Parent of APD adult needs advice.

I am the parent of someone with an avoidant personality disorder.
My adult child is total loner and for a long time I was her only safe person. Now she is imagining that even I am saying hurtful things that no one else would see as hurtful. She is avoiding and offending me and openly rejecting me as she has everyone else. She pushes me away with her very cold, angry ways.Any ideas how I can reach her and make her feel safe again? She is so alone. I feel sorry for her and then I get hurt and angry by her rageful attempts to push me away. I often feel like giving up.

Hi there,

I am sorry you are having some problems. i am very interested in the way people who are not avoidant perceive the behaviour of avoidants.

can i ask has she been diagnosed with Avpd? being angry isn't a usual response of avoidants, quite the opposite, we avoid conflict.

for myself if someone would not leave me alone when i needed space it would be intolerable, i would eventually crack into anger but it would take a long while. mostly i would go into myself.

cold, angry ways?rageful attempts to push me away?

sounds like she wants to be left alone...why not give her the option of contacting you when she needs to?

i cannot know anything about you, so do not be offended, write some more.

Hi,
I think Linda cut really quickly to some vital points.
To expand, you mention, "her very cold, angry ways..."
"Cold" may describe how they are experienced by you.
Avoidants generally want a lot of distance - and control over when & how.
Similarly, you refer to "her rageful attempts to push me away..."
Since you are not an APD yourself, you may have trouble appreciating how much pain unwanted attention / closeness may cause to someone who is APD.

I understand that you might really want to have a daughter you can be closer to... But she was only 4'5" tall and you really wanted a daughter who was 5'7" tall you probably wouldn't put her on a rack to stretch her out.

Extraverted, socially comfortable people often have a lot of trouble imagining that some people really need MUCH huger amounts of space & alone time.

With support and therapy she may learn to be more comfortable with *some* more closeness... But she'll probably never be the pal-around-with-mom daughter that some moms have.

Sorry if that seems like harsh or unwanted news.

Just my 2cents.

I went through the same thing with my parents. Here is how it went down with me.

I would get angry and cold towards my parents when they would expect me to do things that would make me incredibly uncomfortable without having any empathy for my situation.

And if I felt they weren't being genuine when they wanted to talk to me about how I'm feeling and such, I would definitely get mad or cold. You have to be truthful and genuine. Let your kid know you aren't trying to get close to her for your sake.

Also, most importantly, as Linda said

for myself if someone would not leave me alone when i needed space it would be intolerable, i would eventually crack into anger but it would take a long while. mostly i would go into myself.

you will not get anywhere with your child if you push an avoidant. It will make them crazy. This is the most important thing, from my experience.

I hope this helps.

linda1656 wrote:can i ask has she been diagnosed with Avpd? being angry isn't a usual response of avoidants, quite the opposite, we avoid conflict.

Avoiding conflict and getting very angry are independent of one another. A cold, angry gaze is common from avoidants.

for myself if someone would not leave me alone when i needed space it would be intolerable, i would eventually crack into anger but it would take a long while. mostly i would go into myself.

Let me further describe this intolerability...

Someone corners you in some situation. Maybe you've been forced by your parents to have a "talk". Maybe someone wants to know your feelings.

Instead of an avoidant thinking "I wonder if I should tell person X how I feel, but I don't think I should because it is embarassing.", an avoidant person stops thinking. All they can do is feel the absolute dread and terror of being humiliated, shamed, and embarrassed. A majority of the dread is from being vulnerable.

The crossing point between normal and avoidant behaviors is the avoidant never even considering revealing their feelings. It is not even thought of, there is simply a knee-jerk reaction to leave... immediately.

Here is my best subjective comparison:

For one reason or another, someone else has imposed their will on you, and you see it as unfair. You become unfathomably frustrated and irritated with what they are doing. I am not referring to some long, drawn out action. I am speaking of having someone screaming at your face, yelling, telling you everything you can or can't do because you misbehaved. Frustration... irritability.

Imagine having this irritability and frustration mixed with severe sadness and the feelings of vulnerability accompanying having someone who you trusted and loved very much... having just cheated on you. Sadness, vulnerability.

All of the above four things are combined into one giant emotional break down that pisses you off endlessly, makes you feel dreadfully vulnerable, frustrated that someone is attempting to unveil your emotions or feelings, and anger.

A lack of anger/frustration is possible, and probably often. Nonetheless, there anger and frustration is going to exist more often than not when the avoidant is confronted and forced to do something against her will, while the sadness and vulnerability is always existent.

i am going a little off topic here but can i say I was very moved by what Kane wrote. i felt he did understand a little of how it feels to be avoidant. Is it something you have read Kane?

