Things r great inside my head, but what's going on in hers?

I'm dealing with a situation, which hopefully someone with BPD or who understands a BPD person can provide insight. I originally posted in the HPD forum and some suggested my friend crossed over into the BPD arena. It's been awhile since I lasted posted and there are reasons why I have returned. Let me explain...

The helpful advice I received from the others was basically to move on, which I pretty much had done. I heeded their advice but modified it because we both worked together and I'd have to adjust accordingly without appearing to being an ass. Keep the peace so to speak. Thanks to some of your thoughts written here I was able to better understand her and define what was in my best interest.

The results were good for me. I stopped stressing over her and was able to redefine or better understand our boundaries. I basically retreated to the friendly coworker category. Although each encounter was friendly and uplifting to her, I wasn't the needy "Can I be in your fan club" guy she once dealt with. I stopped visiting her and left it up to her to maintain the relationship. Well, in her own mind, I don't think she was too satisfied because she made up reasons to visit me. This seemed to meet both our needs without the drama.

Okay, I mistakenly thought we could carry this forward a bit by just having lunch together. I invite her to lunch and as expected, she flakes. I didn't react, but I also made it known to her through my actions that what she did was unacceptable. She knew she screwed up. I altogether blew her off. For example, she would come join my group during a break and I wouldn't give her any special attention as expected. This seemed to have set the wheels in motion for her to go into an inner rage. Of which I've never seen the likes of. She was hunched over with a snarl and these piercing eyes. Like one of those gargoyles in the movies. It was pretty frightening but I've dealt with her being angry at me before. So, I didn't react at all. Treated her with a business as usual attitude.

She claimed she had a major fight with her bf, but what would that have to do with her taking it out on me? I mean, the only person she exhibited her anger to was myself. Through e-mails and and other methods, she was very condescending. I'm inclined to think she made up the fight with her bf story, and the real person she was fighting with inside her head was me. Let me explain, The issues her bf was upset over (including his reaction) were coincidentally things she had previously said specifically to me thru e-mail. My reaction was a carbon copy of his. What is going through this woman's head?

The only other significant reason she demonstrated this rage is because of my non-chalance to her possibly transferring to another position outside our office. She would fish for me to tell her not to go and how she would be missed dearly. I feel as though she thinks I'm in some way abandoning her.

She would seek my advice on the interview process and what to expect. We discussed the pros and cons of taking the job. It didn't make sense as to why she would leave considering she would be a grade level lower and her whole motivation in the first place is more money. I'm almost inclined to think she's not going anywhere and is making this all up.

The reason being. She shows up today saying she has a second interview and needs my advice. Again, I help her formulate her thoughts. But now I decide I'm going to play up the we'll miss you to the hilt role b ecause I suspect that's what she wants. Her reaction was unbelievable. She told me I was going to make her stay afterall. She wouldn't stop smiling and I couldn't get her way from my desk. She was like an infatuated child. In fact, she returned 10 minutes later with another item she received totally unrelated but I knew my cue was to provide her praise and reassurance. It worked. I had made her day.

Okay here's the thing. I think in some ways, I've become that parental male figure to her. Mainly because I've been steady with her brush aside her childish behavior and make her feel special. I show enormous respect and give her value. Is this the right approach or is there a better method where the BPD will be less defensive?

To a BPD, does it ever get too exhausting to participate in the push/pull pattern? To the point where you seek another person to initiate everything all over again? Thus, the reason for seeking another job?

Does a BPD write a script in their mind to be played out at a later date? It just seems she is manipulating things according to some kind of game plan. I've noticed, she has ever so slowly begun to expose herself to me. Whether it's pointing out her neighborhood, taking me to lunch in an area considered her territory or expressing some of her fears and insecurities. It's like she's really starting to trust me. Maybe in some way this correlates to her rage.

