How to forgive when nobody says sorry...

Victim of childhood abandonment and abuse.

I've long since given up hope of the perpetrators taking responsibility or admitting blame. My therapist describes me as harbouring murderous rage. It's exhausting.

I know I'll never forgive, but does anyone have any advice on moving on despite never receiving an apology from those who wronged you?

Thank you. All this is preventing me from sleeping so please forgive me if I'm rambling nonsensically.

Hey journey. I'm going to post a reply, don't go yet.


------

Okay, I was reading your post from my tablet while having a cig outside, and I rarely reply from my tablet.

My therapist told me something, and it's true, that you don't have to forgive anyone. It's a choice, and it's up to you or not. Even so, forgiving for something like childhood abuse and neglect is not remotely easy, and even if you choose to forgive, it can take years.

There's something called "abandonment depression" in psychology that I think we all have to work through at the end of the day, to recover. Working through your anger, rage, depression, grief, etc.

It's totally understandable that you have a hard time letting go, especially if no one has said sorry. I read your post about your mother, and I'm deeply sorry she had done that to you. I would be angry too if my mother was treating me like that! Among other things.

I think the key for you is working through your anger, not necessarily not being angry, you know? Screaming at your abusers is probably not advisable, but doing something constructive with you anger, or even less destructive. Screaming into a pillow, playing a video game, listening to rock music, are some things that help me.

I totally relate to the primitive, violent rage you're describing. It almost always comes out with my mother only, the one who tormented me, smothered and then withdrew/abused me. You're not alone with that.

And, it's also very understandable that you're angry for having a personality disorder. You may feel "flawed" for having it, and angry at the people who "gave" it to you.

You WILL recover from this, though.

NimplyDinply wrote:Hey journey. I'm going to post a reply, don't go yet.

Thank you. I won't.

Hi Journey,

I can relate to the rage. Before I was diagnosed and started receiving treatment I hit rock bottom where I lashed out as someone very publicly, using the only weapons I had at my disposal at that time - words. I paid for it dearly but also was able to get the help that I desperately needed. I am going to share with you an incredible powerful and effective technique to dealing with past trauma.

What I am having to do with childhood trauma is to re-live the situation in my mind. So what I do is sit down, usually in bed, hug a pillow close my eyes and remember the trauma. I see myself as I was a little scared child and the damage that is about to happen. I then inject my adult self into the picture and I come between the child and the abuser. In my mind's eye, I address the child and tell her that I am here now and everything is going to be ok. I am going to take care of her now. I pick her (my child self) into my arms and soothe her until she is not crying. Then I look into her eyes and I tell her, I am in charge now and I am going to take you away from this place and you never have to come back here. I then leave the scene with the child in my arms and we go to somewhere beautiful and safe. As I hold the pillow in my arms I pretend that it is my childhood self and I pour all the love and tenderness towards this child until I feel the pain leave me.

An alternative to this visualization, before you do the inner child work form above, is to face the abuser. Only do this if you feel strong enough and your inner child is already trusting you somewhat. So visualize the situation that is haunting you then inject yourself into the situation now see yourself standing between the child and the abuser. Grow yourself to ten feet tall if you need to in your mind and then face the abuser and command them to stop. Tell them they are not allowed to ever approach this child again, that you are taking care of the child now. Do not indulge in fantasies of revenge and violence, stopping the abuse is enough. Then once you have neutralized the abuser in your mind turn to the child and do the inner child work from above.

Repeat this as many times as you need to. What is key here is to NOT identify with the feelings of the child. Allow the feelings to flow but realize that you are now the adult, you are now in charge and in your mind act out the role of the care taking adult that you needed in that moment to step in and protect you. If the inner child needs to cry, allow yourself to cry and release the pain, but keep holding the pillow and do not identify with the pain so that it can leave so that you can release yourself from its chains.

I found this incredibly powerful and will in time teach you how to take better care of yourself in the now.

V

NimplyDinply wrote:Hey journey. I'm going to post a reply, don't go yet.


