Intimacy and BPD-symptoms

My mind isn't at it's clearest right now but I would like to start a discussion concerning the variability of BPD-"symptoms" and their intensity depending on the degree of intimacy/distance. If I try to describe my own dynamics concerning the issue, I would say that I fit all the 9 DSM-criteria for borderline personality disorder - But: some, if not most, of these symptoms present themselves only in the context of intimate relationships. When I'm by myself, there is always the sense of emptiness, identity confusion and mood problems - also impulsive behavior as a form of escape from these feelings. But I'm not afraid of the abandonment in the case of my ordinary friends, for example, because they're still distant enough for me not to attach myself to them so intensely as to be afraid of them abandoning me. But I still tend to be pretty sensitive to their criticism if I happen to take it "the wrong way", so maybe that counts as a kind of "fear of rejection". Intense anger and rage with them is rare, although not unseen. Dissociative episodes happen only in times of extreme stress, and doesn't happen as a consequence of my interaction with my friends, but in relationships I've experienced them. So, as an escape from my empty etc. feelings I end up in relationships, and that's when all these classic "borderline"-behaviors start to show, because I'm "too close". And then again it could be assumed that I don't tend to be that close to people for that very reason - because they would stir up my intense reactions. So there must always be some sort of detachment from people in general. But the romantic relationship, by the definition, is an "attachment", and leads me to fit all the 9 criteria of BPD. Without an intimate relationship I guess I would fit at least 4 criteria, and more depending on the situation. That's the problem: these kind of things aren't that static in nature that they could be measured as something absolutely true every time. But maybe it's the tendencies. So, I guess my main question is: Can I consider my thoughts, feelings and behavior in intimate relationships (combined with my general sense of self) as a clear indicator of BPD when they stir up those tendencies in me that make me see my own dynamics as clearly "BPD" and fit the criteria, considering that at the same time I don't, for example rage to the complete strangers or fear abandonment from my therapist, or threaten a cashier with suicide? Sorry if I'm being unclear..

Maybe the question could be: Would you get diagnosed with BPD even if the presence of BPD-traits was "contextual" in this way?

littlearcher wrote:

Lemrty wrote:So, I guess my main question is: Can I consider my thoughts, feelings and behavior in intimate relationships (combined with my general sense of self) as a clear indicator of BPD when they stir up those tendencies in me that make me see my own dynamics as clearly "BPD" and fit the criteria, considering that at the same time I don't, for example rage to the complete strangers or fear abandonment from my therapist, or threaten a cashier with suicide? Sorry if I'm being unclear..

Maybe the question could be: Would you get diagnosed with BPD even if the presence of BPD-traits was "contextual" in this way?

i'm not a professional but, i would think that yes, you would still be considered bpd as to NOT have a diagnostic criteria, you have to not exhibit it for 2 years or more. so, if you have 4 criteria and sometimes others depending on the circumstances, i think that would still count.

i think bpd traits exists on a spectrum and many of us here don't exhibit the examples that you give with strangers, the therapist or the cashier, while some of us might.

that's just from my understanding. i received my diagnosis based on things from within the past two years rather than things that i struggle with currently, and similar to you, the criteria i have challenges with are more attachment-based and those come out in romantic relationships.

i don't have issues with identity or anything else.

Thanks for the answer! I've exhibited these symptoms for 10 years (meaning that the basic problematic feelings toward life have remained the same and that whenever I've been in a relationship during this time, I've exhibited the same 'symptoms') and finally making an effort to sort this thing out.

The examples about strangers etc. were semi-humoristic exaggerations to get the point across. I'm aware that the intensity of BPD traits tend to vary.

littlearcher wrote:if you notice that you have more challenges in romantic relationships, as i notice about myself, maybe working on attachment would be helpful for you? is that something you might be open to speaking to your therapist about if you have one?

Yes, I in fact have already spoken openly about my attachment style and romantic relationships to the therapist.

But the thing is: In a way the relationships aren't the main problem, but my general sense of emptiness, lack of identity and so on. I'm sure there are some attachment issues (since childhood) at the core of these empty feelings, but the way I 'drift' into relationships serves more as a 'painkiller' for that general emptiness. Of course this isn't a healthy way to form bonds to begin with. And when I'm in a relationship, these strong emotional reactions and insecurities crystallize - but in a way I'm 'grateful' for this fact because it has led me to understand that there is something disordered in my personality in general, a core problem from which all of these problems with myself and others may stem from. So, the problem is 'me', and as long as I have this problem, I have also attachment issues. But more noticeably issues with myself, which lead to issues with others. It's the same suffering, whether it's about myself and life in general or my relationships.

littlearcher wrote:hugs to you <3

that makes a lot of sense.

i haven't had experience with the feeling of emptiness but, i can only imagine how difficult it must be and how it must impact so many aspects of your life.