I just don't know.

the first girlfriend i ever had was a bpd. i didn't know it when i was living with her or for a while after we broke up but one day she came to me and apologized for how she treated me and told me the reason she had been so bad to me was because she had bpd. she was diagnosed by a professional. she didn't know what was wrong with her before that...anger, defensive, rage, chronic meaningless cheating, drug use, impulsive, etc.

i never knew i meant anything to her, even when we were living together. after we broke up (she cheated on me when we were together with at least 3 people, i know about) i stuck around as her friend. she dated all sorts of people but i was always around as her friend. she still tried to control me. she knew i still had feelings for her and used it to her advantage. three years passed and i finally met someone i fell for and instantly my feelings for her vanished for good into thin air. when i saw her again she knew instantly, without me even breathing a word, that i was finally, after five years over her. she broke down in tears and told me she was an awful person. after that when i would see her she would always come onto me despite the fact she was dating many other people.

so what i am trying to say is this. she went from a devalued view of me (when we were together and after when i still had feelings for her) to putting me up on a pedestal (in her mind) at almost the exact moment she knew i no longer cared. that was almost ten years ago and i still hear from people how she still loves me, etc. bpd's and i guess bpd/hpd women's whole schtick really is this...'they want what they cannot have' and they value and devalue back and forth depending on their perception of how you feel about them and how much you are willing to put up with. they respect someone with boundaries. if they feel you are their door mat you will be treated as such.

if you can follow this mindset in your intearctions with her on a daily basis, it may work out for you. but, it is always a game plan you have to keep up. she wants you to boost up her self image, make her feel good, treat her well, but not too well, always keep her on her toes. this is love to her.

i am no expert (i don't have a degree) but i feel my many dealings with these women has caused me to wonder if i have a problem as well. it seems i have issues too. we must question that about ourselves. after my last experience with an hpd (where i fell hard) i really started to discover and search out the written info on pd's and i have to admit to myself that in the past i have only been attracted to women with bpd and hpd. i have an ideal just like they do. i have alot of work to do on myself to get out of this cycle so i can allow myself to become interested in a normal, no drama woman.

so before you delve any further into this exciting but toxic maze you are entering...ask yourself why? and is it worth the pain you will undoubtedly experience. yes, shooting up heroin is fun but it becomes an addiction, a fun but painful addiction.

She claimed she had a major fight with her bf, but what would that have to do with her taking it out on me?

yes, she was upset over you and used her bf as an excuse to cover up her behaviour, which she was embarrased about because she once again could not control her emotions in public. plus, she didn't want to let you know you were getting to her. she wants to be the one in control. the control issue is a fine line with a bpd/hpd though. they want someone who is in control (has power, self control, strong) but they also want to be able to control their goings on with this percieved strong figure through the use of their charms, etc. it is truly a fine line you must walk to not rock her boat.

She would fish for me to tell her not to go and how she would be missed dearly. I feel as though she thinks I'm in some way abandoning her.

yes, she wanted you to let her know you wanted her to stay. she is petrified that anyone she has allowed herself to feel feelings for might abandon her. so she was preparing to abandon you before you abandoned her. but, at the last minute you let her know you wanted her to stay and that made her very happy. she didn't really want to leave. she wanted to get a reaction out of you.

Okay here's the thing. I think in some ways, I've become that parental male figure to her. Mainly because I've been steady with her brush aside her childish behavior and make her feel special. I show enormous respect and give her value. Is this the right approach or is there a better method where the BPD will be less defensive?

i believe you are playing your cards perfectly. seems like she is falling for your parental figure game. but, that can change like the wind if you don't keep it up. she could go from valuing you to devaluing you in a heartbeat...if she is a true bpd/hpd. which, it seems by her atypical behaviour she most certainly is. just keep doing what you are doing.

about the defensiveness part, they can become defensive at any time, about anything, depending on the mood they are in.

Does a BPD write a script in their mind to be played out at a later date? It just seems she is manipulating things according to some kind of game plan.

i don't really know the answer to this question. for sure their behaviour is hard-wired into their disorder. i think some more than others may use their innate abilities to get to others as a weapon. some just do it on instinct and seem to be completely unaware what they are doing and even when it is pointed out will deny it.

i wish you the best of luck, don't let your heart get too involved!!!

Soulsearch

i am no expert (i don't have a degree) but i feel my many dealings with these women has caused me to wonder if i have a problem as well. it seems i have issues too. we must question that about ourselves.

