BPD and "evil"

This thread will bring in a discussion about the reasons behind the more malicious and "cunningly agressive" behaviors present in BPD.

We all know many BPDs can be manipulative, sadistic and have a strong need to hurt others - specially in the same way they feel hurt, be that for a real reason or not.

Usually, BPDs won't act much with ethics. They create trouble, quarrels and inflict damage upon others when they feel like it. They sometimes bother to justify it somehow, but not always.

Sometimes it can be a "heat of the moment" type of aggression, but often, BPDs will actually carefully plan and execute plots with the sheer intention of causing someone pain and harm.
A lot of BPDs seem to have an innate need to "share the pain", and make people miserable specifically about the same things/the same way they are.

People regard BPD as "evil" people, because not only they are aggressive and hostile, they do so in a very intelligent way. Manipulation, deflection, playing the victim, gaslighting - etc. BPDs might sometimes feel like they're the victims in the first place (if only by their own faulty brains causing emotional pain), but a lot of times they'll do it for sheer disregard of others and also sadistic pleasure.

Why do you think that happens, from the perspective of a person with BPD?

I myself suffer from PTSD and anxiety - which is more physical than mental. I don't worry or anything like that, but feel the anxiety's physical effects often. And also, I feel a lot of ANGER.

I'm literally very angry a great portion of my day, every day. I learned to control it and I don't express it. And although I may feel it for someone, I rarely ever lash out at people.

A lot of people with anxiety, PTSD, depression and bipolar depression also feel extreme emotional malaise and anger constantly. But, they don't act malignant. They might lash out and be aggressive, but that is usually very brief and not planned out, or even well structured. And is usually followed by regret. It seems like these conditions suffer internally and externally just as much as BPD people do (actually, these ones also seem to take a physical toll much greater than BPD seems to have).

If anxious, depressed and bipolar people feel just as bad as BPDs (or worse), and can have impulsivity issues as well, then how come these people aren't as aggressive as BPDs? And despite having terrible ruminations, I don't see people in the depressive and anxious spectrums being so vindictive. BPDs on the other hand, seem to be on a quest to project their personal, emotional and material pain and failures, and they have a strong need for revenge.

Also, BPDs seem to start fights due to a strong NEED to. They keep going in circles until they literally "wear off" and feel better again. It's like drama and linking emotional pain triggers pleasant things or maybe relief for a BPD.

Perhaps, BPD's aggression and malignancy is not a response to how bad you feel or your life circumstances, but part of the illness itself. Is the BPD believing he does X because of Y, or is he finding reasons to justify it or understand it, and in the end, he is just hard wired to do X regardless of the circumstances?

If bipolar II people, for example, which has very similar symptoms with BPD, can regard people's emotions and live ethically, why BPDs can not? You can see bipolar II people being a drag and awfully critic or pessimistic, but you rarely will see them bent on making someone's life's hell.

I know a lot of stigma covers BPD, but honestly, it's understandable. There's more to BPD than sheer emotional disregulation, despite what doctors try to sell nowadays (even though BPD doesn't many effective treatments, as many of you suffering from the worst symptoms know already and are terribly frustrated with the failured treatments, which makes psychotherapists/psychiatrists quite unethical or "well meaning fools".), so we should really not "sweep under the rug". I don't think BPD is going to stop happening any time soon and bringing more things to light is essential.

Trust me, sufferers discussing the illness can be more beneficial than paid doctors to investigate with a small group of people in a controlled, "not real life" setting.

Of course, this is not a post directed TO YOU. I don't know YOU and I'm not describing YOU specifically. Grab what's useful to discuss and let's be rational about it, no need to get defensive. Being BPD sucks, I know. A lot of things suck.

If the forum isn't appropriate for me to poke at BPDs inner workings, pointing me to one here that is would be great.

Mean no disrespect to anyone, I know BPD is under your control as much as my will to eat my weight in candy every day.

I think the problem is that BPD people can very well play empathic and caring, and people get hooked on that. When you see a sociopath in action, you see that relatively soon. However, with BPD you don't see it very soon. It can be a very painful realisation, but faking empathy is borderline's means to get into the position of power. But also don't make some devils out of them, it is just unhealthy to think in this way, you get paranoid, it is not necessary.

One way or another, if you don't like BPD people, don't get close to them. Form strong relationships with "your people", and each time you spot that borderline pattern of thinking "the victim who cared so much, but was mistreated" just think again, and again, and again, if you see the borderline traits, don't trust, stay away. This is a lesson for you, so that next time you know how to not get caught.

HopelessRomantic wrote:I think the problem is that BPD people can very well play empathic and caring, and people get hooked on that. When you see a sociopath in action, you see that relatively soon. However, with BPD you don't see it very soon. It can be a very painful realisation, but faking empathy is borderline's means to get into the position of power. But also don't make some devils out of them, it is just unhealthy to think in this way, you get paranoid, it is not necessary.