------

Okay, I was reading your post from my tablet while having a cig outside, and I rarely reply from my tablet.

My therapist told me something, and it's true, that you don't have to forgive anyone. It's a choice, and it's up to you or not. Even so, forgiving for something like childhood abuse and neglect is not remotely easy, and even if you choose to forgive, it can take years.

There's something called "abandonment depression" in psychology that I think we all have to work through at the end of the day, to recover. Working through your anger, rage, depression, grief, etc.

It's totally understandable that you have a hard time letting go, especially if no one has said sorry. I read your post about your mother, and I'm deeply sorry she had done that to you. I would be angry too if my mother was treating me like that! Among other things.

I think the key for you is working through your anger, not necessarily not being angry, you know? Screaming at your abusers is probably not advisable, but doing something constructive with you anger, or even less destructive. Screaming into a pillow, playing a video game, listening to rock music, are some things that help me.

I totally relate to the primitive, violent rage you're describing. It almost always comes out with my mother only, the one who tormented me, smothered and then withdrew/abused me. You're not alone with that.

And, it's also very understandable that you're angry for having a personality disorder. You may feel "flawed" for having it, and angry at the people who "gave" it to you.

You WILL recover from this, though.

Thank you very much for your response NimplyDinply. Truly very much appreciated.

I used to 'manage' my anger by getting drunk and fighting. I so regret that now as it never solved anything and has left me with a broken nose and quite a few scars.

I realise that my journey will be a lengthy one. I am the Journyman after all!

Thank you again for your kind words.

-- Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:13 pm --

violet8 wrote:Hi Journey,

I can relate to the rage. Before I was diagnosed and started receiving treatment I hit rock bottom where I lashed out as someone very publicly, using the only weapons I had at my disposal at that time - words. I paid for it dearly but also was able to get the help that I desperately needed. I am going to share with you an incredible powerful and effective technique to dealing with past trauma.

What I am having to do with childhood trauma is to re-live the situation in my mind. So what I do is sit down, usually in bed, hug a pillow close my eyes and remember the trauma. I see myself as I was a little scared child and the damage that is about to happen. I then inject my adult self into the picture and I come between the child and the abuser. In my mind's eye, I address the child and tell her that I am here now and everything is going to be ok. I am going to take care of her now. I pick her (my child self) into my arms and soothe her until she is not crying. Then I look into her eyes and I tell her, I am in charge now and I am going to take you away from this place and you never have to come back here. I then leave the scene with the child in my arms and we go to somewhere beautiful and safe. As I hold the pillow in my arms I pretend that it is my childhood self and I pour all the love and tenderness towards this child until I feel the pain leave me.

An alternative to this visualization, before you do the inner child work form above, is to face the abuser. Only do this if you feel strong enough and your inner child is already trusting you somewhat. So visualize the situation that is haunting you then inject yourself into the situation now see yourself standing between the child and the abuser. Grow yourself to ten feet tall if you need to in your mind and then face the abuser and command them to stop. Tell them they are not allowed to ever approach this child again, that you are taking care of the child now. Do not indulge in fantasies of revenge and violence, stopping the abuse is enough. Then once you have neutralized the abuser in your mind turn to the child and do the inner child work from above.

Repeat this as many times as you need to. What is key here is to NOT identify with the feelings of the child. Allow the feelings to flow but realize that you are now the adult, you are now in charge and in your mind act out the role of the care taking adult that you needed in that moment to step in and protect you. If the inner child needs to cry, allow yourself to cry and release the pain, but keep holding the pillow and do not identify with the pain so that it can leave so that you can release yourself from its chains.

I found this incredibly powerful and will in time teach you how to take better care of yourself in the now.

V

Hi violet8

Thank you so much for your response.

Your practical advice is much appreciated and I will put each and every suggestion into practice. After all, I can hardly whine about how I'm feeling unless I've tried everything.

I just so wish life wasn't so hard. But it is. And it's mine to negotiate.