You've brought up something that I can relate to , and I've been struggling to find answers to. What is it that causes me to be drawn to her? The capturing of my heart is long past (and she no longer has it), but it's this winning the game thing that keeps popping up. Am I in someway enjoying the drama, too? Can I capture her heart and be the one in the position of power. Why do I require this need to be loved by her?

I don't ever anticipate having a "normal" relationship with this girl. So, why waste my time. Maybe it's because I do enjoy her company. Work isn't the most exciting job to do so why not. I just feel I have too much preoccupation with her. Wondering when she's going to come around. What's her manipulation strategy?
You know. What's she planning to do to get a rise out of me.

Also, there is this messing with fire thing that kind of intrigues me. How close can I get to her without getting burned? It's amazing that I would want to put myself in this position. Don't get me wrong. I do not see her as some toy to play with because I do like her, but I think deep down inside, this has to be a contributing factor as to why I'm drawn to her.

Lastly, maybe I'm just gullible for a pretty face requiring saving. It's instinctual. I guess.

Don't get me wrong. I do not see her as some toy to play with because I do like her, but I think deep down inside, this has to be a contributing factor as to why I'm drawn to her.

she is drawn to a lot of people in the beginning. she attempts to make connections with everyone in her sphere but gets tired of them quickly as it it the unknown, the spontaneous quality of new connections that gives her a good feeling. don't feel bad. you are not using her or treating her like a toy or doing this simply because you want to have power over her. she obviously did something to you thru her hard-wired manipulation to reel you in, twist your emotions and make you confused about how you actually feel for her and how you should proceed next. you obviously care about her or you wouldn't be here, right...

What's she planning to do to get a rise out of me.

that sounds like something i would have said. i told the woman i cared for with hpd/bpd quite a few times that i didn't want to continue with her and that it was over but she would always try and do little things to get a rise out of me. deep inside me i still cared so much but i just couldn't show it anymore. it was like i was shell shocked or emotionally damaged and drained from her.

so, i would recommend, just go with the flow. just be careful though. you are playing with fire and you don't want it to blow up in your face.

What is it that causes me to be drawn to her?

Perhap's it is the idea of what you once could have been.

I think BPD is being painted up to much as them having game's they actully arent cruel and dont manipulate to the extent and for...um, bad reasons like the other cluster B's.

One theory is BPD is a different form of a dissasociative disorder.

they actully arent cruel and dont manipulate to the extent and for...um, bad reasons like the other cluster B's.

that is true. bpd's seem to operate from a more extreme point of reference, seem to be more saddened and depressed about how they treat people, feel guilt, the rage at time comes from the the vantage point of being so painfully insecure at times that they take everything as a slight. also, my first girlfriend (diagnosed bpd) was very apologetic and seemed to be racked with guilt over the way she treated me and to this day when i see her (once a year or so she treats me very well).

hpd's on the other hand (at least the disingenuous type with more anti-social self serving leanings) ... at least the two i know are very controlled in their manipulation, their anger at being slighted seems to come more from a pride perspective rather than sadness or insecurity and they will pull out all the stops to get someone's attention and once they get it they become mean...to put it simply, just mean.

the hpd platonic friend i had tried to get this guy for ten years. she was treated badly by him for ten years (not sure if he is npd or npd/aspd or just an a**hole with no ability to really feel any emotions)...but she finally convinced him to marry her and then right after that she didn't want him anymore. she seemed to take great sadistic pleasure in one-upping him. i'll never forget the look on her face during that time. very sarcastic, snide. you had to see it.

as for bpd/hpd's...who knows. that is one for a trained psychologist specializing in pd's. but, my guess is every one would be different in how and when they would have more pronounced traits from either or...or whether it would be 50/50...

Thanks Guys for the additional insight!

The last few days have welcomed more manipulation on her part. Vey light but still present. Let me explain.

Yesterday, she played the pop in pop out game with me. What I mean is she would stop by say hello and take off. Not wating for a response. Happily to say I ignored her. About an hour later, she called me up and asked me a totally off the wall statistics question, which I asked what was her point of asking the question. Her response was to get me to think. To which I responded she has done that on a number of occassions.

