The Loneliness of AvPD

...[People with AvPD] will, therefore, frequently have difficulty beginning & maintaining relationships (Kantor), partly because they have difficulty trusting others & thus, are very reluctant to share their feelings or allow themselves to be vulnerable. As a protective measure against the humiliation & rejection, they may become avoidant of others.

On the other hand, avoidants may form relationships, even making an effort to meet new people. However, these people are kept at a distance. Therefore, this group of avoidants ís avoiding intimacy, rather than avoiding people altogether.

Individuals with AvPD are "lonely loners." They would like to be involved in relationships but cannot tolerate the feelings they get around other people. They feel unacceptable, incapable of being loved, and unable to change. Because they retreat from others in anticipation of rejection, they lead socially impoverished lives. They have immature and unrealistic expectations of relationships; they believe that they can have no imperfections if they are to be accepted and loved. Interpersonally, they are ill at ease, awkward and tense. They experience unremitting self-consciousness, self-contempt and anger toward others (Oldham, 1990, pp. 188-193).

Individuals with AvPD will develop intimacy with people who are experienced as safe. Nevertheless, they will often engage in triangular marital or quasi-marital relationships which provide intimacy while maintaining interpersonal distance. These individuals like to foster secret liaisons as a "fall-back" position in case the key relationship does not work out (Benjamin, 1983, pp. 307-308). As sexual partners and parents, people with AvPD appear self-involved and uncaring (Kantor, 1992, p. 109) as they preserve distance from others through defensive restraint and withdrawal. Even so, these individuals long for affection and fantasize about idealized relationships (DSM-IV, 1994, p. 663).

I've clipped these quotes from the AvPD resource thread, because they seem to pinpoint best my feelings tonight.

I am so damned lonely. There have been few times throughout my life thus far when this wasn't so.

I feel so disconnected. I want so much to have close friendships. I want people to know me, but I feel like no one really knows me. I think this must be the most painful, loneliest thing in the world: to feel that no one knows who you are.

I've often used fantasy to escape this pain of loneliness. I have tried to cut out the fantasy, which may have helped me socialize more (simply because I have tried to force myself to socialize rather than sit at home and fantasize about it).

I long so much to have someone I can sit with, to talk and to spill my guts. I have had a few friendships like that in my life, but I ended up removing myself from each friendship. I reject others before they can reject me.

I wonder if reading and thinking about how I am avoidant is helpful. Generally, Avoidants are advised to think less and do more. We can think ourself out of anything. Yet reading this information, and acknowledging that it describes me, somehow moves me. It gives me hope that I am understood, even if only by diagnostic information on a website.

I wish I wasn't so afraid of people rejecting me for being gay. I won't let anyone know me because of this fear.

Sometimes, I feel so disconnected I wonder how close I must really be to those homeless people yelling at people that aren't there. I feel like I am just on this side of crazy sometimes.

Even though I haven't had much success resolving these issues myself, allow me to at least try to help you.

Trence, suppose that not only you can be understood by "diagnostic information on a website" but also by real people if you take the effort to explain the condition to them, making use of the information you know describes you so well. You have seen a therapist in the past, right? He or she was able to understand you, or at least the parts you were diagnosed with (although that didn't include AvPD iirc). I have no doubt that you can make other people who have already shown an interest in you understand what it is like.
Your boyfriend would be the first on the list who I would try to explain about it. I know you're afraid that he'll reject you if he knows about your insecurities, but consider this: You have already shown some of your avoidant tendencies with respect to him once in a while, but even though he doesn't know your reasons for avoiding him for a period of time, he has not rejected you, right? So I would say that telling him about AvPD could only deepen his appreciation for you rather than end it outright. Knowing where your behaviour is coming from can only mitigate people's negative reactions to unsocial behaviours.

I believe you've mentioned now and again that you'd hate to be pitied. This is certainly a risk if you want people to know what you're about, including your mental imperfections. But it seems to me that if you want to prevent destroying more friendships in the future, it might actually help if those friends know why you are doing what you are doing. Making them aware of the situation allows them to confront you when they sense an avoidance pattern and reassure you that you will not be rejected. Yes, that does sound very much like the pity you so eagerly want to avoid, and from personal experience I know that it's unpleasant to see it that way. So don't. Look at it in another way. What are friends for if not to support each other, to help you when you need help. Allowing friends to know you is allowing them to support you when support is what you need.

I wonder if reading and thinking about how I am avoidant is helpful.

As you correctly keep pointing out to new arrivals, you have to know what your problem is before you can try to solve it.

I wish I wasn't so afraid of people rejecting me for being gay.

