Loneliness, Isolation, and Inability to connect to others

It's hard for me to see and experience things as "normal" people do when my whole life has not been normal or felt the same as theirs. My experiences have been different so of course my behavior is going to be different. In order for me to fit in better with the norm, I actually have to be able to feel more normal. In order to do that, I have to do normal things. Thats not going to feel natural to me. In fact, it's going to feel very weird, causing me anxiety. How much can people change? A persons individual experiences, genetics, culture and environment have molded us into what we are. No one wishes to be abnormal and isolated, yet, that's the cards were dealt. How much can people change their personality? Depends on how they feel inside, what motivates them, how much they have the capacity to let go of and then replace with something better.

As for finding someone to bond with, it seems it's not enough to bond with someone who is dysfunctional in the same way we are...and we are all dysfunctional in some way, some more than others. It's perhaps getting to a level that we can tolerate and be tolerated by someone whose issues don't conflict with ours, and vice versa.

We cannot be who we are not. We can change our perceptions somewhat, by experiencing normal things, become accepting and possibly appreciative of ours, and others, uniqueness and perspective. how much a person wants to open themselves up to change is a personal choice. Some of us just don't have the capacity to change, or see things as needing to change. In that case we need acceptance of ourselves as we are. I guess that's where I'm at...what do I want, and how well does it fit me. After all life's to be enjoyed.

Very well said. This is me. Over the years, I've gotten better at communicating with people in general, but at the end of the day, I'm not a "normal" person, and never will be one, so I will never really be able to learn the whole range of ways on how normal people actually interact with other normal people on a short-term and long-term basis. I just muddle through and do the best I can. I see myself as a scarred/damaged person who is trying to do the best I can within this huge box of limitations and issues.

It's okay if people I meet have issues (mental or otherweise) as long as their issues don't conflict with my issues or trigger them even more. That's been my philosophy for years now.

Klrskies wrote:It's hard for me to see and experience things as "normal" people do when my whole life has not been normal or felt the same as theirs. My experiences have been different so of course my behavior is going to be different. In order for me to fit in better with the norm, I actually have to be able to feel more normal. In order to do that, I have to do normal things. Thats not going to feel natural to me. In fact, it's going to feel very weird, causing me anxiety. How much can people change? A persons individual experiences, genetics, culture and environment have molded us into what we are. No one wishes to be abnormal and isolated, yet, that's the cards were dealt. How much can people change their personality? Depends on how they feel inside, what motivates them, how much they have the capacity to let go of and then replace with something better.

As for finding someone to bond with, it seems it's not enough to bond with someone who is dysfunctional in the same way we are...and we are all dysfunctional in some way, some more than others. It's perhaps getting to a level that we can tolerate and be tolerated by someone whose issues don't conflict with ours, and vice versa.

We cannot be who we are not. We can change our perceptions somewhat, by experiencing normal things, become accepting and possibly appreciative of ours, and others, uniqueness and perspective. how much a person wants to open themselves up to change is a personal choice. Some of us just don't have the capacity to change, or see things as needing to change. In that case we need acceptance of ourselves as we are. I guess that's where I'm at...what do I want, and how well does it fit me. After all life's to be enjoyed.

Others have made some of the comments I wanted to so I won't repeat those.
I do identify with some of what you feel and the behaviors you have spoken of.

I have suffered from major depression since my mid-teens and have also exhibited several symptoms of AvPD and SA/SP for a similar amount of time. Only the depression has been diagnosed however.
My life to this point feels like a complete waste and I have yet to find any real joy, pleasure or point to it all. So much is empty, pointless and devoid of interest/pleasure for me. I am as fed up with living as I have done, for as long as I have done, as anyone can be. Enduring the suffering seems to be mostly what I have been doing and I seem to have "lived" most of my life in my head, rather than experiencing it.

There could well be multiple issues/aspects going on with yourself, as indeed is often the case with people who have conditions that encourage/create isolation or the hiding oneself.
One of the issues is that we spend lots of time analyzing ourselves but that analysis is rarely accurate. The same problem can be found when we think about other people, when we turn to comparison - our judgement is not often accurate or fair.
Thus, operating with these handicaps is likely to create a defective set of thoughts or perceptions about "X" and as we all know, thoughts become action and what we end up doing or not doing as a result of defective thinking gives us our first hand life experiences. We then judge those life experiences as if they are true, which then become our truth.