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond. Still drowning, but still breathing.

You posted this at an interesting time for me because I very recently got some insight into this. My gf pushed me to figure out what I was angry at my dad for, and then to talk to him about it. I realized that I wasn't angry about the incidents of abusive behaviour themselves, but about the fact that the abuse happened at a time in my life where I needed the ones I loved to build me up. Instead, he not only neglected to be there for me - he actively tore me down with cruelty when he knew I was the most helpless. That's what I am angry about. Once I realized that, I was able to have that discussion with him when he asked me why us kids didn't like spending a lot of time around him.

So I told him, very calmly I might add (proud of myself) that he has said and done a lot of hurtful things, and I mentioned the fact that these things were done at points where I was at a low point and needed the most support. He did not apologize and I have come to realize he never will. He first tried to justify his behaviour by saying "well, let me tell you why I did that so you can understand, you did something to make me very angry." I said "I don't care what your reason is. That's a cruel thing to do to your own child and I will not accept any excuses from you. You asked me why we don't have a good relationship, and that's why - how can you expect me to trust someone who has hurt me so many times?" And he said "even if I was wrong there's no point in talking about it." I said "I want to know how you felt after you did that to me. Did you ever feel sorry? Did it bother you?" He goes "why are you psychoanalyzing me? It's over. There's nothing I can do for you, I can't give you anything."

And in that moment the truth hit me so all I said to him was "No. You can't." And the conversation ended.

Because he can't. He failed me and the conversation showed me he was not in the least sorry. He never gave it any thought, his tone, his behaviour, his body language, it told me there was not even the smallest tinge of empathy or regret. When I was a child and a teenager I was vulnerable and needed my family, it was a time in my life that I needed the support to grow into adulthood. And I didn't get it, in fact, he sabotaged that growth. So I had to do it without him, and also in spite of him. And now I am an adult. And I don't need him anymore. Parents, I think, have a unique opportunity to build a special relationship with their children when they're young because they are the main source of support we have - they can do that and reap the rewards of trust, respect, and closeness. Or they can neglect it. But as far as I am concerned my father missed the boat.

And I know it sounds weird, but that in and of itself has allowed me to let go of a lot of anger towards him. I'd consider it forgiveness in its own right. I think I was angry because I was holding out for something that I thought I needed - his remorse, his change of heart, perhaps even a revision to the past in some form. But I know now that I am not going to get that from him. I can't change what he has said and what he has done, but I don't have to carry around the pain, the anger, the false hopes anymore. For too long I have been letting myself believe the things he told me about myself. I thought that in order for me to stop believing those things, I would need his remorse, to justify that what he did was in the wrong. But no, I don't need remorse to be able to let go.

***TRIGGER WARNING***


I've been there and I think I'm mostly on the other side of it, but the anger will pop back up now and then for probably forever. My dad spent 12 years in prison for abusing me. He pled not guilty and forced me to testify throughout a 5-day trial where his attorney repeatedly posed questions to me trying to make me look like a jealous and vindictive kid. The last day was the punishment phase and his asshole lawyer asked me, "Do you want your dad to go to prison?" I burst into tears. "Of course not! He's my dad!" Which totally backfired on him in the eyes of the jury. At that point I wasn't angry, I was hurt. I became angry because the hurt was never addressed. My dad was sentenced to 12 years in prison. He served every single last day of it, despite coming up for parole every year. I believe that he never admitted guilt or expressed remorse to the parole board and that's why they never released him. It was risky because it meant he was thrown back into society without any supervision. The prosecutor on the case said he was the most cold-hearted defendant she had ever seen and that included murderers.

Of course, he made a lame attempt to "accept responsibility" after he was released. I can't even call it manipulation because everyone saw right through it. Sure buddy, it's only been 12 years, all is forgiven, do you have plans for Christmas? It makes me want to vomit, but it's nothing compared to my mother. I hope she never sees him because she would kill him with her bare hands. We say that can't happen, we can't have another parent go to jail, lol. I'm lucky because my family (3 siblings and entire extended family on both sides) has been very loving and supportive. I love our morbid little jokes.