Later on in the day she comes by to just talk about nothing except herself. During our interaction, I was flirtateous with her or maybe complimentary towards her is a better way of putting it. I even jokingly (with slight sarcasm) said "I love you, too". Her reaction was like a giddy little school girl.

Now today.... She comes by supposively to thank a coworker across from me for giving her a Christmas card. But she maybe spent 2 minutes with her and then she was on me about her interview and how she looked etc. I offer her some of my remaining morning snack. She readily takes it and leaves.

Later in the day she e-mails me with some basic interview questions. I answer her by asking her how she would respond.
She responds with a simple non-helpful answer. And before I could even help shape her answers she is on the phone asking why it takes so long for me to respond. What's up with that?

Now, she's at my desk talking to me for 20 mins. About the interview and other things going on in her life. Such as how she sees her bf only on the weekends (Sat/Sun) and really no other time. The live 30 mins away from each other. I suggested they move in together and she said she wouldn't move in and rent (he's saving to own a place). I asked about thier future plans and she's hoping they get married in two years and have a family because that is a dream come true. However, just a few weeks back she said she wouldn't want kids because of the environment they have to grow up in. I asked her wher's the ring and then she says she doesn't want to take things too fast. lol. The contradictions are amazing.

From my discussions with her in the past, I would venture to say he's probably tired of her and she's covering up because when we discussed marraige she didn't seem optimistic in her tone and body language.

We banter back and forth and everything is just swell. She tells me her boss offered her another position, but it won't be available until after the new year. And this complicates her situation even more. I wished her luck and told her she was a strong candidate. She acted as though she really didn't want the job.

As I write this, I'm inclined to believe her whole motive with me is to:

1) get a boost of self confidence. Each and everytime, I would show encouragment, she claimed I was jinxing her.

2) possibly secure me as a possible source of attention until she is settled in her new job. At which time, she'll disappear.

To me this smells more like HPD than BPD if anything. Or am I wrong?

[

b]she obviously did something to you thru her hard-wired manipulation to reel you in, twist your emotions and make you confused about how you actually feel for her and how you should proceed next. you obviously care about her or you wouldn't be here, right... [/b]

There is definitely confusion because I did ask her to lunch today. I basically got the no. I'm okay with that, but then she tells me of a new restuarant in the area and names off all the fellows from the office she's gone there with. As if I wanted to hear about it.
Ultimately, I'm learning the more I interact with her, the less defensive I am and my emotions become exposed like tearing a scab off a cut.

deep inside me i still cared so much but i just couldn't show it anymore. it was like i was shell shocked or emotionally damaged and drained from her.

My experience is minor when compared to you, but nonetheless,
it is very exhausting to have to deal with her. It's like when she comes around I have to put up my shield like William Wallace in Braveheart. In fact, a buddy told me to take her to lunch today and I was very hesistant to ask her because I felt I wouldn't able to relax around her. You know being very careful what I say. Trying to analyze everything. It's too much for any person. I'm finding I'm willfully telling her what she wants to hear. Not because I'm trying to earn favor but it's the easiest way to get along with her.

I think BPD is being painted up to much as them having game's they actully arent cruel and dont manipulate to the extent and for...um, bad reasons like the other cluster B's.

One theory is BPD is a different form of a dissasociative disorder.

This is where alot of my confusion about her lies. How the two PD's mesh with each other. From reading the posts, to me the BPD just wants to be heard or understood. Although they inflict harm, it doesn't appear as though they would have wished it like an HPD would have. She has so many of the HPD characteristics, but resembles a BPD as well. By her manipulation pattern she strikes me as HPD, but the situations where she manipulates (ie. push/pull) suggests BPD.

Right now I'm typed out. So, I'll take a break and comment some more on the other posts. Talk to you all soon!

to tell you the truth, from the very beginning of this post i have always felt, i mean just from what you have told us here, that she is more hpd than bpd, maybe not bpd at all...but i answered you here because your post was here.

i don't know...

