Is this trait BPD or no?

There's a prevailing theme I keep running into that I'm having trouble with. From what I've learned, pwBPD justify their emotions and over-reactions and blame others.

In the moment I do this. However, once the crisis has passed, all that strong emotion goes inward. I hate myself. I'm worthless. I'm wrong. I'm bad. I blame myself for everything and will literally cry and cry about how horrible I am. I also cry because I want the other person to come to me, to be the first to apologize, so that I feel secure that they aren't going to leave me after all the drama I caused. There's a manipulativeness to it.

I also don't lack self-awareness. What I lack is impulse control, the ability to regulate how I act during times of high emotion.

I also do see in shades of gray, when I'm NOT in that same moment of high emotion. Otherwise things are just bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

But yes: I'm not sure if being self-blaming more so than continuing to justify yourself and criticize others is consistant with a pwBPD. Is that possible?

I've learned that there's a wide variety in how BPD is experienced by pwBPD. What I can say is that for me impulsivity in my actions is a very prevalent theme. I have often tried to then blame others for provoking this but sooner or later I internalize things and wallow in self hatred. I'm a gold medalist in the field of self hatred and the ensuing depression caused by that.

For me, it was the disappointment in how often my emotions over powered my better judgement. So I took to withdrawing and hiding (and hating myself for that).

Self hatred and depression can protect us (or we might think others, making it a more noble endeavor). It becomes like your blanket as a kid. Where, when you were under that blanket, nothing could hurt you. You get safe and comfy. But with time it grows so heavy that it no longer protects us but rather suffocates us.

That's what I think, anyways. Sorry, got to preaching and don't know I answered your question.

Carmilla wrote:There's a prevailing theme I keep running into that I'm having trouble with. From what I've learned, pwBPD justify their emotions and over-reactions and blame others.

In the moment I do this. However, once the crisis has passed, all that strong emotion goes inward. I hate myself. I'm worthless. I'm wrong. I'm bad. I blame myself for everything and will literally cry and cry about how horrible I am. I also cry because I want the other person to come to me, to be the first to apologize, so that I feel secure that they aren't going to leave me after all the drama I caused. There's a manipulativeness to it.

I also don't lack self-awareness. What I lack is impulse control, the ability to regulate how I act during times of high emotion.

I also do see in shades of gray, when I'm NOT in that same moment of high emotion. Otherwise things are just bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

But yes: I'm not sure if being self-blaming more so than continuing to justify yourself and criticize others is consistant with a pwBPD. Is that possible?

Very good question and yes it can be.

Predominantly, people associate BPD as manifesting outward but a smaller percentage of those affiliated go inward and their pain often goes unnoticed because, being inward, nobody ever see's it so nobody realizes anything is wrong. Those types often carry even more shame than someone who goes outward, so if they do enter therapy, they may have a very, very difficult time communicating to the therapist where their problem areas are - because everything about themselves seems so shameful and bad (to themselves).

Those inward types are sometimes referred to as silent borderlines or I've even seen "borderline waif" used to describe the type. My ex fit this version and like you, she carried so many negative thoughts and beliefs about herself. "What if I really am a bad person?" is a question (or thought) she'd randomly vocalize from time to time when she felt really comfortable with me. It's hard hearing that kind of thing from someone who possesses a lot of great qualities and whom you know is very good and lovable.

If you're like that, rather than blame others, you blame yourself; rather than maybe justify an outburst based off of what someone else did to trigger it, you might justify the trigger and have an internal outburst validating horrible and negative thoughts about yourself (ie., I deserve to feel like this because...).

I'm not sure how the thinking applies really. You say you're very shades of gray normally, but to be inward like that means you're caring and preserving very extreme all-or-nothing feelings about yourself. Like "I can't do anything right", as an example. Are you saying that you only apply all-or-nothing thinking to yourself?

Empathy201 wrote:Predominantly, people associate BPD as manifesting outward but a smaller percentage of those affiliated go inward and their pain often goes unnoticed because, being inward, nobody ever see's it so nobody realizes anything is wrong. Those types often carry even more shame than someone who goes outward, so if they do enter therapy, they have a very, very difficult time communicating to the therapist where their problem areas are - because everything about themselves seems so shameful (to themselves).