Its also very tempting for people who have issues with dealing with people in real life to use the web to facilitate contact (because it feels safe), but like so-called social media, its a faux experience at best, as well as being riddled with many issues, traps and dangers, all of which are tricky for those people who struggle with social contact, such as those with AvPD. Spending a lot/too much time engaging with others who are like us or who have other issues is also a problem, as the more we spend time focusing on something, the more of that we will have. The web is a security blanket for people who have avoidant behavior and using it as the main or only social contact will only perpetuate that behavior, not lessen it. I know you don't want to hear that as I am sure others do not too, including myself and I spend most of my day in front of my computer.

Furthermore, mental health/personality disorders are extremely complex things to understand and understanding exactly what is going on with any one person is very, very hard and tricky for professionals to do and get right, never mind for lay people.

Since I stop working 4 years ago, my avoidant behavior, my isolating behavior and my various fears and intolerances have increased. While I know that my avoidant behavior won't magically go away if I interacted with people, its logical to deduce that my avoidant/isolating behavior and the feelings that go with those behaviors would lessen if I did so. I would also, in all likelihood, discover that my fears about people and what they think of me aren't close to what I think they are.
My problem seems to be that I can't seem to get that interested in people and I don't know why.

I also feel burdened when people bring me into their lives, with all that is going on, what they have to deal with, etc. Life is too much for me as it is. If I ever watch bad things on TV that are happening or have happened to someone, whether in reality or a movie, I feel the pain as if it was me.
I have tried volunteering but this didn't work for me, as indeed all kinds of "doing" don't.

I suspect I have an issue with connecting to people, but I don't know why or how this has come about.

I do know deep down the truth that is waiting for me, whenever it is that I can face it, which is that, like with phobias, I will not be able to conquer my fear of people without confronting my fear and engaging with people in some way. Social contact doesn't have to follow any rules or "social norms" if you don't feel that works for you. You can define your own ways of contact/contexts. Perhaps a small amount of social contact can be achieved through your dogs if you can find other dog owners that are near you or who are around the route that you take. It could just be eye contact to start with, or a smile. A hello could follow when you're ready, if you ever are with any particular person.

Finally, I would like to say that its important to distinguish between personality and dysfunctional behavior and while dysfunctional behavior can be changed, personalities cannot. For me and I would imagine for others too, I don't know how much of what makes me today is personality/preference/lifestyle choices and what part of me is or has being caused by my ailments. I cannot know this until the dysfunctions/issues are lessened or removed.

I agree with the other poster who suggested to look for friends somewhere other than mental health forums.

SSDD-247 wrote:I have tried volunteering but this didn't work for me, as indeed all kinds of "doing" don't.

Very nice post.. well written.

I'm wondering if you could expand a bit on why volunteering didn't work for you. I'm trying to get up the courage and find a good cause around me.. I volunteered once with the Red Cross. It helped a lot. I was desperate at the time to not have a gap in my resume, so I volunteered to do office work. I believe that went a long way in getting a real job a couple of months later.

It's not easy to do these things though.

skyflyz wrote:

SSDD-247 wrote:I have tried volunteering but this didn't work for me, as indeed all kinds of "doing" don't.

Very nice post.. well written.

I'm wondering if you could expand a bit on why volunteering didn't work for you. I'm trying to get up the courage and find a good cause around me.. I volunteered once with the Red Cross. It helped a lot. I was desperate at the time to not have a gap in my resume, so I volunteered to do office work. I believe that went a long way in getting a real job a couple of months later.

It's not easy to do these things though.

Thanks for your compliment.
I am not fond of words or language and I have to work hard to put down in this primitive form of communication what is in my mind and what I feel.

I volunteered at a horse ranch that provides therapy for troubled children. At first, it was good and I looked forward to going there. I did different tasks, all more or less unskilled stuff but I learned pretty quickly as none of it was really hard. But after a few months, it just became a chore (like so much of life is for me) and I began to not want to go anymore. And so I quit.
I have not desired to go back or indeed to try anything else. Nothing about the facility was wrong, the people were all nice, etc. I just wasn't motivated or wanted it anymore. It wasn't giving me anything.

Other people have tried to encourage me to volunteer in other ways, telling me that I would get benefit from helping others, but this too doesn't interest me at all. The benefit that my helping others would bring them does not appear to be a reason in itself to get me involved in some kind of "doing" activity. It just doesn't motivate me at all and I don't know why.

I finally figured out that what ails me is that I'll never be young again in my time. I can never go home again. That is why I'm "lonely".

But since I can't do anything about that I've been trying for second best and trying to make some intellectual friends and project comrades. (Pure socializing is crushingly boring and pointless to me.)

