closer to a "happily ever after" ending. But it buys them time,lets them push off having to face a problem that from all I've read takes a very strong reslove to fix. I dont know. I wish I did.
And yes DC, right again, this woman was, I guess while I was the person she felt she wanted, the most passionate wonderfull person I've ever known, it was hevean! while it lasted I was sure , for a while, that I' found my soulmate.

Pounce, maybe you can use this as an opportunity to look into your own heart and figure out why she has a hold on you. It could have to do with what you need too like attention or love. You could grow a bit and put this behind you.