I'm afraid I can't help you much on this one. Even though I live in just about the most gay-friendly country in the world, I've only come out to my mother (and very recently at that).
The only advice I can offer is in the form of that horrible cliche: If your friends reject you for being gay, they weren't really friends to begin with. Knowing how difficult it is for people like us to make friends, I wouldn't blame you for considering this advice useless.

GG, thanks for the reply, it's so good to see you "around"! You've given me a lot to think about, thank you.

So I would say that telling him about AvPD could only deepen his appreciation for you rather than end it outright. Knowing where your behaviour is coming from can only mitigate people's negative reactions to unsocial behaviours.

I myself am fascinated by my own reluctance to share this part of me with my bf. It does feel like I am keeping up such a facade. I think part of what holds me back now is that so much time has passed where I have kept it to myself, that I think he will be angry I didn't tell him before. Does he really even know me? Is that fair?

Another rather large part of the reason why I don't feel able to tell my bf about my avoidance issues is that he has made a few remarks about 'crazy people'. When he made those remarks it was as if I sent a big wall all around me to ensure I never share this part of me with him. I don't know if he will be able to understand. What if it is too much for him? What if it becomes a burden for him? I don't want him to think he has to somehow make me un-avoidant. What if he decides it is his mission to make me less avoidant, and it freaks me out because of the pressure, and I get even worse, or he decides he can't deal with someone who has these issues.

I guess the crux of the problem, which permeates every aspect of my life, is am I willing to be authentic? Am I willing to be myself, in all my good points and all my weaknesses...? I have lived so much of my life as a facade, that to be real and vulnerable seems so foreign. I'm not sure if I am capable of it.

What are friends for if not to support each other, to help you when you need help. Allowing friends to know you is allowing them to support you when support is what you need.

I guess I haven't ever really known what a friend really is. Someone to support me when I need help? Why does even the thought of that prospect feel so foreign and, well - painful? Why does the idea of that sort of friendship make me feel like running away screaming, and yet paradoxically is what I've always wanted but haven't had?

The only advice I can offer is in the form of that horrible cliche: If your friends reject you for being gay, they weren't really friends to begin with. Knowing how difficult it is for people like us to make friends, I wouldn't blame you for considering this advice useless.

Your advice is far from useless, GG. It is terrificly helpful. Thank you again.

I have been around, but I've been hesitant about posting. I have this tendency to, whenever there's one thing going wrong in my life, to think that everything about me is wrong and that nobody has any use for what I have to say. That's why you haven't heared from me in a while. I was thinking about PMing you, Trence, because I know you would be able to pep talk me into "speaking up" again. But I didn't get around to it, or maybe I was even afraid you would find me weird for asking such a thing.
When I saw your post I remembered how much you seemed to appreciate my previous advice concerning your relationship, so I was a little more confident about responding. Now in your response you've managed to give me that reassurance I was looking for without me even having to ask. Thank you.

One thing I've always wondered about your boyfriend is, in all the time he has been with you (about six months now?) surely he must have noticed something about your insecurities? I'm guessing he isn't entirely clueless that you have some issues, he just doesn't know they have a name.
I wish I could give some stronger encouragement to talk to him about it, but I also have to keep in mind that I don't know your boyfriend, so I can't possibly say with any degree of confidence how he'll react. I can point out that so far he's still with you, and that this news may not be as much of a surprise to him as you think. In the end, it's you who has to judge whether or not to tell him. Unfortunately, since we avoidants tend to exaggerate the possible negative outcomes to the detriment of the positive, your judgement may be biased, but again I can't guarantee that everything will work out.

What I also forgot to mention in the previous post, is this: When I read your posts I don't see a weak or "nearly crazy" person. On the contrary, I see a very strong individual, someone willing to fight against a counter-productive self-image, someone trying his best to break free of the self-imposed bonds of anxiety, someone willing and able to face his own irrational thoughts and to change them for the better.

What are friends for if not to support each other, to help you when you need help. Allowing friends to know you is allowing them to support you when support is what you need.

I guess I haven't ever really known what a friend really is.

Nor I. But I read books, I watch TV, and that is what I've gathered about the subject. I'm sure there's some semblance of truth in it.

I'm currently in a situation opposite to what you're experiencing. I've recently come into close contact with two people through an internet forum. I've mentioned them once before. Contrary to your situation, this contact actually started when they learned of my problem, when we were still complete and utter strangers. They've graciously taken it upon themselves to help me a little on the path to improvement. What I'm now struggling with, and have been ever since this started, is whether this can truely be called friendship. Because of my lack of experience socializing and the focus of my attention on my AvPD, I have the sense that I'm talking about myself too much and paying too little attention to their lifes. It seems like a one way street to me, where the exchanges are all about what I have or have not done to improve my social skills. I feel like I'm very self-centred, which is not a good basis for friendship, I guess.