There is definitely confusion because I did ask her to lunch today. I basically got the no. I'm okay with that, but then she tells me of a new restuarant in the area and names off all the fellows from the office she's gone there with. As if I wanted to hear about it.

describes how i felt around the girl i cared about with hpd....constant contradictions...from hour to hour, every day from a different angle. very confusing!!!

Ultimately, I'm learning the more I interact with her, the less defensive I am and my emotions become exposed like tearing a scab off a cut.

again, the same experience i felt. once they (i'm talking from an hpd perspective) get under your skin this is how they make you feel. atypical...painful, but true.

My experience is minor when compared to you, but nonetheless,
it is very exhausting to have to deal with her.

i wouldn't necessarily say that. we shouldn't compare who has been hurt more than who. you are hurt by the manipulation. hurt is hurt...

It's like when she comes around I have to put up my shield like William Wallace in Braveheart. In fact, a buddy told me to take her to lunch today and I was very hesistant to ask her because I felt I wouldn't able to relax around her. You know being very careful what I say. Trying to analyze everything. It's too much for any person. I'm finding I'm willfully telling her what she wants to hear.

wow, you are describing it to a tee. that's what happens after a while. at first you feel so connected and then gradually you are scared to offend her. it is absolutely exhausting and draining. i feel for you...

Thanks for the response, Soulsearch..

I too feel she is more HPD than anything else. I mean from day one she was seeking attention like an HPD would. Feeding off men for her fix. Not to mention how shallow she is. It's very difficult to carry a deep conversation with her. I remember on many occassions her claiming to have this guy liking her. That guy liking her. And another guy checking her out. At the time, I had called her arrogant and too full of her self. She didn't like that. Recently she showed some humbleness. I said, I liked her that way because she seemed more herself. Since then, I haven't heard a peep from her about how wonderful she is. In fact I brought it up how attractive she is to alot of men, and she sheepishly said she doesn't attract many men at all.

With that said though she lacked the high dramatics common with HPD's. I've never seen her get loud and obnoxious. She would never show any emotion outside the norm with the exception of anger. Maybe it's because she saves it for her bf?

But then BPD sticks it's head up because I've seen scarring on her, which could easily be self inflicted. She had two or three small scabs lined up her arm with one on the back of her hand. She claims they are mosquito bites but there aren't many mosquitos flying around this year. Also, the one on the back of her hand looked as if she scraped it using her finger nail. Not to mention the push/pulling she's done since I've known her.

In a sense, I hope she's more BPD than HPD because BPD's seem to be more "real".

I've been pondering this thing about her bf. If there is one at all. The reason I say this is on one occasion, I met a fellow she claimed was her bf but there wasn't that connection you would expect/sense from a couple. When I spoke to him everything sounded rehearsed. Like she told him what to say. When I went bellow the surface with him in conversation, she decided it was time to go home for the evening. I know she wanted to get a rise out of me because she pretended she was going to attend the event alone. However, I got the heads up that he was going to be there. Of course, it didn't bother me too much that he was there at all because I knew what she was doing.

Also, she never really refers to him by name or go into great detail about them. I'll ask her what they did for the weekend and her response would be, we watched movies. Aside from her recent fight with him, I never hear about the emotional side of her relationship.

My guess too, is it's easy to claim to have a bf because it's an out. A way for her to escape when she can't handle someone getting too close. I mean... I questioned her whether or not she could be in a long term relationship because she appears to get bored with men. I presented this in a light hearted manner and she went ballistic in an e-mail about her last relationship being over a decade. And with her dealings in the office, it would seem she couldn't maintain a long term relationship. Her reaction suggests that I got little close to the real her.

In addition, she would claim various things about him. Such as he suffers from anxiety attacks. Honestly, I think she was really using her bf to expose things about herself. Sort of a test. To see how I would feel about the matter.

At this time, I feel as though she is ever so slowly opening up. Trying to indirectly expose herself. Tell me who she is. I've learned not to push her and if she says something of substance, I might casually address it without being judgmental. Go figure. Now that she's leaving it's all meaningless.

also, my first girlfriend (diagnosed bpd) was very apologetic and seemed to be racked with guilt over the way she treated me and to this day when i see her (once a year or so she treats me very well).

