A Couple Questions

What your ideas are on a few things on the following:

1-Do you experience depression frequently?

2-How do you experience AvPD, and why would you call it that as apposed to Severe SA, and depression?

Some things I've read say AvPD and SA are on a continuum. A lot of the symptoms overlap, especially if you throw in depressive symptoms. Or SA with introversion. I've just been very depressed for the past year, and on and off for most of my life. I've always had social anxiety. I'm just wondering what things I can hope to improve...in treating my depression.

I'm just struggling with this this depression, mood, lack of interest, and energy.

3-Is this just an inevitable part of AvPD to be sad, and the rest of it???

4-Do you find pleasure in life? What do you like to do?


Thanks

Some good questions there Loneman. To answer them

1. For me I think my depression has been there forever but at different kind of levels. For a lot of the time it's more like background noise. But then other times it's like I got hit by a truck and can't function at all. I would say there have probably been 4 big episodes of that kind of severe depression.

2. For me personally AvPD is about not getting too close to anyone. I don't really suffer from social anxiety. I can walk into a room of strangers and I will be the one who gets people talking, I talk to people in shops, on public transport. I can go to concerts and the movies, travel on holiday on my own. Often when I've gone away on holiday I find instead of my getting away for a bit of peace and quiet I end up with lots of holiday friends so I often get very little time to myself. But if one of those people were to suggest keeping in touch, getting together back at home etc I push them away. It's almost like I don't know what friends are. Very, very few people would ever go into my "friends" category. But I am not shy or anxious around people generally. But it's like I can't let anyone get close because then they will see the real me, the one with the empty, lonely life and I can't imagine why anyone would want to be friends with me. That's when I get anxious and if I do let people in then it just turns into a push/pull game. Because I am very introverted I am often ok with my own company.

3. I think there is a basic human need for companionship. Without relationships a lot of your emotional needs go unmet. And you become very aware not only of your faults but the fact that other people have friends and families and social lives whereas I feel like I don't know how to do any of that. As if I missed some vital lesson at school or something. I can't see how anyone could endure that for too long without getting depressed.

4. Right now very little gives me any pleasure at all. But it hasn't always been like that. A lot of the stuff I like to do though is very much on my own - reading, movies, music, photography, hiking, travel, writing. When the depression hit bad I lost interest in all of it. I haven't taken a photo since 2012. I still watch movies but an hour or so after I've watched it I couldn't tell you anything at all about the movie or who was in it or what it was called. So it ends up being a distraction to fill time rather than something I enjoy. I used to enjoy my job, now I can't imagine ever doing the job again. It's like the depression stole everything. It also made me very aware of the fact that everything I do I do alone and that in itself made me depressed. When I go walking and see other people with friends and family and wonder why did no one ever want to be with me etc.

Anyway just my take on some of the questions. Not sure if any of that helps?

1. I don't experience depression much. I had it once for 5 months. Other than that one time, I haven't been depressed. If I mess things up badly enough, I will get depressed.

2. For me, AvPD is mostly about how close to people I can get. I love my friends very dearly, but I have periods where I have to pull away so I don't accidentally hurt their feelings. I just feel a need to protect them from this beast living inside of me. Outside of my two friends, I don't have much emotional attachment with anyone. I don't care about most people, who only annoy and disgust me. Then there's the low self-esteem, cynicism, and self hatred that comes because I've messed up. I don't feel that I have Social Anxiety. I get nervous around my friends from time to time. I don't like to speak in front of a crowd, but I manage. If I say the wrong thing or do something wrong, I'll get embarrassed quite a bit. But for the most part, I'm okay around people. A little uncomfortable, but I've never been triggered because I was awkward or nervous. I very much prefer being alone.

3. It is completely possible for me to be happy with AvPD. I just have to stay on top of things. I can't be reckless and I have got to be smart about things. Otherwise my AvPD shows its face more and more. I get emotionally isolated, sad, and not energetic when I get too stressed out and pull away from my friends. But If I keep my stress levels low and stick by my friends, things will be fine and I'll be content.

