What is invalidation to you?

Sorry for lately coming up with "basic questions" threads, but I would really like to know what inavlidation in essence, means to you. Also, I have been into the enneagram lately so if you know your personality type and can link your feelings of invalidation to your personality in some way (doesn't have to be enneagram), I would appreciate it. Invalidation can be a lot of things, including telling someone their feelings are "bad" or crazy or straight up denying they feel that way. Or not understanding what someone NEEDS. I think for me that summarizes it well. I NEED someone to see the pain I am in and they are like...not understanding it. It really triggers me. So what is invalidation to you and how do you deal with it?

I like basic questions.

Can't really speak from experience, but I would consider the most likely scenario of invalidation to be when someone determines my emotions based on how I act, and discredits or underestimates the degree of what I'm really feeling if I attempt to explain it to them.

Also, for example, if I "ignore" someone when they speak to me by responding with only brief and blunt statements, 9 times out of 10 it's because I'm in a "leave me alone" mood and that's just what I want for a little while. But if they interpret it as me "just being moody" in a way that implies I'm the one who doesn't care, that's another feasible case of invalidation.

I'm unsure of the relation to personality. I identify as enneagram type 5, which could mean I'm liable to be perceived as something to the effect of 'estranged.' But that doesn't mean I don't feel emotions (Couldn't be further from the truth), nor does it mean I don't care about anyone, but it's something I could be labeled as, and I think I could be more susceptible to invalidation, as such.

Also, I believe a person who is more lively and outgoing might have their low points underestimated due to the fact that it's "not in their norm."

I'm not completely sure what invalidation means in the psychological sense, as you'd get in therapy or DBT.

I had to think about this for a while and I guess I feel invalidated by people having a joke at my expense. It's hard to explain.

The best examples of it are when people are unpleasant and rude to you, saying "I'm just being honest." I think nope, you are just being nasty and trying to make it socially acceptable.

Or, when they start teasing me under the guise of it being a joke, but it is basically mocking or unkind and designed to put me down and make them look good or feel better about themselves. Unless they are someone I really like, it's just not funny and I tend to assume that they know that they're upsetting me, but they're choosing to do it anyway.

The other one is backhanded compliments and subtle put downs. I am just not a catty person and can't compete with them on that level, nor would I want to.

I find all of that invalidating, I guess.

My enneagram type is 5.

validation for me is when someone shows that he cares.
invalidation is the opposite.when i tell someone my feelings and he hurts me.
like attack me,blameshift,say i am too sensitive,
etc,when he doesn’t care,when i am afraid to say my feelings.
for me i am not sure what is in general.
i do not understand what is the question with enneagram ? last time i got 4 & 5 & 6 higher i do not have very stable results they change.

Edit: also yes what you said when i am hurting or i am in pain and the other says is not important i have nothing

I NEED someone to see the pain I am in and they are like...not understanding it. It really triggers me.

Same for me, i got told "i work more hours than you" and i dont moan. i flipped my lid

I have always tried to see the other side and be considerate, but when they comments like "sup with your face" Oh here we go again" when i just ask a question...its like they go on auto ignorance then im not sure what im supposed to think (cant comment or it will be made into an argument)

Not nice memories ...nope

Edit to add
blameshift, i hate that game

@Echinacea I have always seen you as type 2 possibly, do you relate to that? It is a superego type and the primary fear is to be unloved. They are often wanting others to "appreciate" the things they do for them (this is true for 6 also) so as to feel like they have a power over the other person. Yes, 2 is a power player, and so is 8 and 5 apparently (5 being a power player is harder for me to understand). 2s deny their own feelings and needs for the sake of not appearing needy and being "good" and loving to those around them.