Thanks for your concern Emptiness is something difficult to grasp, because it's, well, emptiness. I'd say it's somehow connected to a sense of "lacking something essential". I've spoken about emptiness for these 10 years but in a way I haven't been able to figure out if 'emptiness' is just the nature of the whole existence - and my recently acquired knowledge about BPD, and about "chronic feelings of emptiness" as one of the symptoms, is also a kind of relief. There is hope for solution when you reach the understanding that some negative aspect of your life is such as it is due to a 'problem', and not due to the 'absolute essence' of life.

Hi

Rage or anger is the interesting symptom. When its not expressed it turns into depression (correct me if I'm wrong Archer ) It usually begins to come up when the depression lifts via therapy and hard work - its very eye opening when you begin to see the real reasons you are/were angry. Sometimes its not quite what you thought.

Interpersonal relatioanships are usually where symptoms first appear, I would say you are right. LA gave you a lot of sound advice.

Take Care

whenlmeetsm wrote:Hi

Rage or anger is the interesting symptom. When its not expressed it turns into depression (correct me if I'm wrong Archer ) It usually begins to come up when the depression lifts via therapy and hard work - its very eye opening when you begin to see the real reasons you are/were angry. Sometimes its not quite what you thought.

Interpersonal relatioanships are usually where symptoms first appear, I would say you are right. LA gave you a lot of sound advice.

Take Care

Thanks. I've never really believed that the 'reasons' to get angry in relationships have really been the main cause of my anger. The just act as 'triggers'. I have a hunch about the real 'biographical' reasons behind. And you are right, there is this depressive feeling I've also associated with the fact that there has been too many situations during my life in which I have repressed the expression of my natural reactions, was it rage or sorrow. And if I sometimes let myself cry honestly, I've noticed that I've opened up for myself and usually also anger follows from my sorrow.

Hi
I know this isn't about your original question, I just wanted to touch on the emptiness feeling. I was just diagnosed with bpd and I'm new to all of this information and insights about myself. However I have struggled with just about every symptom since I was about 6 I think. The lack of "fitting in" with everyone in my life and feelings of watching from outside and not understanding what I was "missing" so that I could "fill" the hole in my life. I also have huge abandonment issues to the extreme that I worry and stress about what I did wrong or how I may have possibly irritated someone or been to clingy if they don't answer the phone or return a text or if i can't get anyone to answer or if no one calls or stops by.... The emptiness or void in my life is huge almost all the time, it's strange to try to put into words now that I'm trying to lol i had so many things to say as i read your post but now I'm struggling to get it out it's like a strange feeling of lost sorta like if you were to try to watch a movie from 30-40 feet away with the volume very low only to realize later that it is in a language you don't understand, you can guess parts of it by watching the people and how they react and respond to each other but you still have no clue what the movie is about.
I don't know if that helps or not, I'm way loopy right now due to lack of sleep... So I apologize for rambling out of context.

wildhare wrote:Hi
I know this isn't about your original question, I just wanted to touch on the emptiness feeling. I was just diagnosed with bpd and I'm new to all of this information and insights about myself. However I have struggled with just about every symptom since I was about 6 I think. The lack of "fitting in" with everyone in my life and feelings of watching from outside and not understanding what I was "missing" so that I could "fill" the hole in my life. I also have huge abandonment issues to the extreme that I worry and stress about what I did wrong or how I may have possibly irritated someone or been to clingy if they don't answer the phone or return a text or if i can't get anyone to answer or if no one calls or stops by.... The emptiness or void in my life is huge almost all the time, it's strange to try to put into words now that I'm trying to lol i had so many things to say as i read your post but now I'm struggling to get it out it's like a strange feeling of lost sorta like if you were to try to watch a movie from 30-40 feet away with the volume very low only to realize later that it is in a language you don't understand, you can guess parts of it by watching the people and how they react and respond to each other but you still have no clue what the movie is about.
I don't know if that helps or not, I'm way loopy right now due to lack of sleep... So I apologize for rambling out of context.

That's okay. I'd say I understand where you're coming from. I indeed have also felt occasionally that this world is 'nothing' since early childhood. And there has always been this barrier between me and others. Like there was no real connection, and that's why we're so desperate to cling on to some 'outside sources' for our existence in form of relationships? Outside sources we still don't seem to genuinely understand despite our attempts to fill the basic void with them. I think it has something to do with the inborn vulnerability and the internalizations about not having a 'right' to exist and express as much as others... Or something like that.