Those types are sometimes referred to as silent borderlines or I've even seen "borderline waif" used to describe the type. My ex fit this version and like you, she carried so many negative thoughts and beliefs about herself. "What if I really am a bad person?" is a question (or thought) she'd randomly vocalize from time to time when she felt really comfortable with me. It's hard hearing that kind of thing from someone who possesses a lot of great qualities and whom you know is very good and lovable.

If you're like that, everything is the same for you as it would be for someone who is outward (behaviorally), but rather than blame others, you blame yourself; rather than maybe justify an outburst based off of what someone else did to trigger it, you might justify the trigger and have an internal outburst validating horrible and negative thoughts about yourself (ie., I deserve to feel like this because...).

I could have written this it describes me so well.

Carmilla: I know the feeling that you're talking about. I despise myself so much that sometimes I can't even look at myself without wanting to punch the mirror (or whatever it is). I feel utterly gross, worthless, useless and like I create problems no matter what I do. It's awful, and it makes asking someone for help so much harder, because we feel like we don't deserve to be helped. I'm sorry you know the feeling, I would never wish it on anyone.

Oh sure, quote me BEFORE I finish making some quick edits!


Btw Carmilla, I saw your other post about over-reacting and that shows clear dichotomous / all-or-nothing thinking (e.g., text isn't returned immediately so they must hate you). Could it be that maybe you're unaware of how frequently that kind of thinking happens? I realize you know it happens during a high stress/emotional moment, but if those moments occur a lot, then you're doing a lot of that thinking.

Iwoya wrote:I've learned that there's a wide variety in how BPD is experienced by pwBPD. What I can say is that for me impulsivity in my actions is a very prevalent theme. I have often tried to then blame others for provoking this but sooner or later I internalize things and wallow in self hatred. I'm a gold medalist in the field of self hatred and the ensuing depression caused by that.

Me too. I blame others in the moment, but then it's like everything comes crashing down on me and I have thoughts like, "okay, I'm clearly the crazy one." "I'm the bad one." "I don't deserve any of this."

Iwoya wrote:For me, it was the disappointment in how often my emotions over powered my better judgement. So I took to withdrawing and hiding (and hating myself for that).

I relate completely to this. It's so strange to normally have good judgement in so many circumstances, but then when it comes to yourself and stress and... anything else that can provoke it... (for me it's criticism or fear of someone leaving/withdrawing from me - the criticism ties into that though, because if they criticize me, it means they don't love me).

Iwoya wrote:Self hatred and depression can protect us (or we might think others, making it a more noble endeavor). It becomes like your blanket as a kid. Where, when you were under that blanket, nothing could hurt you. You get safe and comfy. But with time it grows so heavy that it no longer protects us but rather suffocates us.

I agree. I always liked to believe that the fact that I admitted to my faults made me a better person, but now I realize that I shoulder so much of it that it's beginning to crush me. But... if I take the blame, I don't have to wait for the other person to do it. And sometimes, even, they'll try to reassure me. It's both manipulation and desperation...

Iwoya wrote:That's what I think, anyways. Sorry, got to preaching and don't know I answered your question.

You actually helped a lot, thank you. It's nice to relate to people on here so completely. I don't feel as alone as before.

-- Fri May 31, 2013 12:00 pm --

Empathy201 wrote:
Very good question and yes it can be.

Predominantly, people associate BPD as manifesting outward but a smaller percentage of those affiliated go inward and their pain often goes unnoticed because, being inward, nobody ever see's it so nobody realizes anything is wrong. Those types often carry even more shame than someone who goes outward, so if they do enter therapy, they may have a very, very difficult time communicating to the therapist where their problem areas are - because everything about themselves seems so shameful and bad (to themselves).

I'm afraid of this, because I am so ashamed. I also know I'm going to go in there and immediately talk about how horrible of a person I am and how I'm the root cause of everything. I don't know how a therapist will react to something like that... and while I know it ISN'T true (...at least, I hope not...maybe it is, I don't know)... part of me is also seeking validation of my ridiculousness and the reassurance that it's a problem - maybe not altogether my fault.