4. I find some pleasure in life. What makes me most happy is when my friends spend time with me. That's one of the few things that make me actually happy, near everything else is a fake happiness which fools my body. I like to read fantasy books. I'm trying to write a novel. I parkour, and exercise in general is rather fun. But all of that stuff means next to nothing when I'm stressed out. I can't have pleasure while I feel guilty for leaving my friends' side.

Hi Loneman

My answers-
1. Yes, I also have a major depression diagnosis. I've been on and off antidepressants since I was 16 (I'm now 30). I've not had a lot of relief from them though- my depression is hard to treat/has not been properly treated in the past. I'm still on them now- they're dulling it a bit in that I'm not suicidal all the time and squashing a little bit of anxiety, but it's all still there. I go through episodes of just managing and episodes of not functioning. When my depression is worse, so is my avoidance.

2. I have severe SA as well as depression and AvPD, so they're all a little tangled up together for me. But I know the AvPD is my not wanting to be close to people, my being mistrustful and my feeling so inferior and unworthy. The social anxiety is the not wanting to be around any more than perhaps two or three people at a time, and the depression can just exaggerate those feelings and make me not feel like dealing with anyone anyway. Social anxiety is more anxiety dealing with specific social situations whereas AvPD is more dealing with being close to people. There's some more info on it here avoidant-personality/topic136761.html

3. I believe depression is quite common in those with AvPD. It's something that can be more easily treated though.

4. Not really. I've really thrown myself into improving my fitness and achieving some new personal records with that, but I always feel like I'm trying to fill the big black hole inside me. I used to be into music a lot- I still am, but I'm not playing the piano like I used to- it was something I really enjoyed. I've really lost interest in a lot of things- depression sucks.

What about you Loneman?

1. I only had one anxiety depression episode which was severe for a few months and then sort of tailed off. I mainly get anxiety rather than depression, although i have always had a certain level of anhedonia for as long as i remember and it got worse since the episode.

2. From what I have read, AvPD is a more accurate description for me than anxiety disorders. It is not a question of severity- I would say that my symptoms are not terribly severe, its just that in what i have read the other things like social anxiety/social phobia seem to me to be qualitatively different. They are described in terms of more situational stuff, like fear of crowds, public speaking, new people etc. In some ways those things seem quite opposite of avoidance, crowds offer anonymity, public speaking is scary but in a way it is easier than an informal conversation because I can maintain distance and basically be an actor, usually familiar people are more scary than strangers because I feel more exposed to them, etc.

3. I think it does depend quite a bit on circumstances. Right now i am generally not that sad or miserable, just sort of numb, with bouts of anxiety. But if i were in a situation where i was obliged to have a lot of interaction with people, then without anything much internally changing in me, I would most likely feel awful all or most of the time.

4. Anhedonia is a big problem for me. Nominally i enjoy my work, in that it is what i always wanted to do and i used to experience enjoyment of it and still do find it worthwhile. But these days i dont seem to get much pleasure out of any constructive activity.

Hi

I pretty much concur with what other people have said.

1. Yes I have bouts of depression and have experienced it since I was 14 (now 43). I have suffered with it in varing forms and degrees, on and off. To me it is a symptom or side effect of AvPD. It took me many many years to realise that AvPD was the root of the problem.

2. I believe I have AvPD as opposed to SA, as I can go to concerts and theatre on my on quite happily. And I have been known to go on holiday on my own. I can go about my daily duties quite well, even if there are crowds or I need to speak to strangers. HOWEVER, I can experience AvPD symptoms with someone, on a one to one basis...and may have known that person for years!

I am sensitive to criticism, feel inadequate and have low self esteem. This makes me want to withdraw from that situation. I won't want to put myself in a situations thay are new...regardless as to whether there is any social contact. This is entirely different to SA.

