Why why why...... can't I have a box?

Squeekerz wrote:For some reason, whenever I see someone state that BPD is a personality disorder, I feel this twinge of aggression, as if I'm ready to fight you for some reason. lulz. I suppose it is because I have gone through so much that I hate feeling as though people feel like borderline is just some personality flaw that needs to be worked on, even if that is not what they're saying. xP

Huge difference between disorder and flaw. If I had 7 different color apples (one for each color in the rainbow) and put them under bowls and shuffled them around (like in kung fu panda), they would be disordered. If I took off the lids and they were all ROTTED, that would be flawed.

2forward1back wrote::cry:

Why wont my psychologist give me a diagnosis? He wont even hint at one. I have explained why I want one (so that I can understand my past and know what are the best books to read, which treatment will be most appropriate, so that I can get better faster by learning the most appropriate techniques)

But he said part of my problem is that I want a diagnosis. He said that ‘we’ prefer to look at the symptoms and work on those. He said that I would be better off accepting myself and my feelings and my thoughts rather than wanting to put myself in a box.

So I asked him what are my ‘relevant’ symptoms then, and he went ahead and mentioned some of the symptoms which are common with BPD.

Your psychologist is right. Because by giving you a label, you're already limiting yourself to how you can be treated. Already, you're after books to give you learning techniques for BPD, but the thing is, NO person with BPD (or any PD for that matter) are the same. Yes, you may have some similar traits, but if you were to go into a room with a 100 other people with BPD you'd all be different in terms of interests, discipline and temperament etc...

Just because some books may work for certain people with BPD doesn't mean they would with you. And some books that aren't just aimed necessarily at BPD could work. PD's are just man-made labels, and everybody's personality is somewhat different to anothers. Even twins are different, may be similar in a lot of ways but one may be more bad tempered, the other may be more anxious or impulsive.

Smacster wrote:Emotional dysregulation (the state of being emotionally dysregulated) is a product of manic-depressive disorder. It can co-exist with BPD, but BPD as a personality disorder is just that... a personality. Emotional dysregulation is caused by chemical imbalance.

This is incorrect. Both bipolar and bpd are caused by chemical imbalances. I will post some links to newer books with updated research. Emotional dysregulation is actually possibly going to be the new name for borderline, as it describes the disorder better. Your emotions flip minute-to-minute, unless bipolar which cause depression for maybe a week or a year and then mania for an extended period of time. Borderlines can not control their moods minute-to-minute. They have to work hard at it. DBT Therapy is wonderful for borderline. The newest studies show that borderline is indeed part genetic and part environmental, just like bipolar. I am going to suggest reading a few great books that I read. They really explained the more recent findings about bipolar, and in layman's terms that we can understand. Two are workbooks that you can actually do, if you feel like it. Otherwise just reading is helpful.
All mental illness is in some way chemical. For example, one person may be sexually abused as a child and get borderline. One may be sexually abused as a child and not get borderline. There are predispositions to everything, even addiction to alcohol. Nothing is only environmenal. Meds often help borderline. Anyhoooo...here are the books I've liked the most. I also highly recommend getting into DBT therapy, if there is somebody around you who does it.

This is the best book I've ever read on borderline. The website is good too. This is a must read. If you can't afford to buy it, ask your library to get it for you.
http://www.bpddemystified.com/

This is DBT therapist Marsha L. Lineham's workbook. It is very insightful and explains the emotional dysregulation and other problems that borderlines have to learn to control. Excellent book. Very expensive. Suggest the library:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Treating ... 0898620341

This is Borderline Personality Disorder for Dummies It's supposed to be really good and got 5 star reviews. I haven't tackled this one yet, but I will

http://www.amazon.com/Borderline-Person ... 0470466537

Have happy holidays, one and all!

Well then I guess BPD isn't a personality disorder. Good for you guys, tricking the medical community into giving you another thing to blame

"It's not me... it's my brain!" - Alphabet

My psychologist wouldn't give me a firm diagnosis either. She kept hinting at NPD but wouldn't commit to a diagnosis. How am I supposed to figure out how to fix something without first knowing what it is? I plan to remind her that she is the service provider and I am the customer, that's if I go back to her in the new year.

Catherine01 wrote: I plan to remind her that she is the service provider and I am the customer, that's if I go back to her in the new year.

This is the typical narc response. Inherent problem in this argument is that you are devaluing her because you feel entitled to fit in a box, due to black and white thinking, when in fact the box represents a terrible, life-interfering disorder that if diagnosed would cripple you for your entire life. It is her job to do more than satisfactory due-diligence before pronouncing you to be incurable.

I actually did it a couple times before my therapist abjectly shut me down. She is very smart and persuasive. I'm quite lucky.

AGCDEFG wrote:The newest studies show that borderline is indeed part genetic and part environmental .... All mental illness is in some way chemical.

Alphabet, you are overreaching. Researchers have not yet established that all mental illness is caused, in whole or in part, by body chemistry. Indeed, the BPDdemystified website you cite does not actually say that. Instead, it speaks in highly qualified terms such as "seems most likely" and "it appears," because the cause(s) of BPD is not yet known for sure, as I explained above.