My enneagram type is 4 and for the longest time I have been wondering if I am equating my feelings to my identity or existence itself. "I feel therefore I exist." 4 is super-preoccupied with identity and who they are. So when I tell someone something upset me, and I don't beat around the bush. I tell them, "this ######6 upset me." Just pointing that out because I think some personality types are less direct/ vulnerable about it. Even THEN when the person is like it's an "overreaction" or I "shouldn't" really feel that way or they are not seeing the danger I am, I get super scared. It triggers something, I am not sure what. Even when I was on personality type forums and I would make type-me threads, I would feel threatened by someone not seeing who I feel like I am. I don't come to conclusion on "who I am" just like that. I have spent lot of time, energy and pretty much all my emotional resources to be able to face my worst and terrible memories and fears just so that I understand who I am. I have always done that. So when they don't see it, I feel like they don't see ME. It is terrifying.

oh i am not 2 at all.is what i get less with 8 from all letters.
actually i could be wrong about this but i think this is why i come out more independent and avoidant instead of needy and clingy completely.
or i come out more dominant and submissive half half.and not completely submissive.
i do not want to care about others more than they care about me.not at all.

They are often wanting others to "appreciate" the things they do for them (this is true for 6 also) so as to feel like they have a power over the other person.

Yes i do like being appreciated and not taken for granted, but i dont need power over them, hmm maybe when i was younger i had sexual power over them i guess, but my needs have changed. i need to be loved yes but ive learnt over 2 years that i needed to learn the difference between love and lust ...its totally different than how i used to think.

I am also dominant to a degree but submissive also. i like both depends.

the primary fear is to be unloved.

I learn very early in my childhood that my parents didnt have love so i learnt my own version of it. i dont fear not being loved i actually fear being loved because its disabling for me (if thats the right wording) i mean ..i have to feel needed not loved ..its odd to put in to words as my moods and needs change.

What i do know atm i love being semi balanced and if that means i have to stay single than thats what i will do (im to tired for all relationship drama)

RHETI Enneagram Type Indicator Results
The Nine Personality Types of the Enneagram

Type 1: The Reformer. The rational, idealistic type.
Type 2: The Helper. The caring, nurturing type.
Type 3: The Motivator. The adaptable, success-oriented type.
Type 4: The Artist. The intuitive, reserved type.
Type 5: The Thinker. The perceptive, cerebral type.
Type 6: The Skeptic. The committed, security-oriented type.
Type 7: The Generalist. The enthusiastic, productive type.
Type 8: The Leader. The powerful, aggressive type.
Type 9: The Peacemaker. The easygoing, accommodating type

Hmmm, i answered 37 of 38 questions (one didnt apply)

The Powerful aggressive type

Ahhh invalidation. I am all too familiar with that as I seem to be a master at INVALIDATING so I am told. I am too logical. I push away any emotional reasoning and I cant just FEEL things. My BPD GF is much less logical and uses emotional reasoning. She feels constantly invalidated because I try to talk to her with logic when she is expressing her feelings. Below is an example of how I invalidate and what NOT to do.

I come home from work and she is sitting on the couch. I walk over and put my arms around her, kiss her and tell her I love her. I go through the night holding her, randomly hugging her and kissing her. We watch a movie with her cuddling me.

Later that night she acts distant and sad. I ask her if something is wrong. She says she feels like I am acting distant. She feels like something is wrong because I don't show her love anymore. I am in complete shock and LOGICALLY think this is all wrong. She is mistaken.

I start telling her that I showed her affection all night and I was the one giving her random hugs and kisses all night and saying I loved her while she did not of that. I even shout out that she never once kissed me or said she loved me without me saying it first and say that I feel like she is not affectionate enough. I start telling her I want her to up her game and show me more affection. I say she is distant and it pisses me off that she accuses me of being distant. I tell her I cant handle this anymore and I don't even want to try right now.

This causes her to absolutely flip out. I haven't addressed her feelings at all. I flipped it. I felt blamed for her bad feeling and I turned it around and blamed her. That's probably part of my NPD. Invalidation hurts. I know and understand it. The reason I am so bad about invalidating is because her expression of feelings actually invalidates my own feelings about the situation. She wants to be validated but at that same time I feel invalidated and we blow up on each other.