3. In my opinion there are many side effects/problems/symptoms generated by AvPD. The main one for me is crushing-soul-destroying anxiety. Negative self talk and catastrophising are others. Comparing and 'should-haves' too. All these things can lead to depression...and its no wonder really. However, I wouldn't say everyone with AvPD would have depression. I think there are many people on the site who seem to have accepted or dealt with their AvPD, and therefore don't suffer depressive episodes.

No, it's not inevitable to be sad with AvPD. It is a struggle and can take a lot of effort, treatment, strength, personal understanding, to avoid being sad.

But surely everyone...even those without AvPD can be sad, at least some of the time.

4. Pleasure in life? Yes, I do find it. But I think it depends on what's happening in my life, my mood, who I am with, how lucky I am...on a hundred different factors.

It also depends on your perspective...and on noticing the good things. But again, all that applies to non-AvPD people too.

AvPD can jade me, taint my view of the world and drag me down if I let it. It is important for me to have tactics and ways of countering those effects.

Very interesting thread, thanks for posting it.

I have a fairly new diagnosis, and many comorbid mental illnesses so my apologies if any of this melt into each other and something I mention isn't particular to AvPD

1-Do you experience depression frequently?
Before any of my newest diagnosis I was diagnosed with dysthymia (chronic depression over a long amount of time) and major depressive disorder, so I've experienced quite a bit of depression. A lot of it probably stemmed from my anxiety and my anxieties within my AvPD.

2-How do you experience AvPD, and why would you call it that as apposed to Severe SA, and depression?
I just went and had all new psychological evaluations done, with a licensed diagnostic psychiatrist in coordination with my therapist, because I turned 18 and my diagnosis were mostly based off of 2 tests I had taken at age 13 in the middle of a major depressive disorder (aka super false, and not updated very well/often by any of my psych team) The psychiatrist specifically told me that they had considered diagnosing me with SA but she decided it didn't fit because my anxieties were over all; too generalized, based too much in fears/paranoia, not specifically because of social situations. So a lot of this may have to do with my diagnosis with GAD, but I also feel that my AvPD is most persistent in how terrified and isolated it makes me feel even before entering a social situation.
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No matter how well I know somebody I will still think they hate me and want me to dissapear. I will always get scared that people are angry at me, and will make up fake situations of people hating me or me being inconvenient before I even enter a social situation. Over all the line between SA and AvPD is probably pretty blurry as far as I can tell because I know these can happen in SA people too.
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I have depression as well, but if I try hard to think about the motivations behind my depression I think I can see the line. When I am upset or hopeless because I; isolate myself, worry about rejection and criticism or imagine it, feel inferior, have aspects of agoraphobia (aka a lot of basic symptoms of AvPD) then this is being caused by AvPD and is not just depression. When I am feeling depressed because of a depressive episode, I am literally just spiraling into hopelessness and sadness with no solid reasons behind it. I may feel similar things like isolation or feelings of rejection, but when it's caused by depression I don't find any 'causes' behind it.
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It might help to focus less on symptoms and more on the causes or motivations to your symptoms, because there are so many overlaps.

3-Is this just an inevitable part of AvPD to be sad, and the rest of it???
I imagine that a lot of people who have AvPD could isolate themselves fairly well from society, and in theory if they isolated themselves and successfully found a job and a place to live while doing so then they could feel perfectly happy. Because it's a personality disorder, a lot of people consider it normal. If living with AvPD is your normal and nobody ever tells you otherwise you could live with it and experience a normal range of emotions outside of the crippling sadness from depression. I think a lot of people with AvPD experience depression and it's probably a likely outcome, but in no way do I think it's inevitable.

4-Do you find pleasure in life? What do you like to do?
I find pleasure in life. Sometimes it's blunted, and if I'm in a bad time my mind usually has selective memory and likes to forget or 'ghost over' any memories of pleasure. After around 5 years, I opened up my social circle to 2 people who are very close to me now and even though I struggle with them I have a lot of good moments with them. Sometimes I'll experience a honeymoon with a new psych medication where it will make me feel really happy and carefree for a while. Personally I've always liked reading (a very avoidant thing when you think about it actually, I enjoy it because I disconnect/avoid my life and just focus on a different world). I like cooking a lot because I like to create things and it's also something that pleases other people. I like watching tv for the same reason as reading books. Sometimes I also get small obsessions with random things like a certain show, band, movie, video game, drink, etc... and I'll just spend a few weeks dabbling in those.