Someone to support me when I need help? Why does even the thought of that prospect feel so foreign and, well - painful? Why does the idea of that sort of friendship make me feel like running away screaming, and yet paradoxically is what I've always wanted but haven't had?

It feels foreign because it IS foreign to you, I should think. Painful and scary, probably because it would require you to make yourself vulnerable, something we as avoidants prefer not to do, because we expect that our vulnerability is going to be exploited sooner than it's going to be rewarded by closer and more caring relationships.

I guess the crux of the problem, which permeates every aspect of my life, is am I willing to be authentic?

Why did you start this thread? I sensed a feeling of dissatisfaction with your secretiveness in the original post. You seem to dislike hiding behind this facade you've built for yourself. So I'd like to turn the question around: Can you be happy projecting an image that is not the real you?


BTW, I was thinking about this when I typed the previous message, and this one as well: Is there a specific reason you don't capitalize your name? It looks like something one would do to diminish oneself. Or am I thinking too deeply about this

Thanks again GG. I'll reply to your post more later, I need to get to bed, but I wanted to reply to this first, because it gave me a chuckle:

Gentleman Geek wrote:BTW, I was thinking about this when I typed the previous message, and this one as well: Is there a specific reason you don't capitalize your name? It looks like something one would do to diminish oneself. Or am I thinking too deeply about this

I think there is truth in this observation, which is why it made me laugh. I didn't forego capitalization out of any conscious low self-imaging. But I think it's reflective of my ingrained safety mechanism of keeping a low profile, remaining as less noticeable as possible. So, good catch!

BTW, I think you have a lot to offer, so I encourage you to keep posting whenever you feel led to.

Gentleman Geek wrote:I was thinking about PMing you, Trence, because I know you would be able to pep talk me into "speaking up" again. But I didn't get around to it, or maybe I was even afraid you would find me weird for asking such a thing.

You can PM me anytime, don't think twice.

When I read your posts I don't see a weak or "nearly crazy" person. On the contrary, I see a very strong individual, someone willing to fight against a counter-productive self-image, someone trying his best to break free of the self-imposed bonds of anxiety, someone willing and able to face his own irrational thoughts and to change them for the better.

Really? Cool. If I really step back from myself, I can see the same thing. But I'm usually so lost in my head that it can be difficult to see. So thanks.

Because of my lack of experience socializing and the focus of my attention on my AvPD, I have the sense that I'm talking about myself too much and paying too little attention to their lifes. It seems like a one way street to me, where the exchanges are all about what I have or have not done to improve my social skills. I feel like I'm very self-centred, which is not a good basis for friendship, I guess.

I can understand that, I would probably have similar feelings again. I always feel like I need to cancel out the debt 100x if someone does something nice for me, as if I don't think I deserve someone being nice to me "for free", just because they want to. I bet your friends are enjoying helping you out though. Obviously they care about you. That's cool. But if you still feel self-centred, you can always let them know you appreciate them. Have you been able to meet any of them in real life (including the one that you 'like')?

Why did you start this thread? I sensed a feeling of dissatisfaction with your secretiveness in the original post. You seem to dislike hiding behind this facade you've built for yourself. So I'd like to turn the question around: Can you be happy projecting an image that is not the real you?

My answer is no, I cannot be happy projecting a facade, especially to those I care about. Because of logistical issues, I don't spend even close to a good amount of time with my bf, or even talking to him. There is a real lack of depth because of that, which I have been hiding behind (with much relief thus far) to support my avoidant disorder. I will see him soon, and spend some time with him. Hopefully I get the nerve to talk to him, at least a little, about my struggles.

And one other related thing that came up today: I think WAY too much. I mean, this is no big revelation to me, but I decided tonight that I just need to stop thinking. That sounds weird, but I think I need to set some boundaries around this for me, because my thinking just drags me so far down and feeds my avoidancy. So for the next 24 hrs, I am not going to allow myself to think about my shortcomings, my mistakes, past relationships, in fact, I am not going to allow myself to think about any past scenario that does not reflect positively on my future. This is gonna take discipline, but c'est la vie. I'm really gonna drive myself crazy if I don't reign my stinking thinking in a little.

BTW - did I tell ya it was good to see you, GG?

Obviously they care about you.

Apparently. Part of me still can't believe it, but they do.

But if you still feel self-centred, you can always let them know you appreciate them.

I have done that on occasion, yes. I'm also making an effort to express my interest in their lives.

Have you been able to meet any of them in real life (including the one that you 'like')?