One way or another, if you don't like BPD people, don't get close to them. Form strong relationships with "your people", and each time you spot that borderline pattern of thinking "the victim who cared so much, but was mistreated" just think again, and again, and again, if you see the borderline traits, don't trust, stay away. This is a lesson for you, so that next time you know how to not get caught.

"It can be a very painful realisation, but faking empathy is borderline's means to get into the position of power.".

Excellent observation, BPDs are looking to get power and control.

And actually, I tend to see BPDs specifically for the often exagerated "playing the empath/affectionate person" to build a bond or trust AND "I'm a victim who cared so much, but was neglected and abandoned for no good reason". When people act like this, BPD or not, I tend to run, because I know it's manipulation and very sick emotions on the way.

I do avoid people with BPD traits, but I don't know if I'm avoiding BPD people.

The purpose of the post was discussing less the emotional/subjective aspect of BPD issues, and more the specifically group of bad behaviors that get BPD people labeled as evil in the first place.

I think dissecting this kind of stuff is beneficial to everyone. Without rationalization of mental illness , mentally ill people would still be treated as possessed beings or just azzholes.

I certainly do not see pwbpd as 'evil' (unless their actions indicate otherwise). But I do feel sorry for them, if they themselves ruin their relationships with others. And I hate gas-lighting. Smear campaigns are easy to see through: just making another look bad while only hiding their own egregious behavior....that is pitiful...

just ignore them and feel sorry for them, because they don't know any better.

Meh.

Find a better way to amuse yourself, TN. Trying to get a rise out of PwBPD is beneath you.

I'm the queen of overreaction and defending PwBPD and reading this just made me smirk. The oversimplification. The use of the word "evil". You're just begging to piss people off.

I'm nothing like what you describe, even if you say it's not directed AT ME. I'm needy and have issues but I'm passive and overly forgiving. I'm neither cunning nor sadistic, to any degree. But defending myself would play into your intent to upset me.

You mean plenty of disrespect or you wouldn't have used such strong language. If you would like me to point you where it's appropriate to have this discussion, I would point you towards your own a$$, because this whole post is full of $hit.

Interesting post twistednerve, holding up the mirror of the other's perception of the person in question wrt to the PD. It's not pleasant. At the same time, not all of it can apply to each person at any point in time but perhaps over time in some ways.

"Evil" ...strong term. But one that is thrown around a great deal on the non support forums.

The fact that somebody doesn't have affective empathy doesn't make that person evil per se. It is what that person does that makes them evil. I actually don't like the word "evil', because it makes the world seem antagonistic, "good" v "evil" type of logic. Actually, borderlines, when feel threatened, initiate and then spread this type of thinking to those who are clueless or feel threatened too. When they see that it works, they just keep on going, then they create chaos and make things much worse than they were in the past. But maybe that was their intention - to create chaos, to take revenge, because they didn't get what they wanted. As long as you don't let them create that chaos and stop it when you feel they're having bad intentions, then you'll be safe and others will be safe too.

Twisted is lonely and trying to make friends. He's looking for some attention and trying to reach out to people, albeit, in a rather clumsy and immature way.

It's okay Twisted. I'll be your friend. You can PM me if you like

AmorousDestruction wrote:Meh.

Find a better way to amuse yourself, TN. Trying to get a rise out of PwBPD is beneath you.

I'm the queen of overreaction and defending PwBPD and reading this just made me smirk. The oversimplification. The use of the word "evil". You're just begging to piss people off.

I'm nothing like what you describe, even if you say it's not directed AT ME. I'm needy and have issues but I'm passive and overly forgiving. I'm neither cunning nor sadistic, to any degree. But defending myself would play into your intent to upset me.

You mean plenty of disrespect or you wouldn't have used such strong language. If you would like me to point you where it's appropriate to have this discussion, I would point you towards your own a$$, because this whole post is full of $hit.

Perhaps I'm just trying to understand something that keeps coming back to my mind every now and then, but it just has no answer.

-- Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:38 am --

InSpiritus wrote:Interesting post twistednerve, holding up the mirror of the other's perception of the person in question wrt to the PD. It's not pleasant. At the same time, not all of it can apply to each person at any point in time but perhaps over time in some ways.

"Evil" ...strong term. But one that is thrown around a great deal on the non support forums.

Not pleasant at all, I'd imagine. People with BPD usually dislike talking about it, I actually made a post asking about that last month I think. That's why I usually put a bunch of disclaimers on the threads I make here.

That's why I used it. "BPD evil" is a common term and refers to certain behaviors I've seen a lot of people discuss over other forums or articles.
It differs from the mere impulsivity and aggressive behaviors, although these are also in the package on some individuals.

"Malignancy" is actually seen as a trait of mania, too. Some bipolars become the devil after a while manic, knowing it and enjoying it, so who knows if it's a symptom or something else that takes a ride in the chaos that is a person's behavior and "personality" or God-knows-what.

Nobody seems willing to give insight into this, so meh.