BPD without known childhood abuse/trauma?

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to my mood swings, depression, and anxiety, but months ago I learned that the mood swings related to bipolarity aren't really affected by external situations since it's internal, chemical. The BPD mood swings, however, are caused by external situations, which I relate to heavily. I can be incredibly optimistic and happy-for-no-reason that it makes me cry, then suddenly I can be depressive, suicidal, worthless hopeless feeling--little things and sometimes almost nothing at all can make me swing, and it's exhausting. I self-harm when overwhelmed with emotion/anxiety, and have chronic emptiness/boredom, identity issues, bad anxiety, depression, paranoia, transient dissociation, and abandonment fears, among other things.

After looking up every personality disorder and ruling out bipolar disorder I've come to the conclusion that I've got BPD. My therapist says it's likely, but she won't diagnose since she doesn't have enough experience with BPD. I'm 99.9% sure I have BPD and don't have bipolar disorder, and I have pretty much every symptom of BPD, inlcuding a myriad of little things that I've discovered are related to BPD after lots of research. I cried a few times reading something I related with so much because it felt like finally I understood why I feel this way. The only thing is that I don't believe I was abused or traumatized as a child. I've read that abuse/trauma isn't a *requirement* for BPD, just something that many with BPD have in common. I'm wondering how many of you have been diagnosed with BPD yet don't have any known trauma/abuse in your past? Did it make getting diagnosed harder for you? What symptoms/experiences do you have with BPD?

Parenting style Warabou. Are your parents Mild Borderlines (Covert Narcissists)? I suspect they are. I'm thinking Claire Danes and her husband; whose name I can't remember. Him out of Hannibal!

Hi Warabou

Interesting question.

Can you describe how your childhood was? Was it a happy childhood?

When did your Bipolar/BPD symptoms begin?

I remembered only an idyllic childhood all my life, until I started therapy about a year ago.

Then surprise, surprise. I had managed to bury a lot of painful stuff.

Is it possible you could be the same?

justagirl00 wrote:Hi Warabou

Interesting question.

Can you describe how your childhood was? Was it a happy childhood?

When did your Bipolar/BPD symptoms begin?

To be honest I don't remember too much. The only stuff I know about my childhood is what I've seen on home videos and a few of my own fuzzy memories. I seemed happy enough, but apparently I've always been sensitive, so I guess I cried a lot. My mom told me a few weeks ago that I used to always call for her "Mom, mom, mom, mom" until she'd answer me, then I wouldn't have anything to say. Does this mean I was desperate for attention? Maybe she was ignoring me? I think both of my parents were working a lot when I was born, my mom was a manager at a shoe store and my dad was an overworked engineer; my mom says she almost left my dad because he was always working and never home. I think I had to be babysat a lot, but I'm not sure. I should ask my mom more about this stuff but I have a hard time talking to either of my parents. My mom even told me recently that I don't have a relationship with either of them, and that I just hide out in my room and don't connect with either of them. Made me really sad to hear her say that I don't have a relationship with either of them but it's kind of true. I feel so uncomfortable around my family, I feel like an outsider. My siblings all are able to hangout with my parents and be normal, but I feel very anxious and don't know how to communicate with them.

I don't know when my symptoms began, really. It feels like I've always been this way, but I do know it got worse when I moved to England in 9th grade. We had to move for my dad's job, and I had to leave all my friends. I remember being so afraid that they'd forget about me and not wanna be my friend when I moved back, and when I did move back I felt like they didn't care about me or didn't like me. That's when my depression and anxiety and stuff really kicked in, I think, when I was about 12 or 13.

Maybe unrelated but I just remembered when I was at my old house (I must've been like 7 years old or less), I was talking to my best friend in my room and he was saying how his grandpa was dying. I *think* I kept quizzing him asking if he cared more about his grandpa or about me, wanting to hear that he cared more about me..? It's a very fuzzy memory but I remember something along those lines, and I think it wasn't the only time I did something like that. Is this some sort of manifestation of abandonment fears? I'm trying to see how early I had symptoms like that, but I can't remember that much, which is really frustrating.

Fille wrote:I remembered only an idyllic childhood all my life, until I started therapy about a year ago.

Then surprise, surprise. I had managed to bury a lot of painful stuff.

Is it possible you could be the same?

It's definitely possible. I don't remember much of my childhood, like specific memories or just how I felt in general (happy/sad?) It's just a big grey area for me, aside from the home videos. But those obviously don't show everything, not even close, and don't show how I was feeling, so I'm at a loss as to how I should find out more about how I was as a child. Feels like I'll never really know

warabou wrote:

justagirl00 wrote:Hi Warabou

Interesting question.

Can you describe how your childhood was? Was it a happy childhood?

When did your Bipolar/BPD symptoms begin?