I am interested in the presumption of coldness and anger. I certainly am not aware that I am cold, but then I must be if I withdraw? it is not my intention to be so, it is more a survival tactic which is so ingrained, so automatic that i am not really aware of it.

For myself I fear enmeshment or engulfment more than anything, but shame is there, the fear of being reviled for some perceived weakness. The fear of disclosure is greater than the fear of being alone.

By revealing vunerability there automatically starts a complex chain of thoughts which are impossible to process in the time frame of an interaction.

The chemical reactions these thoughts induce produce distressing symptoms of panic, anxiety and cognitive disfunction. In order to alevate the distress I will choose, subconsciously or not to withdraw from the person or event which produces this untenable situation.

I have spent a lot of years fighting these reactions, not really understanding what was happening. It certainly isn't, as some would have it, merely being difficult, unsociable, lazy or 'can't be bothered'

Good luck with your daughter.

Ddaily, All I can suggest is letting your daughter know that you are there for her but as an adult, she must sort her problems out in her own time and in her own way. I agree with the others here. Pushing avoidants will not get results.

You mention that you were her only safe person and you want make her feel safe again. What makes you think she is unsafe? Is/was there some unsafe element in her life? - in your life?

Try to do things that your daughter likes. Make her favourite food, buy her clothes, cd's and stuff that she wants. Let her come to terms with her situation. Dont push her into socialising or getting a boyfriend, or else she will hate you for the pressure you are putting on her.

Summarizing Important things to do:
#1 - Don't push her at all, if anything, completely ignore the situation - for the time being anyway. Before you do this, a small, short, simple comment like 'I'll let you talk about it when your ready' might help.

#2 - When she is ready, don't be pushy about anything. If she really, extremely starts to open up, then TINY, TINY bits of asking questions MIGHT be acceptable.

#3 - Be careful how you word things around an avoidant. They will read into it more than you can imagine. The more 'carefree' you seem around them, the more they are likely to relax around you.
As an avoidant myself, I can tell you the people who raise my anxiety the most are those who I cannot read, or seem to observe alot more than I would like them to. If I can't get a general idea of what they are getting out of a conversation or situation, I will start to think they are getting more than I want of them to get, and will stop it there.

You'll notice most of my points involve not pushing her about it. The second she feels like your pushing in on her, or digging into her, or trying to know more about her than she feels comfortable about, is the second you will get shut out and pushed back to the beginning again. Take her out of the spotlight. This will, after some time has passed, allow her to take down her defenses some.
AvPD is something that, for the most part, 'active' pushing is not likely to fix. I'm sure this has got to be extremely hard on a worried parent, but your best option, atleast with how she is reacting now, is to leave her alone for a while.
However, make sure you keep general conversation up. Talk about whatever is of interest or importance. Small conversations about whatever, not related to herself. Even if its a simple talk about a TV show you like, or whatever.
From my experience as a AvPD, I am more likely to open up to someone who is more of a 'friend' than a 'parent' figure. I'm not saying drop the roll as parent - but about whatever situations you can, just try to be more relaxed about it all.

And a few quotes from others i'd like to emphasize

Dont push her into socialising or getting a boyfriend, or else she will hate you for the pressure you are putting on her.

Stuff like this feels 100000000 times more pressure than you think it is for an AvPD.

Lastly:

Now she is imagining that even I am saying hurtful things that no one else would see as hurtful.

As an avoidant, I know its very easy for me to take the simplist of comments, and twist them around to mean something that they obviously don't. That doesn't make me feel better, nor does it ever remove the belief that they are true. I will then also search for evidence that those are true, and can just as easily twist something else around to be that evidence.

I am very glad I discovered this forum. All the people who responded are very helpful in letting me see things from my daughter's point of view. I have not called her for two weeks nor have I e mailed her. "leaving her alone for a while" as some of you have suggested. When I do phone her, I will keep the conversation very casual and not about "us", which is the topic I really would want to discuss. I do choose my words carefully but never carefully enough I guess. She reads things into what I say or don't say or do. This forum will help me learn what topics to avoid. I know if I don't call her, she may never call me. She does not reach out to ANYONE. When I say she is cold. I do not mean, just aloof. She is actually very critical of me and others, never shows one ounce of caring about anyone. Martin Kantor in his book on the Avoidant Personality Disorder called "Distancing" describes the way the ones who are also depressed can be very critical and show anger. I do not fight back so she usually does not have to worry about a confrontation when she pushes me away with criticism. I will hang in there (at a distance) and be as gentle and non pushy as possible. I am sending thanks to all of you. I will continue to tune in to this forum. The Mom