Armageddon

Generallyimpaired wrote:I personally don't believe the justice system is meant as a glorified system of vengeance so much as a tool to instill fear in the wicked.

not all under justice are wicked. The justice system is not only there to "blame" others but to also keep things in control. If humans knew and are allowed to do EVERYTHING they want to, with the realization that they'll never get punished for their actions, we'll live in a bloody jungle where everyone will start killing others for something. Keep in mind that we may be intelligent and capable of a lot of things, but we're still animals with natural programmed instincts which in certain situations are too overwhelming to control.

Whether our current justice system works the way it should and how big its effect is, is open for debate and can be argued very deeply.

Well on the justice question we didn't disagree at all. When I say wicked I mean those capable of being wicked or think about doing wicked things as well. Fear of repercussion prevents them from becoming a detriment to society.

I think at a certain point you have to realize that bringing down the justice on your persecutors might stop them, but it does nothing for you. You can realize they are the source, realize the damage they have inflicted, and get beyond it.

The reason we have this justice system of ours is so we can report those who break the morale code we adhere to. When i say fingerpoint I mean blame the world for your injuries and inadequacies, I don't mean letting others get away from the law out of compassion when you know they are dangerous. That is something entirely different.

When you allow yourself to blame the world for your flaws, you never blame yourself. You feel unable to repair the things you feel are wrong about you, you allow yourself to be a victim of circumstance.

I'm done after this one, the pessimist who believes he's a realist vs. the optimist who believes he's a realist debate has a tendency to last forever.

Generallyimpaired wrote:Well on the justice question we didnt disagree at all.

I think at a certain point you have to realize that bringing down the justice on your persecutors might stop them, but it does nothing for you. You can realize they are the source, realize the damage they have inflicted, and get beyond it.

this can be argued. Some people will get a HUGE relief (emotional & psychological) knowing and seeing that their wrongdoer gets what he deserves for what he did. It can also be argued that punishing someone may change him for the better. will it change him for the better? Very hard to say as it depends on a lot of factors and variables, including personal and non-personal ones.

The reason we have this justice system of ours is so we can report those who break the morale code we adhere to. When i say fingerpoint I mean blame the world for your injuries and inadequacies, I don't mean letting others get away from the law out of compassion when you know they are dangerous. That is something entirely different.

When you allow yourself to blame the world for your flaws, you never blame yourself. You feel unable to repair the things you feel are wrong about you, you allow yourself to be a victim of circumstance.

That's not true, especially the last paragraph. I blame BOTH myself and some of my old "friends" for my current problems. Actually, I blame myself a lot for how blind I was to not think about consequences. I also blame my "friends" for manipulating me (some people are really good at that and I'm not perfect to see everything) and afterward for mocking me behind my back about various things and thinking I'll never find out, which I eventually did directly during a situation where I was invited by one of my old "friends", was sent down to the living room to sleep as there was no place in his room, and my "friend" started mocking me and telling lies and BS behind my back while thinking I won't hear it but I did as the walls were very thin so I could hear everything he said. This is just one of the many examples people have contributed to my suffering. Do I blame the WHOLE world for my problems? Definitely not. Do I blame the WHOLE world for human suffering no matter what type of suffering it is? Definitely yes.

Ok I lied, I'd like to talk about the friends you believe were manipulating you. I know how you feel, I've felt the same way before. Sometimes people do #######5 things to gain attention especially when they're young and eager to be accepted, sometimes they don't even mean to harm or don't know much they will harm you and end up doing it anyway.

You can't just let what you think to be true run how you think, when it's as serious as this you have to ask. You have to know. You might find that these guys aren't as blackhearted as you think. And even if they are as dark as they seem, you have to see you let the blame on them so thick you let it shape your world view. You let the actions of a few change how you feel about everyone.

And another thing, don't undersell the strength of your perception, you aren't likely as easily manipulated as you think.

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Generallyimpaired wrote:Ok I lied, I'd like to talk about the friends you believe were manipulating you. I know how you feel, I've felt the same way before. Sometimes people do #######5 things to gain attention, sometimes they don't even mean to harm or don't know they will harm you and end up doing it anyway.

I don't feel anything about them, in fact when I think about what happened (which was some years ago) it does not seem to be that much of a deal to me but this does not directly say that they are forgiven and what they did is forgotten. As I said, this was only one example from these "friends". There were many more similar situations where I found out what they did afterwards - talking to others about me behind my back so they can convince them to stay away from me as I was, and I quote, "such a disgusting skinny monster". I can probably write a long essay about the things they've done and I found out only after, which I broke all contact with them very soon after finding out. In front of me though, they were the best friends one could wish for. Very caring, polite, funny, etc... pure hypocrites.

You can't just let what you believe run how you think, when it's as serious like this you have to ask. You might find that they aren't as blackhearted as you think.

See above... and why you think that what I believe, runs me? When I blame someone, I don't bother with him anymore and stay away as far as possible. If he tries to make up things, I will point him the finger to GTFO. This of course, depends on what he did and how severe the damage is. Forgiving him won't help me much, nor will it take away the pain caused. I don't function like that.

And another thing, don't undersell the strength of your perception. We AS may not pick up on many social things, but believe it or not some NTs suck at it as well.

I never said I was flawless and I very much realize that I make mistakes myself. What I can tell you though, is that I'll never hurt a person emotionally or physically because I know what it can lead to in the longer term as I take myself as example. I don't hate people as I said in another thread. I just dislike humans and human nature for the things they do, not only to them but also to their environment. Nature made a huge mistake making people with such strong emotions. It'll be much better for all if naturally emotions were a lot dimmer than they are now, this of course in my own opinion. Others are free to disagree

But you see it DOES run you. Pessimism is a reactive thing. They changed you, whether you believe what happened was a big deal or not anymore.