I get through the anger not by forgiving—hell no, that will never happen, ever. It's by accepting that he is one whacked out individual who only cares about himself. The times I feel homicidal are when I think about what he did to my sisters, not to me. He could spend the rest of his life in prison getting assaulted by the other inmates and it wouldn't change my anger because nothing can change what he did—including an apology. My guess is if you got an apology now it would be too little, too late. It wouldn't change what they've done or rewind all the years that they said nothing, and the word of an abuser can never be trusted anyway.

My dad has a master's degree but he now lives in a storage room, probably surrounded by containers of his own urine. His life is destroyed. I'm angry that I feel sorry for him because I want to feel nothing. But I don't let the anger consume me. I think about all the hours my friends and family have invested in comforting me and I choose to ignore him and instead see the beautiful love that I have around me. You really see people's true colors when you are recovering from trauma, and I am lucky to be surrounded by so much love that his demented brain will never comprehend. I hope that you have love and support in your life, even if you just find it in yourself by rising above the situation and proving that you're not going to let them win. When I felt all alone I used to shut my eyes and repeat to myself, "I'm not going to let him win. I'm not going to let him win."

That's my story, from my heart. I hope some piece of it helps.

After writing a post about letting go I'm going back and reading other responses and getting worked up about all the psychos who gave us PDs! Lol. But moments of anger are healthy, we just have to try to keep it from ruling our lives.

witchessabbath wrote:You posted this at an interesting time for me because I very recently got some insight into this. My gf pushed me to figure out what I was angry at my dad for, and then to talk to him about it. I realized that I wasn't angry about the incidents of abusive behaviour themselves, but about the fact that the abuse happened at a time in my life where I needed the ones I loved to build me up. Instead, he not only neglected to be there for me - he actively tore me down with cruelty when he knew I was the most helpless. That's what I am angry about. Once I realized that, I was able to have that discussion with him when he asked me why us kids didn't like spending a lot of time around him.

So I told him, very calmly I might add (proud of myself) that he has said and done a lot of hurtful things, and I mentioned the fact that these things were done at points where I was at a low point and needed the most support. He did not apologize and I have come to realize he never will. He first tried to justify his behaviour by saying "well, let me tell you why I did that so you can understand, you did something to make me very angry." I said "I don't care what your reason is. That's a cruel thing to do to your own child and I will not accept any excuses from you. You asked me why we don't have a good relationship, and that's why - how can you expect me to trust someone who has hurt me so many times?" And he said "even if I was wrong there's no point in talking about it." I said "I want to know how you felt after you did that to me. Did you ever feel sorry? Did it bother you?" He goes "why are you psychoanalyzing me? It's over. There's nothing I can do for you, I can't give you anything."

And in that moment the truth hit me so all I said to him was "No. You can't." And the conversation ended.

Because he can't. He failed me and the conversation showed me he was not in the least sorry. He never gave it any thought, his tone, his behaviour, his body language, it told me there was not even the smallest tinge of empathy or regret. When I was a child and a teenager I was vulnerable and needed my family, it was a time in my life that I needed the support to grow into adulthood. And I didn't get it, in fact, he sabotaged that growth. So I had to do it without him, and also in spite of him. And now I am an adult. And I don't need him anymore. Parents, I think, have a unique opportunity to build a special relationship with their children when they're young because they are the main source of support we have - they can do that and reap the rewards of trust, respect, and closeness. Or they can neglect it. But as far as I am concerned my father missed the boat.

And I know it sounds weird, but that in and of itself has allowed me to let go of a lot of anger towards him. I'd consider it forgiveness in its own right. I think I was angry because I was holding out for something that I thought I needed - his remorse, his change of heart, perhaps even a revision to the past in some form. But I know now that I am not going to get that from him. I can't change what he has said and what he has done, but I don't have to carry around the pain, the anger, the false hopes anymore. For too long I have been letting myself believe the things he told me about myself. I thought that in order for me to stop believing those things, I would need his remorse, to justify that what he did was in the wrong. But no, I don't need remorse to be able to let go.