But you're right. I have SO much shame. It follows me everywhere, even now, and I use anti-anxiety medications to quell it.

Iwoya wrote:Those inward types are sometimes referred to as silent borderlines or I've even seen "borderline waif" used to describe the type. My ex fit this version and like you, she carried so many negative thoughts and beliefs about herself. "What if I really am a bad person?" is a question (or thought) she'd randomly vocalize from time to time when she felt really comfortable with me. It's hard hearing that kind of thing from someone who possesses a lot of great qualities and whom you know is very good and lovable.

Oh god, I say this ALL THE TIME. In my latest fight with my SO, I ended up on bed in tears because I was convinced I was the worst person who ever walked the planet and just did not deserve to be here anymore. I engage in so many self-destructive behaviors, it's like I have no respect for myself... but how can I, when I don't really know who I am and what defines me...? It becomes difficult.

Iwoya wrote:If you're like that, rather than blame others, you blame yourself; rather than maybe justify an outburst based off of what someone else did to trigger it, you might justify the trigger and have an internal outburst validating horrible and negative thoughts about yourself (ie., I deserve to feel like this because...).

Yes. I blame myself. I have external outbursts too where I go off on the other person, but I quickly pull back from it. Part of me (at the back of my mind) still understands that it's not COMPLETELY my fault, but I have such a hard time reflecting this logical judgement in how I feel I just want to take more Xanax until I don't feel that heavy sadness anymore.

Iwoya wrote:I'm not sure how the thinking applies really. You say you're very shades of gray normally, but to be inward like that means you're caring and preserving very extreme all-or-nothing feelings about yourself. Like "I can't do anything right", as an example. Are you saying that you only apply all-or-nothing thinking to yourself?

I do have all or nothing feelings about myself. There are times when I feel confident - well, I don't know if I genuinely feel it, but I can display it - but usually, especially if I find myself alone and without distraction, I start thinking about what little I contribute to society and how much is wrong with me.

-- Fri May 31, 2013 12:02 pm --

aliveatnight wrote:I could have written this it describes me so well.

Carmilla: I know the feeling that you're talking about. I despise myself so much that sometimes I can't even look at myself without wanting to punch the mirror (or whatever it is). I feel utterly gross, worthless, useless and like I create problems no matter what I do. It's awful, and it makes asking someone for help so much harder, because we feel like we don't deserve to be helped. I'm sorry you know the feeling, I would never wish it on anyone.

Haha, I think you're my BPD twin (if you're diagnosed, I'm not sure if you are?)

Yes. I've gone through periods where I'll hit myself in the arm, or smack my hand against a wall, because I just can't stand to be in my own skin (and I don't self-mutilate anymore). I want to be someone else, so I'll take up traits of someone I idealize, in the hopes that it will give me a new identity and then, maybe, my self-esteem will improve.

You're right about asking for help. I don't want to go to a therapist and I'm afraid she'll be annoyed with me, not want to waste her time with me, and I'll have to stop myself every two seconds from apologizing for being an utter downer. Because I know I will be.

(By the way, I tried that ice thing. LOVED it.)

Empathy201 wrote:Oh sure, quote me BEFORE I finish making some quick edits!


Btw Carmilla, I saw your other post about over-reacting and that shows clear dichotomous / all-or-nothing thinking (e.g., text isn't returned immediately so they must hate you). Could it be that maybe you're unaware of how frequently that kind of thinking happens? I realize you know it happens during a high stress/emotional moment, but if those moments occur a lot, then you're doing a lot of that thinking.

I'm sorry!!! I'm answering this now!! I was going from top to bottom, hee!

Okay so - you're right. I do this a LOT, and I think I'm... trying to be more aware of it. This unnerves me a little, because I TRY to be aware, but I think I'm beginning to realize that I'm not as self-aware as I thought. I don't know how often it happens... maybe I should start keeping a diary.

- Today, because my SO sent me a text that ended with a dot instead of an exclamation point, I was convinced something was wrong and she was mad at me. Does that count?