To be honest I don't remember too much. The only stuff I know about my childhood is what I've seen on home videos and a few of my own fuzzy memories. I seemed happy enough, but apparently I've always been sensitive, so I guess I cried a lot. My mom told me a few weeks ago that I used to always call for her "Mom, mom, mom, mom" until she'd answer me, then I wouldn't have anything to say. Does this mean I was desperate for attention? Maybe she was ignoring me? I think both of my parents were working a lot when I was born, my mom was a manager at a shoe store and my dad was an overworked engineer; my mom says she almost left my dad because he was always working and never home. I think I had to be babysat a lot, but I'm not sure. I should ask my mom more about this stuff but I have a hard time talking to either of my parents. My mom even told me recently that I don't have a relationship with either of them, and that I just hide out in my room and don't connect with either of them. Made me really sad to hear her say that I don't have a relationship with either of them but it's kind of true. I feel so uncomfortable around my family, I feel like an outsider. My siblings all are able to hangout with my parents and be normal, but I feel very anxious and don't know how to communicate with them.

I don't know when my symptoms began, really. It feels like I've always been this way, but I do know it got worse when I moved to England in 9th grade. We had to move for my dad's job, and I had to leave all my friends. I remember being so afraid that they'd forget about me and not wanna be my friend when I moved back, and when I did move back I felt like they didn't care about me or didn't like me. That's when my depression and anxiety and stuff really kicked in, I think, when I was about 12 or 13.

Maybe unrelated but I just remembered when I was at my old house (I must've been like 7 years old or less), I was talking to my best friend in my room and he was saying how his grandpa was dying. I *think* I kept quizzing him asking if he cared more about his grandpa or about me, wanting to hear that he cared more about me..? It's a very fuzzy memory but I remember something along those lines, and I think it wasn't the only time I did something like that. Is this some sort of manifestation of abandonment fears? I'm trying to see how early I had symptoms like that, but I can't remember that much, which is really frustrating.

Warabou, that could be pretty traumatic. Having to leave all your friends and move to another country in 9th grade. Friends are very important during that time.

Most pwBPD experienced abuse and trauma even earlier though. Like, before the age of 5. But you say you don't remember much of your childhood, so of course its possible that things happened that you don't remember.

Some people are just born with a naturally sensitive disposition. It sounds like you were. And that tends to be a precursor to BPD also.

With PDs, the genes load the gun, and environment pulls the trigger. That's a theory, anyways.

Even if parents are not overtly abusive, if there is a mismatch between parenting style and disposition, that could be enough of a trigger if the sensitive disposition is already there.

justagirl00 wrote:Warabou, that could be pretty traumatic. Having to leave all your friends and move to another country in 9th grade. Friends are very important during that time.

Most pwBPD experienced abuse and trauma even earlier though. Like, before the age of 5. But you say you don't remember much of your childhood, so of course its possible that things happened that you don't remember.

Some people are just born with a naturally sensitive disposition. It sounds like you were. And that tends to be a precursor to BPD also.

With PDs, the genes load the gun, and environment pulls the trigger. That's a theory, anyways.

Even if parents are not overtly abusive, if there is a mismatch between parenting style and disposition, that could be enough of a trigger if the sensitive disposition is already there.

I was told that you can't really have a PD if you didn't have the traumatic event or whatever before age 5, so 9th grade just feels way too late to count for me, but I know that's when things started getting real bad. I felt so isolated being the only American in my year, having the accent that stood out I hated being heard.

Is it normal to not remember much of your childhood? I feel like most people would only have a few fuzzy memories, like me, but do most people have a lot of clear ones and generally know how they felt?

I'm sure I was born with a very sensitive disposition. With BPD, does one of your parents have to have some sort of BPD gene for you to have it? I know my mom had a rough childhood and was a latchkey kid, so if either of my parents has BPD it's her, but I don't think she does. She has some stuff but she doesn't know what, like maybe some ADHD and she told me once that she used to be depressed. Could I have BPD without having a parent with BPD and without having early childhood trauma?

The most traumatic thing I can think of that could've happened to me was when I was 1yr old or less and my sister apparently threw something at me. Whatever hit me sent me flying into the wood corner of the foot of the couch and cut my eyebrow up and I had to get stitches. I'm not sure what she was doing or what she threw or anything other than I was very young and had to get stitches. Could it be she used to abuse me and I was just too young to remember..? She's only a couple years older than me. We used to be best friends when I was little, we would play games together like "mailman" and tea parties, but then at some point it changed and she started hating me. I don't know when this change happened, it was a long time ago, but she became very mean toward me and we would only fight, and there's still animosity though she seems to have calmed down some. I don't know if this could have anything to do with it? Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I've just been so confused and my memory is so hazy but I have a strong desire to get to the bottom of this.

warabou wrote:

justagirl00 wrote:Warabou, that could be pretty traumatic. Having to leave all your friends and move to another country in 9th grade. Friends are very important during that time.

Most pwBPD experienced abuse and trauma even earlier though. Like, before the age of 5. But you say you don't remember much of your childhood, so of course its possible that things happened that you don't remember.

Some people are just born with a naturally sensitive disposition. It sounds like you were. And that tends to be a precursor to BPD also.

With PDs, the genes load the gun, and environment pulls the trigger. That's a theory, anyways.

Even if parents are not overtly abusive, if there is a mismatch between parenting style and disposition, that could be enough of a trigger if the sensitive disposition is already there.