Hi witchessabbath

Thank you very much for such a candidly honest response. I could feel each of the emotions you must've experienced throughout the process you describe.

One aspect will remain me for a while. Our parents do have a unique opportunity to support us when we're young. To be a parent is an honour really as many compassionate people aren't afforded the opportunity. If our parents fail to make the most of that opportunity by abandoning or abusing us, why should we even care about forgiveness?

Truly appreciate your reply.

Leili wrote:***TRIGGER WARNING***


I've been there and I think I'm mostly on the other side of it, but the anger will pop back up now and then for probably forever. My dad spent 12 years in prison for abusing me. He pled not guilty and forced me to testify throughout a 5-day trial where his attorney repeatedly posed questions to me trying to make me look like a jealous and vindictive kid. The last day was the punishment phase and his asshole lawyer asked me, "Do you want your dad to go to prison?" I burst into tears. "Of course not! He's my dad!" Which totally backfired on him in the eyes of the jury. At that point I wasn't angry, I was hurt. I became angry because the hurt was never addressed. My dad was sentenced to 12 years in prison. He served every single last day of it, despite coming up for parole every year. I believe that he never admitted guilt or expressed remorse to the parole board and that's why they never released him. It was risky because it meant he was thrown back into society without any supervision. The prosecutor on the case said he was the most cold-hearted defendant she had ever seen and that included murderers.

Of course, he made a lame attempt to "accept responsibility" after he was released. I can't even call it manipulation because everyone saw right through it. Sure buddy, it's only been 12 years, all is forgiven, do you have plans for Christmas? It makes me want to vomit, but it's nothing compared to my mother. I hope she never sees him because she would kill him with her bare hands. We say that can't happen, we can't have another parent go to jail, lol. I'm lucky because my family (3 siblings and entire extended family on both sides) has been very loving and supportive. I love our morbid little jokes.

I get through the anger not by forgiving—hell no, that will never happen, ever. It's by accepting that he is one whacked out individual who only cares about himself. The times I feel homicidal are when I think about what he did to my sisters, not to me. He could spend the rest of his life in prison getting assaulted by the other inmates and it wouldn't change my anger because nothing can change what he did—including an apology. My guess is if you got an apology now it would be too little, too late. It wouldn't change what they've done or rewind all the years that they said nothing, and the word of an abuser can never be trusted anyway.

My dad has a master's degree but he now lives in a storage room, probably surrounded by containers of his own urine. His life is destroyed. I'm angry that I feel sorry for him because I want to feel nothing. But I don't let the anger consume me. I think about all the hours my friends and family have invested in comforting me and I choose to ignore him and instead see the beautiful love that I have around me. You really see people's true colors when you are recovering from trauma, and I am lucky to be surrounded by so much love that his demented brain will never comprehend. I hope that you have love and support in your life, even if you just find it in yourself by rising above the situation and proving that you're not going to let them win. When I felt all alone I used to shut my eyes and repeat to myself, "I'm not going to let him win. I'm not going to let him win."

That's my story, from my heart. I hope some piece of it helps.

Hi Leili

Thank you so much for your heartfelt response. Your posts always move me, and non more so than this.

There is so much that I identify with and that resonates with me. Could I possibly ask you to answer one question for me..?

Obviously, your father's prison sentence, and his empty life subsequently, can do little to repair the damage that he did, but is there a small part of you that is comforted by the fact that he was shamed publically and, albeit insufficiently, punished? I ask because my perpetrators were never forced to admit any culpability. Never punished. I just can't get it out of my head that I'd feel a sense of satisfaction if they were blamed and shamed and punished, rather than living with impunity in their comfortable houses day after day.

I'm sorry for turning this back on me again, and for being clumsy in my narratives. I am, as always, very tired indeed.

Thank you so much again for your reply Leili.