My friend seems to be lacking in this department. SHe doesn't showan empathetic nature. When I called her out on something about how it made me feel. She took on an ASPD type tone. The happy face came off and she was very mechanical (non-emotional) when she asked if she did such and such, would it make me happy. It was as though she became a totally different cold person. Evil in a sense.

hpd's on the other hand (at least the disingenuous type with more anti-social self serving leanings) ... at least the two i know are very controlled in their manipulation, their anger at being slighted seems to come more from a pride perspective rather than sadness or insecurity and they will pull out all the stops to get someone's attention and once they get it they become mean...to put it simply, just mean.

I think this is a fitting description of her. In fact yesterday, I did mention to her that she strikes me as someone who is a long term planner. Strategists so to speak. I put it in the context of her career, but there were some implications about her personality as well. I imagine, she'll think about what I say all weekend. And might react on Monday.

I remember telling her she will never get me. All the while, she was tearing away at my defenses. This seemed to encourage her even more to chase me. There was a brief moment where I cut off all contact because her manipulations eventually were getting to me.

We are now on a more level playing field, but I still feel she sees me as a challenge. Like I'm the chosen one in the whole office. I'd hear about her talking to such and such, but it never bothered me because she throws too much emotion my way. She never pulls her little attitude or game playing with the others. And because of this, I feel she sees me as the chosen one. I'm not suggesting I'm grateful for being her primary target, but it's more of a statement of fact.

I just remember something yesterday, which really striked me. She was nagging at me yesterday and I mentioned she is so perfect for me. She gave me this look of confusion. Like, "What did he mean by that or why'd you say that?". I explained a nagging woman is my ideal woman. It must have made an impact because she was even more into me for the rest of the day.

This girl is fire and hopefully everything will burn out, when or if she takes on the new job.

Take Care!






[/quote]

I too feel she is more HPD than anything else. I mean from day one she was seeking attention like an HPD would.

yeah, so do i. i mean i am not a psychologist and i have never met her but my inkling says hpd with some slight bpd tendencies??? the marks on her arm you mentioned...yes that is more bpd than hpd. but, she still seems more hpd...either/or...you're here. i hope you've recieved some good advice from the forum.

My friend seems to be lacking in this department. SHe doesn't showan empathetic nature. When I called her out on something about how it made me feel. She took on an ASPD type tone. The happy face came off and she was very mechanical (non-emotional) when she asked if she did such and such, would it make me happy. It was as though she became a totally different cold person. Evil in a sense.

exactly. whenever she is questioned even ever so slightly on her behaviour she shows a side so different it is very unexpected. a mean side...in total contradiction to the face she tries to portray.

With that said though she lacked the high dramatics common with HPD's. I've never seen her get loud and obnoxious.

from my experience bpd's tend to get more loud. i have known three hpd's in my life, plus my mother who is a passive aggressive hpd and they never, ever...that i have heard, raise their voice or get loud at all. maybe some hpd's do...but not the ones i know. their anger is more seething, sarcastic...bpd's however, if provoked or hurt can fly off the handle in a second. plus, when i have heard hpd's try to yell it sounds like they can't yell...like it's suppressed or something. it comes out sounding like a child trying to yell.

Also, she never really refers to him by name or go into great detail about them. I'll ask her what they did for the weekend and her response would be, we watched movies. Aside from her recent fight with him, I never hear about the emotional side of her relationship.

sounds like it is her boyfriend...one that has been around for a while that she is bored with...thus the bland reaction around him. he is probably a really quiet guy unable to show emotions. he is probably hurt but knows the best way not to get on her nerves is to act a certain way as to not displease her.

I just remember something yesterday, which really striked me. She was nagging at me yesterday and I mentioned she is so perfect for me. She gave me this look of confusion. Like, "What did he mean by that or why'd you say that?".

yes, when you say anything meaningful they appear confused as if they can't believe you really do have feelings for them or about anything for that matter.

keep everything just as shallow and you'll be fine.