Specifically, that website states "It now seems most likely that both environmental and biological factors, especially genetic ones, place a person at risk for developing the disorder.... It appears that no single cause, or risk factor, is responsible by itself for causing the disorder [emphasis added]."

Hence, those "newest studies" prove nothing about the role of childhood abuse. The jury is still out as to whether childhood abuse, by itself, is sufficient to cause BPD in a person who is not predisposed (by body chemistry) to mental illness. Finding that some people experienced childhood abuse without developing BPD does not prove that it was an insufficient cause of BPD for others experiencing abuse. Moreover, finding that only 70% of BPDers experienced childhood abuse/abandonment certainly does not prove that such neglect is insufficient to cause BPD.

On the contrary, some of the "newest studies" find that childhood abuse appears to cause the change in body chemistry by causing a change in brain structure. Specifically, they show that the hippocampus and amygdala may be as much as 16% smaller in people with BPD and have suggested that experiences of trauma may lead to these neuro-anatomical changes. That is, these findings "suggest" that childhood abuse not only causes BPD but also the very body chemistry changes that you are claiming to be the cause.

Like the studies you mention, Alphabet, these studies also fail to settle the matter and thus are heavily qualified with terms like "may be" and "suggested." To read more about those brain studies, see http://borderline-personality.suite101. ... _bpd_brain .

Catherine01 wrote:I plan to remind her that she is the service provider and I am the customer, that's if I go back to her in the new year.

I agree. Within reason, a service provider should give customers what they want. If you really want a diagnosis, they should provide it.

That said, do consider the advice of people who are saying the official diagnosis isn't worth that much. If your provider has "hinted" at NPD or BPD or whatever, that's enough information already to start researching and looking for info that will be helpful, as you are already doing. What exactly is the purpose of a precise diagnosis? Many psychologists don't really think the "boxes" exist in the first place, and the DSM is just a consensus by commitee that draws lines around different clusters of symptoms. It's better than nothing in situations where boxes really matter (especially insurance and law) but most therapists would rather focus on understand and treating an individual rather than a box.

DowntownDC wrote:Another concern, I understand, is that BPDers will terminate therapy if they hear the dreaded term "borderline," which misleadingly suggests "borderline psychotic"

The term "borderline" refers to the border of neurosis and psychosis, so it's not really misleading, except for the colloquial use of "psychotic" as a synonym for criminally insane. As a technical term, "psychosis" has a much more narrow meaning.

The argument about terminating therapy is quite valid, but I don't think it applies when the patient already knows what a personality disorder is and specifically asks for a diagnosis.

sfguy75x wrote:The term "borderline" refers to the border of neurosis and psychosis, so it's not really misleading....

SFguy, I would agree with you if most BPDers actually were on such a border where they were in danger of slipping into psychosis when confronted with high stress or a serious loss. The notion that they are vulnerable, being right on the edge of becoming psychotic, arose in the 1940s and 1950s. I agree with The Mayo Clinic's statement, "... that [borderline] view doesn't reflect current thinking" [mayoclinic.com].

The mental health community discarded the "borderline" view at least two decades ago due to studies showing otherwise. For example, a 1993 study of 92 inpatient BPDers at the Cornell Univ. Medical College, found that only 27% of them experienced a psychotic episode. For this reason, the "borderline" label has long been objected to by AAPEL, an association dedicated to helping those with BPD. The AAPEL explains that "[psychosis] is possible but not necessary. In the case of BPD it is probably better to speak about dissociation and not about 'real' psychotic symptom." AAPEL also observes that "the DSM criteria of BPD talk about 'severe dissociative symptoms' and not about psychotic symptom."

That said, I nonetheless recognize that you could make a logical argument for labeling every illness "borderline" if a substantial share of the victims experience a psychotic episode at some point in their lives. My foster son, for example, is Bipolar 1. I had to have him hospitalized nine times (over a 12 year period) for psychosis so severe that it usually was two months before he could be safely discharged. Like him, a substantial share of bipolar victims experience mania so severe that they slip from it into psychosis. Yet, because most bipolar people never do so, I do not see how changing the disorder's label to "borderline" would be useful. Moreover, it would be a misleading way to describe that group as a whole.

Squeekerz wrote:ANYWHO! For the most part, maybe you SHOULD listen to your doctor and focus less on the diagnosis.

Yes, I know you are right, and to be honest, right at this very moment my symptoms are not severe enough that I would register on a scale as having a personality disorder. But its only because I'm regularly taking medication and I've learned a lot about myself and I am participating fully in my own recovery.

Sadly, I'm starting to accept that for me, now its too late to get an 'official' box for myself. I've missed the box (boat) so to speak, I got too well before I could have the 'correct' label pinned on my heaving chest

I do have an official dx, but I'm not happy with it because its only part accurate, I don't believe it totally describes my journey and felt experience of life. Perhaps if I had told my psyche the absolute worst risks I took, but there are only so many minutes in a session and its hard to know what is relevant and what isn't.

..... a question?? If psychologists prefer not to hand out official diagnosi to their patients, why is so much time and effort put into compiling and updating that DSMV whatever... what is the purpose of it?