Even though they are from the same forum, neither of the two I've formed a closer connection with is him. That crush has been subsiding a bit over the past weeks. He's a very irregular poster there, and I'm still not too talkative myself, so I haven't managed to attract his attention yet. And in addition, the more I read from him the more I get the impression that we're just too different to make anything work. But maybe that's an excuse I'm making up so I can sit by and do nothing.
Right now I'm content enough to have made two friends for the first time in over a decade. And yes, I have met one of them, twice. We had a great time. It was awkward at first, because I had to get used to associating those kind and caring e-mails to a real life flesh and blood person with the face of a complete stranger. He was more chatty than I, as expected. But we did eventually get along well, and the second time was a little easier. We've been trying to make arrangements for a get together with the three of us, which will probably happen next month.

I think WAY too much.

Yes, I have the same problem. Since I've come to the conclusion that my brain is my greatest asset, I feel obligated to use it a lot. But it does get in the way of communicating quickly and effectively. When I'm writing an e-mail or a post I tend to spend much much more time thinking about what to say and how than I do actually typing it. It still takes an inordinate amount of time for me to finish a message such as this one. Which is another reason I'm not that active a poster here or elsewhere.

BTW - did I tell ya it was good to see you, GG?

Yes you did, but I don't mind you saying it again, and again, and again, and ...

It's always good to see you too.

Gentleman Geek wrote:And yes, I have met one of them, twice. We had a great time.

That's so cool, GG, I'm quite happy for you. That must have been quite a feat for you... and it can only get easier, right? That's my experience... the more I meet with someone, the easier it gets, and the more comfortable I get.

I had lunch with a friend on Sunday. It was great fellowship, I really enjoyed myself. It is something I crave, like most AvPDers - human interaction, friendship - yet it's something I feel so inadequate about. After our lunch, we took a short walk towards the subway, where I was going to enter, and he was going to walk home. As soon as we got there, I felt an enormous amount of discomfort. I behaved as if I really wanted to get out of there fast, and I could tell that he could see that. He wanted to talk more about plans to hang out again... and even though that's really what I wanted, it's like something took over my body and I cut the conversation short and said goodbye, and left. He actually called out to me as I was (practically running) away, and said something about meeting up, and I said 'sure'. But after I left, I felt sort of stupid. Why did I feel the need to rush away all of a sudden? I think it was because I am conditioned to be terrified of rejection, so to run off is a bad coping mechanism in order to avoid the possibility that he might not want to hang out with me. Meanwhile, he was SAYING he wanted to hang out with me again! It's like I am programmed to do one thing, and I am trying to program myself to do something healthier, but the old program overrides the new one and I feel powerless over it. Ugh.

But, I am not being hard on myself. I realize that I am trying. I am doing my best. I am just frustrated that socializing is so difficult, but at least I am trying to make a difference, I am trying to change. Better late than never![/code]

It is something I crave, like most AvPDers - human interaction, friendship - yet it's something I feel so inadequate about.

Yes, same here. Even though they haven't given me any reason to, I'm constantly expecting those two new friends to grow disinterested and stop responding to my e-mails. That's also the reason I'm always wondering what's in it for them.

Though I must admit I haven't had the same experience you're describing of rushing away after a pleasant get together to avoid rejection. You can always call him if you want to make arrangements for another meeting, right?

Gentleman Geek wrote:Even though they haven't given me any reason to, I'm constantly expecting those two new friends to grow disinterested and stop responding to my e-mails. That's also the reason I'm always wondering what's in it for them.

My therapist called this sort of thinking "waiting for the other shoe to drop". I confess I think like this about almost everything. If something good is happening, at the same time I am enjoying it I am wondering when it's gonna end. I'm not quite sure how to stop thinking like this, or if perhaps most people think like this and it's just we worry about it more.

Though I must admit I haven't had the same experience you're describing of rushing away after a pleasant get together to avoid rejection. You can always call him if you want to make arrangements for another meeting, right?

Yeah, I could call him. I'm not this neurotic with everyone. With people I've known for some time, for instance, I don't feel the need to rush off after a fun get-together. But with this friend, I do. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he is quite younger than I am. I worry quite a bit that he doesn't really want to hang around someone so much older, and I also worry that he might think I have lecherous reasons for wanting to hang out with him (I don't). I think this is one of the key symptoms on AvPD - monitoring and trying to read reactions, read minds, to take the fine-toothed comb of my mind and find clues that support my irrational belief that he couldn't possibly want to hang out with me.

I think I've mentioned it before, but I really do have sort of a phobia with phone calls. I would much prefer to communicate by instant message or email, short and sweet, and arrange meetings that way and talk in person. I quite dislike talking on the phone. But unfortunately, it seems most people rather want to communicate by telephone. (Smiley added to remind myself not to take things so damned seriously.)