I was told that you can't really have a PD if you didn't have the traumatic event or whatever before age 5, so 9th grade just feels way too late to count for me, but I know that's when things started getting real bad. I felt so isolated being the only American in my year, having the accent that stood out I hated being heard.

Is it normal to not remember much of your childhood? I feel like most people would only have a few fuzzy memories, like me, but do most people have a lot of clear ones and generally know how they felt?

I'm sure I was born with a very sensitive disposition. With BPD, does one of your parents have to have some sort of BPD gene for you to have it? I know my mom had a rough childhood and was a latchkey kid, so if either of my parents has BPD it's her, but I don't think she does. She has some stuff but she doesn't know what, like maybe some ADHD and she told me once that she used to be depressed. Could I have BPD without having a parent with BPD and without having early childhood trauma?

The most traumatic thing I can think of that could've happened to me was when I was 1yr old or less and my sister apparently threw something at me. Whatever hit me sent me flying into the wood corner of the foot of the couch and cut my eyebrow up and I had to get stitches. I'm not sure what she was doing or what she threw or anything other than I was very young and had to get stitches. Could it be she used to abuse me and I was just too young to remember..? She's only a couple years older than me. We used to be best friends when I was little, we would play games together like "mailman" and tea parties, but then at some point it changed and she started hating me. I don't know when this change happened, it was a long time ago, but she became very mean toward me and we would only fight, and there's still animosity though she seems to have calmed down some. I don't know if this could have anything to do with it? Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I've just been so confused and my memory is so hazy but I have a strong desire to get to the bottom of this.

No problem, you can ask questions here

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I'm sure that must have been traumatic.

I'm not saying you don't have BPD, but, just to answer your questions, from what I understand, the type of trauma that usually results in BPD is some sort of abandonment (parental death, divorce, adoption, etc.), an invalidating environment (always being told you are wrong), and parental failure to protect you from abuse (usually sexual). BPD usually happens when the child is not allowed to create their own identity, and have a sense of loss of control over their own boundaries. That is why so many pwBPD have been sexually abused, and/or invalidated when they told anyone about the abuse.

As for the memories, most of my memories are very vivid of my childhood, even before the age of 3. I remember a lot of trauma and abuse. I don't know how it is for others. I always had the impression my memory was more vivid and clear than most people, although I'm not sure what accounts for this.

I think most pwBPD usually do either have a parent with NPD and/or BPD. It does seem to run in families. I believe there is a gene that is responsible for it and you tend to see it over generations. Similar to Bipolar, it tends to run in families.

It doesn't mean you don't have BPD, but it is good to look at all sides of the equation. That is why diagnosis can be difficult. The same "symptoms" can have different sources and causes, coming from different disorders. Diagnosis really is an art rather than a science.

Do you have any problems with identity? Do you often change your goals for the future? Do you have trouble knowing who you are, what you want, what you feel, etc.? Do you change your clothing style, hair color, musical tastes, etc., often? That is a common symptom of BPD as well, that is usually distinct from Bipolar or other disorders.

justagirl00 wrote:No problem, you can ask questions here

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I'm sure that must have been traumatic.

I'm not saying you don't have BPD, but, just to answer your questions, from what I understand, the type of trauma that usually results in BPD is some sort of abandonment (parental death, divorce, adoption, etc.), an invalidating environment (always being told you are wrong), and parental failure to protect you from abuse (usually sexual). BPD usually happens when the child is not allowed to create their own identity, and have a sense of loss of control over their own boundaries. That is why so many pwBPD have been sexually abused, and/or invalidated when they told anyone about the abuse.

As for the memories, most of my memories are very vivid of my childhood, even before the age of 3. I remember a lot of trauma and abuse. I don't know how it is for others. I always had the impression my memory was more vivid and clear than most people, although I'm not sure what accounts for this.

I think most pwBPD usually do either have a parent with NPD and/or BPD. It does seem to run in families. I believe there is a gene that is responsible for it and you tend to see it over generations. Similar to Bipolar, it tends to run in families.

It doesn't mean you don't have BPD, but it is good to look at all sides of the equation. That is why diagnosis can be difficult. The same "symptoms" can have different sources and causes, coming from different disorders. Diagnosis really is an art rather than a science.

Do you have any problems with identity? Do you often change your goals for the future? Do you have trouble knowing who you are, what you want, what you feel, etc.? Do you change your clothing style, hair color, musical tastes, etc., often? That is a common symptom of BPD as well, that is usually distinct from Bipolar or other disorders.

I wonder if my mom has BPD to some degree. Is it possible to have the gene but the environmental factors not trigger it, like a dormant gene?

I do have problems with identity. I've changed majors multiple times and can never focus on one thing for very long before I lose interest and take up something else, I feel very inconsistent and wish I could just stick with something and get really good at it like other people can do. I don't even know myself enough to make decisions on my own, I have to ask friends or even waiters what I should order when I'm getting food. I'm incredibly indecisive because I just never know what I want. I was afraid in high school because I didn't know what I actually believed in, like I went from Republican to Communist to Anarchist to Democrat to Libertarian to Independent, politically, and from Christian to Atheist to Buddhist to Agnostic, religiously. I never feel settled. My life just feels like one big "?" question mark