Although the description of "covert narcissist" that I think very well describes me lists social anxiety as a trait, and I may have it, I also have a general boredom and disrespect for most people. I can't help it. I just can't relate to them. I also see in myself the description of the "secret" and "languid" schizoid, and reading between the lines of the many descriptions I've read of it, I am sure I am deeply plagued by "schizoid loneliness"---a desire to connect but a knowledge deep down, that for whatever reason, YOU CAN'T. The only way I can describe it is being ravenously hungry for some food you can't quite identify, and knowing that whatever you try, will leave you unsatisfied.

I've done the whole Craigslist thing and have met and visited with a few people based on common interests and values, but they've never kept in touch, even though I think I've tried. I read a book a number of years ago called The Killing Gift by Bari Wood. It was about a woman named Dr. Jennifer List, a woman who could not connect with others, no matter how hard she tried. It's a schizoid classic with a science-fiction twist. I very much identify with her.

I haven't given up completely, but I'm willing to accept that this is just the way I am---a freak. But even as a freak, a social mutant, I can carve out a decent and purposeful life. I can make a contribution. Very few people will notice, but I'm okay with that.

I can relate so much to these posts.

I can't understand how "normal" people really derive value from their lives.
I know it must be about connections to others.
I want to be close to others and have friends, but I don't know how.
I don't trust others well enough. I don't have the energy for other people a lot of the time. I don't know where to start. I'm not good at small talk.
I'm tired of being lonely. I'm so unbelieveably lonely.
I have my partner, and that's it. This creates so many relationship problems as you can imagine.
I even feel afraid to make friends because it will take time and energy from my relationship with my partner.

I need to get a job, but I'm afraid to that too. The whole time I'm at work I feel like leaving. Every minute I was at my last job I wanted to be anywhere but there. I can't stand having to be somewhere every day, even when I dont feel like it, which is all the time. Any time that I'm not working is spent being anxious about going to work,

I don't understand how "normal" people just suck it up every day and go to work and even seem to enjoy it.
I'm so envious of other people's ability to enjoy just being.

I apologise for the rant, I just wanted to express that.
I don't know what to do.

There are times when I would like to be with other people and here are a couple of examples.

1. When I watch college football and the camera pans to the crowd and who are in some sort of synchronized singing or physical movement. Its a beautiful thing to see and I would want to be in the midst of that crowd, for that moment. The feeling of belonging I think is what is at play here.

After the delights of watching this moment or moments, I then think about all the things that need to also be present each side of this moment. The varying levels of socializing, the fact that some of the people would want to know who I am, etc., the massive amounts of time that are not like this moment and which are drudgery, empty, mundane and are the many things that I don't like about life.

2. Hearing little kids laughter, silliness, their take on all the various stuff in life that they see or experience. It can be quite sweet and tear jerking.

The obvious problem with this is the key things that need to be in place before you can have an environment in which such things can be a feature, things which require lots of time and energy. Like 1, there are also huge amounts of time either side of these lovely moments that are anything but lovely and beautiful.

So much of life is a such an effort for me and this has been something that has become more apparent to me in recent years. I don't know what this is about, but I am very aware of my behavior and the reduced level and narrow range of activities that I have confined myself to.

I don't actually know what I am missing with friends because I've not really had them in my life. Its quite a mystery to me. My family lives in another country, very far away from me and I don't have any family where I live. I was never close with my family anyway, so the feeling of having those people with whom you can got to, or lean on etc., is not a feeling or a desire I have.

I don't know if I want to be close to people or not because I don't understand it and its not like something that is innate in me, like hunger or thirst is. So its not automatic for me to look to others for anything. I was alone even growing up in the familial home (we seemed to live like separate people sharing the same house).

I feel the loss of will to live with small talk and inane social banter and have always felt this way even when my symptoms were much less severe. I don't criticize other people who do this because I do understand why they do it and what purpose it serves. I am just no good at it and the key problem for me, in addition to the symptoms of AvPD, is simply not knowing things to say and which don't sound contrived, or saying them doesn't make me sound contrived, awkward, uncomfortable, etc., which can make the person I am trying to talk to feel that such displays of discomfort are directed at them.
I also find I run out of things to say t some point and then there is silence as I don't know what to do.

As to how people do the friends thing and have jobs and not appear to have any issues, well, I think we can refer to those things that we do that are easy for us, but which would be hard for others, like isolating, hiding, avoiding, as well as solitary activities that some of us do. We don't really have to try to do these things as they are "natural" for us. Ergo, those other things that we find hard are natural for others who don't ever have to think about them, or certainly not in the way we do.