Carmilla wrote:Haha, I think you're my BPD twin (if you're diagnosed, I'm not sure if you are?)

Yes. I've gone through periods where I'll hit myself in the arm, or smack my hand against a wall, because I just can't stand to be in my own skin (and I don't self-mutilate anymore). I want to be someone else, so I'll take up traits of someone I idealize, in the hopes that it will give me a new identity and then, maybe, my self-esteem will improve.

You're right about asking for help. I don't want to go to a therapist and I'm afraid she'll be annoyed with me, not want to waste her time with me, and I'll have to stop myself every two seconds from apologizing for being an utter downer. Because I know I will be.

(By the way, I tried that ice thing. LOVED it.)

It's a good feeling knowing that there are others who understand, even though I wish no one else had to feel like this. And yeah, I was diagnosed about a year ago.

I quit self injury (although there's still urges of course). If I see a trait in someone that I think is better, I try to copy them, usually unconsciously, so I can be better. I always felt that way in therapy, and I eventually quit.

I'm glad the ice thing helped you! Definitely keep using that if you ever need it. And I've been debating whether to have a diary again as well. I probably should, but I always slack off.

aliveatnight wrote:It's a good feeling knowing that there are others who understand, even though I wish no one else had to feel like this. And yeah, I was diagnosed about a year ago.

I quit self injury (although there's still urges of course). If I see a trait in someone that I think is better, I try to copy them, usually unconsciously, so I can be better. I always felt that way in therapy, and I eventually quit.

I'm glad the ice thing helped you! Definitely keep using that if you ever need it. And I've been debating whether to have a diary again as well. I probably should, but I always slack off.

I haven't been diagnosed yet, but I'm fairly confident it will be in the future for me. Ironically, I think I'll feel better with a diagnosis. By what I've posted so far (I'm not asking you to do an armchair diagnosis), do you think there's a strong likelihood?

I also quit self-injury (I was tired of the scars and the questions). My current vises are anti-anxiety meds and issues with anorexia/body image.

Similarly to you, I also try to take on others' good traits (or what I see as good), although this usually happens with fictional characters. I can also rapidly shift from character to character imitation, depending on what I'm idealizing at the moment. It makes it hard to know who I really am.

I'm going to try therapy and see how it goes, but I want individual therapy - I don't want to copy someone in group therapy or feel jealous of their progress while I'm left feeling worse than ever.

Y'know, I slack off with diaries too. Not sure why, because they're supposed to be so helpful. I just have a hard time gathering my thoughts long enough to write something of any merit. It doesn't help that I majored in creative writing and find myself doing more editing than actual writing.

Carmilla wrote:I haven't been diagnosed yet, but I'm fairly confident it will be in the future for me. Ironically, I think I'll feel better with a diagnosis. By what I've posted so far (I'm not asking you to do an armchair diagnosis), do you think there's a strong likelihood?

I also quit self-injury (I was tired of the scars and the questions). My current vises are anti-anxiety meds and issues with anorexia/body image.

Similarly to you, I also try to take on others' good traits (or what I see as good), although this usually happens with fictional characters. I can also rapidly shift from character to character imitation, depending on what I'm idealizing at the moment. It makes it hard to know who I really am.

I'm going to try therapy and see how it goes, but I want individual therapy - I don't want to copy someone in group therapy or feel jealous of their progress while I'm left feeling worse than ever.

Y'know, I slack off with diaries too. Not sure why, because they're supposed to be so helpful. I just have a hard time gathering my thoughts long enough to write something of any merit. It doesn't help that I majored in creative writing and find myself doing more editing than actual writing.

I felt better with one, once the initial shock wore off. I do think there's a very, very strong chance that you have it. You're very much like me, that's a reason I feel it's so much of an option.
I went through eating disorders. That's tough. I also don't know who I truly am. Things never want to stay still.

I did group therapy in the institution, and never again will I do that. Having to talk in front of all those people did not work well for me. I barely talked too. I hate things like that.

I have a hard time sticking with schedules too. I just can't do things like that. I think that's a big reason for me too. I will get literally pissed off if I can't find a way to explain what I want to say (and I struggle with that...so it happens way too often).