I can't trust anyone

I feel like everyone who is trying to "help me" or sits there and listesnto my oriels just wants to feel better about their own lives. I feel like people are just trying to control me or use me.

Are you referring to friends, family members? Or medical professionals, therapists? All of the above?
When you say that you feel people are using you, do you think it is to make themselves feel better about themselves with the guise of helping you? How do you think this is making them gain control?
I ask you these things because I am interested in what you are saying and would like to know more.... I have some of these feelings about so called "positive" people in my life too...

I think I sort of know what you are saying. Not sure if you are talking about people in your life (friends, family) or health professionals, but there are plenty of instances where I doubt the sincerity of the person who is there to help me. Wonder if they could really care less. Wonder about what their motivation is at different times. Think that it is just for their benefit.

This is probably a bit off topic, but my psychiatrist once told me something that I found interesting, that you could definitely see in different people. Both can come across as concern and empathy, but come from really different places. He said there are two types of people.

One will watch you stab a pen into your leg. They'll want you to remove the pen because they can imagine what that feels like, they can imagine or relate to the pain you are in, they hate seeing you in that sort of pain, don't want you to experience it anymore and so want to help you remove the pen.

The second type will watch you stab a pen into your leg. They'll want you to remove the pen because it makes them feel uncomfortable to have to see it, it causes them to feel worried and they don't like having to worry about other people, you are not following their rules by having that pen there and being in pain. So they will help you to remove the pen.

I kind of see the first type of person as the genuine empathy. They want to help you because they don't like seeing you in pain. The second type is more about helping you for their own reasons, for reasons of control, for what is in it for them. When I look back, there are certainly people who I'd thought were helping, who really fell into the second category. Those are the people I've learnt to rely less on for support.

But depends on who you are talking about. If it's health professionals, I tend to think that people get into those areas of work because they like helping people. Sure it's a career, but there somewhere within them, they want to help people for genuine reasons.

If the second type is also feeling uncomfortable, then there is a part of them that cares and sympathizes in some way. Some people are great at picking up the slack and helping out and making it look easy, others struggle more with it, so it appears they are uncomfortable and want to get the thing over with for their own ends.

IMHO, the two category types is a form of splitting hairs, they are the same thing. We are very subjective and a lot of our views can be confused for selfishness because of this. No one likes to have to clean up problems, everyone enjoys a job well done after the fact. That's just how it works. If they are in there helping, I would hazard a guess they are very far removed from selfish. Maybe our expectations of others are too high, anything at all they care to do is very welcome, and maybe being bothered how or where that help came from is stepping into their territory. If we are benefiting, maybe our task is just to say thank you, if we are really in need, and leave the rest for them to deal with, that's their job not ours. The less expectations we have of others, the happier we will be. Those expectations are better reserved for ourselves - how selfish am I being? We may have more satisfaction with that question instead.

Sometimes life causes us to hit such lows we literally have to beg for help, and it may be tempting to question that help, we must however be careful of being disdainful of the hand that feeds us. Giving any support at all takes effort and time and maybe it is not the fairest thing to slight it in any way. Unless it is paid for support, in which case we should definitely be getting the help we signed into, and we are more free to ask questions.

I see it all as a problem of expectations, if your mind is open, and you have none, you are more likely to see things of people you may not otherwise have, each and every person is a mix of dirtbag and superstar, always better to look at the kinder side and not doubt or question it. Some things, now and then, it is nice to take at face value. Most people are pretty simple creatures looking for the same things we are. Don't be too hard on them. There is happiness to be found in that for both parties.

Stream wrote:IMHO, the two category types is a form of splitting hairs, they are the same thing. We are very subjective and a lot of our views can be confused for selfishness because of this. No one likes to have to clean up problems, everyone enjoys a job well done after the fact. That's just how it works. If they are in there helping, I would hazard a guess they are very far removed from selfish.

I guess I meant that you have to have different expectations for different people, which sounds like what you were saying too really. When telling me that story, the doctor didn't mean it as though one type was good and the other bad. More that this is just the way people are. Some are capable of genuine empathy, in that their desire to help is based on being able to understand your pain. The other is based more in what is in it for them. Your pain being outside of their "rules". But that it is not a character flaw, more just the way they are and that you have to just accept them for that and not expect them to be any different.

I thought the idea made sense and was useful because with BPD you can sometimes find yourself reaching out to the wrong people. Seeking empathy and understanding from someone who is not really capable of it (not because they are "bad" but it's just the way they think) can be a huge source of disappointment. Same with always giving to a relationship where the person is just too focused on themselves to give anything back. It's not always because they are bad, that's just the way they are. But with some more awareness of it, you can choose then to place on limit on what you are willing to give.

But as you said paid health professionals is another story. You need them to really care about helping you and not just helping themselves.

Great point. Catering your style of interaction to the individual you are dealing with is important, I completely agree it is not one size fits all, and different approaches may be needed. Now I see what you meant.

The two points about empathy are well taken and you're right it comes from different places. I think I was referring to a more diabolical kind, where people offer to help you or listen to you because it makes them feel superior or take comfort that their lives aren't that bad. Instea of helping you find a solution they rather aerial you wallow in pain helplessness and dependency. I've had so many if these people tell me they're trying to help me in some way but my insides are screaming get out they're trying to control you by creating dependency. It's a matter of tea him skills and lending support to someone.

For example I imagine someone who's over weight and would whine and hate themselves forthwit body issues. Their skinny friend might listen to them and they might even suggest working out with you but instead they make mean comments subtle comments about your weight and how no man will ever want you and then eat a desert and yours and tell you that they're trying to help you by helping you eat. Lol and insult you at the same time. This didn't happen but it's a good analogy.

I stopped talking to a friend lately when I realised he was a co dependent. He enjoyed the fact I was depressed and unhappy. I weighed the benefits. Yes he'll take me out for dinner to cheer me up and help me grocery ahopping and yes he'll listen but did he ever really help? Was that a demeaning comment he just made about my situation?

So I split him black ad stopped talking to him.

It's like you read my mind. I wish I had someone I could talk to about this, because my mother suffers from the same issue and nobody really knows what to think about anyone.

I wish I could be of more help to you and people who feel like this, but if I don't know who to trust, how am I supposed to say anything of use? It's the worst feeling in the world. I feel like everyone is a potential enemy.

When it comes to trust, it may help to remember others take a risk to trust me as well, they definitely have to overlook aspects of me that are not pretty. In order for any kind of relationship to work, both parties have to be doing the same.

It may look like a picnic the nons seem to have lots of functional relationships effortlessly, but it's not effortless at all, they accept flaws in people, and they have to deal with that bad taste in the mouth sometimes too, hopefully, the rewards of good relations make up for all that.

I don't think I've experienced people who actually like or want to see me be unhappy because it makes them feel superior or gives them a kick. But then, I rarely share my true feelings with anyone besides a few. And when I do share it with those few, it is usually at the point of extremes. I'm sure it's possible though.

The only thing I've had with wondering what people are getting out of helping you is when the person doesn't seem capable of really supporting you. There are times, especially with BPD when getting better is such a long term thing, where all you want from another person is just for them to listen to what you are sharing and say they understand. If something is particularly bad, maybe to offer some sympathy too.

But all people do is try to offer advice, to problem solve it. Which I know is human nature and sometimes comes from a good place. But then when their advice doesn't "fix" the situation or inevitably you are still unhappy and struggling months later they get frustrated/pissed off. You aren't in the neat little box they want you to be in. Plus with some people I know, all this talk of you being sad is taking the attention away from them. They just want you to be well so that you can be saying all the right things and showing sufficient interest in their life.