You know why I say all these things? Because the behavior makes absolutely no sense, they wouldn't just keep you around and have fun with you just to mock you. They could easily do that without befriending you, to be frank. It's outside the bounds of normal human behavior.

No, I think what happened was you heard a few negative things through that wall when some of them were mad at you or annoyed by you(If you have asperger's, which seems likely given your belief in the strength of your perception, you gotta realize we can be hard to deal with/understand at times) and you connected dots in your head that were never really connected.

Think of all the things you enjoyed together, all the time you spent together, doesn't it seem possible that they are not pure evil? I bet they even miss you.

Generallyimpaired wrote:But you see it DOES run you. Pessimism is a reactive thing. They changed you, whether you believe what happened was a big deal or not anymore.

No, it does not run me. I changed myself by using too much drugs without realizing its effects on me and the suffering it will cause later. What they did is contribute to my problems and for this I will blame them, and righteous so. The drugs I took had the BIGGEST effect on my situation, secondary and tertiary effects were from my "friends" and third-party people who intentionally or unintentionally caused me pain in one way or another. Pessimism is the believe that human nature is at its core wild, hard to tame, hurtful, deceptive for own benefit and egocentric, etc, etc which in the end offers a poor future outlook for the species itself. I see nothing wrong in pessimism as it gets confirmed daily by the world itself. I'm also to some extent and in certain situations an optimist as I do think that certain people can change for the better.

You know why I say all these things? Because the behavior makes absolutely no sense, they wouldn't just keep around someone and have fun with you just to mock you. They could easily do that without befriending you, to be frank. It's outside the bounds of normal human behavior.

And here's where you're sort of "blind" in these things. It makes a lot of sense to befriend someone and do bad things behind him afterwards. That way you get the pleasure of acting as a friend and enemy at the same time - lots of people enjoy doing that. And since you're friends you get the chance of getting much closer to the person itself and possibly discovering deep secrets he won't share with anyone else, thus you get the chance of using it against him in a possible situation... Also, my "friends" were back from school days, so you get the picture (I hope)

No, I think what happened was you heard a few negative things through that wall when some of them were mad at you or annoyed by you(If you have asperger's, which seems likely given your belief in the strength of your perception, you gotta realize we can be hard to deal with/understand at times) and you connected dots in your head that were never really connected.

Think of all the things you enjoyed together, all the time you spent together, doesn't it seem possible that they are not pure evil? I bet they even miss you.

Why do most people who come here get diagnosed with AS in one way or another? I do not have AS, I'm a self-diagnosed schizoid. At the moment, I do not care what others think/don't think about me or do. What I told you so far, is how I became like this. There are many more things I haven't mentioned here so I don't believe you can get to judge who's right or wrong in my situation. What I said here, is not even the top of the iceberg...

And why would they get mad at me? There were moments when they were mad at me for something and said so right in my face. Why didn't they say they were mad in this very situation but in other situations they did clearly? Also they had no reason to be annoyed by me as I was neither jumpy nor too calm. We had a very good time, played games, watched movies etc and everything seemed fine. If there was something wrong, I am more than capable of reading it based on their expression/body language... No, what they did was intentional, very clearly so. I also don't understand how you can defend people you have never met and been with and try to justify their actions in a good way

Dude, I'm not defending them. I'm trying to help you. No need to get hostile. You never once mentioned drug usage.

Well the AS assumption may have been rash, but you should really get an official diagnosis if you can. I don't claim to know you, and I don't doubt your intelligence, but really, certain things are just worth getting verified.

So as a schizoid you used drugs to escape your problems and hate the people who sold them to you. And your friends were also drug users. Ok, they were manipulating you to feed their narcissism, I could see that.

I simply saw an overlying theme of extreme pessimism in everything you've posted and saw a paranoia I thought you might be able to get over.

Generallyimpaired wrote:Dude, I'm not defending them. I'm trying to help you. No need to get hostile. You never once mentioned drug usage.

What did I say that makes you think I'm getting hostile? Did I swear or did I attack you in a hurtful way? if so, do tell where. I just explained certain things you didn't know and pointed out certain things you misinterpreted due to lack of knowledge about my situation

Also, I'm not really here to get help. If you have read some of my other posts, very few are about me asking any sort of help. I'm here mostly to offer advice and/or discuss things.

Well the AS assumption may have been rash, but you should really get an official diagnosis if you can. I don't claim to know you, and I don't doubt your intelligence, but really, certain things are just worth getting verified.

That's easily said than done. I have private and non-private reasons why I'm not diagnosed yet. I also doubt that a psych can look inside of me and tell me the right diagnosis. The last psych I visited didn't even know the difference between social phobia and paranoia. I also don't have $$$ and can't get them for anywhere and there are other things I won't mention here.

So as a schizoid you used drugs to escape your problems and hate the people who sold them to you. And your friends were also drug users. Ok, they were manipulating you to feed their narcissism, I could see that.

No, I used to use drugs. I stopped 9 years ago when it threw me in a huge severe clinical depression for many years to come. I locked myself inside for 9 years and basically became a real recluse who till today doesn't go out of his house much, except to snap some air at midnight and go to the hairdresser once a month.

I do not hate the people who sold it to me. I was the one who wanted it in the first place and it was a conscious decision to take it. I DISLIKE and IGNORE people who have done damage to me, I do not hate them as I seem to be missing the 'hate' and 'jealousy' emotions. People no longer interest me and social stuff also no longer interests me. I find much pleasure in my own solitary things I do and my own hobbies. Human interaction is of no importance to me as I have become extremely indifferent to what happens/doesn't happen, what others do or don't.