This was really rambly, please excuse that haha

*Edit: I was reading through the wiki page on AvPD and they mentioned something that may help you on this. "Research suggests that people with avoidant personality disorder, in common with sufferers of chronic social anxiety disorder (also called social phobia), excessively monitor their own internal reactions when they are involved in social interaction. However, unlike social phobics they also excessively monitor the reactions of the people with whom they are interacting.[citation needed] The extreme tension created by this monitoring may account for the hesitant speech and taciturnity of many people with avoidant personality disorder; they are so preoccupied with monitoring themselves and others that producing fluent speech is difficult."*

1-Do you experience depression frequently?
Its the only state of being I know. Since my mid-teens, this has been my life, more or less, on a worsening trajectory, as time has gone by without my finding any real pleasure in living/life.

2-How do you experience AvPD, and why would you call it that as apposed to Severe SA, and depression?
1) All scenarios that involve me being with more than one person are avoided.
2) That every situation where other people will be around or likely to be around and importantly, in which I would be identified, selected, focused on, talked about, referred to, or highlighted in any shape or form, is avoided by me.
I have no issues with all the non-personal social situations, like being in a store, a shopping mall, walking in the street, etc. Its when I can be singled out or pointed to (or potentially have those things happen) that will trigger me to avoid those scenarios.

I don't have any problem with any one to one meetings with anyone. So long as its only one person.
As soon as a second person comes along or more than 2, then I start to shrink in my engaging and contribution to the situation, in increasing levels relative to the number of people.

Some things I've read say AvPD and SA are on a continuum. A lot of the symptoms overlap, especially if you throw in depressive symptoms. Or SA with introversion. I've just been very depressed for the past year, and on and off for most of my life. I've always had social anxiety. I'm just wondering what things I can hope to improve...in treating my depression.

I'm just struggling with this this depression, mood, lack of interest, and energy.

3-Is this just an inevitable part of AvPD to be sad, and the rest of it???
I believe I have AvPD and Social Anxiety/Phobia but none of these have been diagnosed.
Along my life long depression/Dysthymia mixed in, I don't know which one causes what. Its a bubbling, multi-symptom casserole, that is just there every second of every day, stewing in my head.
I might also have Anhedonia.

I think I want some human contact but I don't know how much or how deep. I seem to not have enough scope, latitude or tolerance for regular relationships.

4-Do you find pleasure in life? What do you like to do?
Not really. I will watch movies, documentaries and stand up comedians (and enjoy them), as well as music, but these are "temporary blips on the oscilloscope" of my state of mind and when they are over, they have no lasting effect on my state of mind. I simply return to my crap low level of existence.
I really don't like to do anything and so I don't. I was never much into doing when I was younger.
I often sleep to shorten the day.

I don't seem to have the loathing or the belief that I am unworthy of friendship, love, etc., that many on this forum say they do. I know I have some fine things about myself but I don't talk about them and never have. Its just not my way. For me, it seems its about being judged, criticized and rejected (or potentially) that keeps me away from people, not the feeling that I am inferior somehow.

1. Yes, i am pretty much depressed for most of my waking life. I suffer from depression and dissociative disorder (DP/DR). My DP/DR however is now under control and i'm doing well in terms of recovery.

2. I avoid people out of choice more than through a phobia. My misanthropy and general hatred for society and consumerism makes me deeply unhappy. I know i am not like most people, so i don't feel the need to communicate with most people. Social veneers do not interest me, small talk doesn't interest me, i will only generally hold a conversation with someone if it's something i find interesting.

3. I believe the two are well connected, they both feed each other.

4. Motorcycles are my life, i can be alone, i can be free. Most of all i like the clear head you get at speeds i won't mention online. It is however a temporary fix to what i fear may be a permanent problem in my case.