Can anyone explain to me...

What the difference is between social anxiety disorder and avoidant personality disorder? They seem about the same to me. Can someone have one without the other?

Avpd seems to be more deep pervasive. It's like social anxiety PLUS. You can have social anxiety and not have low self esteem. That is a trait of avpd -along with extreme sensitivity and feelings of inadequacy.

Yes. A lot of people seem to think AvPD is just an extreme case of SAD, but I see a big difference between the two. A lot of people with SAD are so afraid of people and/or the outside world that they can't leave their house. A trip to the grocery store would be excruciating or impossible. That is of course an extreme case, which a lot of people seem to label as AvPD. One thing I've noticed though among people with SAD is that it isn't unusual to have one or two extremely, intensely emotionally close friends, while talking to a stranger would be mental torture.

On the other hand, while I think it's unlikely to have AvPD without at least some SAD, the SAD part doesn't have to be quite so crippling to feel the emotional pain of AvPD. Someone with AvPD isn't scared of other people, but thinks he/she is worthless and therefore doesn't have anything interesting to say to other people. This lack of self-esteem is often obvious and therefore people don't react well when they do try to talk, crippling their self-esteem even more. For me it isn't hard to make small talk with, like, the bank teller or customers at work or whatever, but in social settings I clam up because I don't think I have anything worthwhile to say. In certain situations I can be friendly with people (if it isn't too crowded for me to think and be heard) and start to make friends, but becoming close to people is the hardest for me because I don't share enough of myself and my life, since I believe that I am uninteresting and nothing that people would care about has ever happened to me.

I also remember one little detail that made avpd different from social anxiety is that during interaction the social phobe monitors his/her own reactions and how they might be perceived. Whereas an avoidant additionally (!) monitors eveything around him/her, especially the other person's reactions and body language.

I think maybe the 'additionally' might confuse people in thinking avdp = (social anxiety) + (something more)

SAD and AvPD are similar, but they both have different side effects if that's what you want to call them. Like Parador said, AvPD is like Social Anxiety Disorder PLUS with a few extra features.

I think that hannnnaa explained it well. i've always felt that SAD is more about performing in social situation whereas APD is more about not being able to relate to people, come close to them and about low self-esteem.

Are people with AvPD usually able to informally talk with strangers? I've always had the ability to talk with customers at the grocery store where I used to work, yet would have difficulty opening up to the coworkers I had known for months. That paradox had until relatively recently baffled me.

A real life Shinji wrote:

Jason101 wrote:Are people with AvPD usually able to informally talk with strangers? I've always had the ability to talk with customers at the grocery store where I used to work, yet would have difficulty opening up to the coworkers I had known for months. That paradox had until relatively recently baffled me.

I'm the same way. I have very low levels of social phobia and I can function. But I find it very difficult to make that deeper connection.

It doesn't matter who it is, the only thing that will make me open up is if someone asks me a question. I give them a simple answer in a nice way hoping they won't get mad at me just in case it doesn't come out clear. I did that with my sociology teacher once. I was terrified because my response sort of came out weird and he looked at me like I was crazy. Just thinking of situations like that gives me the chills.

the same with me. currently I'm working in childcare and i'm finding it surprisingly easy to talk to other mother and carers, all the time and i enjoy it a lot. maybe because i feel relaxed. but connecting on deeper level, especially with people who are 'supposed' to be my friends - just a few people that i hang out with and whom i really like but can't bond more closely - is another story. I never feel secure, always feel that I'm the least liked and likeable of the group, that the others only tolerate me because they're being kind and wouldn't even notice or would be relieved if i were gone. not because they're not good people, they are nice etc, it's just impossible to like me, that's how i feel about it. but i stick to this little group because i'm in a new country.

i do have social anxiety but it's not very strong and not in all situations.