Hostility questions, etc.

Hi--I'm new here and trying to understand an APD friend. I hope you can give me some insight.

This guy gave me heavy attraction "signals" in class. The few times he sat next to me he was up and down multiple times which appeared to be from nervousness. Very nervous hellos initiated by him at every break eventually turned into nervous then not-so nervous talks. I initiated and drove him home a couple times. We eventually went out on a date after school was over. We both agreed we had a great time and wanted to do it again the following weekend. He never called when he said he would. I called the following week to see if he was okay and if need be to close this in a more appropriate way. The insults and denials began. I was not his type, he was not attracted to me, he was not "interested," in-class "signals" I misinterpreted (believe me I did not), after-class talks (with lots of personal disclosure/questions on his part) meant nothing to him, etc. The hostility I felt from his tone and remarks definitely hurt. Later in the conversation he still wanted to be friends and go out. Since, I've learned about APD and I was wondering if the insults were a defense mechanism for him to reject me before I rejected him (I called wanting to close this since he never called when he said he would). We were on the phone processing this stuff (I was impressed) for an hour and he didn't seem to want to get off. But he never copped to his part(s) in all this. I complimented him on a few things despite his hurtful insults and throughout I never insulted him. In the end we agreed to be friends. I strongly suspect he has APD (a psych friend suggested the thought from several fitting comments he made in the time I've known him) and have since read everything possible on the subject. I know hostility is a defense mechanism used by some. Given this scenario does anyone have any sense of how much future hostility I might expect to experience? I know everyone's different but I thought I might get a better sense asking the APD community. Any other thoughts? Does this story resonate? It's been four weeks (a long time I know) since I spoke to him and I'm trying to decide whether to be friends. In addition to the hostility issue, the other worrisome part is the dysfunctional aspect of his denials and not taking responsibility for his actions.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Let me start off by saying I can't really help you understand your friend any better. I've never heared of hostility as an avoidance mechanism before. Personally, I can't imagine treating a person kind and caring enough to become a close friend like that. I can see how typical avoidant behavior may be misinterpreted as disinterest or enimosity, but that's clearly not the case with you and your friend.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Hi Gentelmen Geek,

Thank you for your reply. I've had the fortune of having access to academic texts on AvPD at a local university. Unfortunately in some, according to these sources, hostility is used because they identify with their aggressor and reject others outright to deal with their own fear of rejection. It's very sad my friend is like this. He's been such a joy to know on other levels. I'm still trying to make sense of everything that happened here and would like to turn this into a positive situation for us both. But in experiencing his insults and denials the future road here feels like it could be very scary. So I continue to research and hold off contacting him. Thanks so much again for your response.

I have also read somewhere that AvPDs often have problems with hostility, but I cannot find the reference at the moment. It was one of the links listed in the info thread at the top of this forum, I believe. Anyway, I am with Ilse on this one.

As for myself, I have feelings of intense hostility towards people I do not know and I am expected to meet. Basically I imagine how they talk down to me/behave badly, i.e. reject me and fantasize about an angry response and how wrong they are and how right I am. It is quite bothersome, actually, because they usually turn out to be very nice and I spoiled my afternoon for nothing. Definitely an "I reject them, before they can reject me" -scenario.

How to deal with an AvPD who does behave rudely and hostile out loud and to your face, I have no idea. Several questions remain: Is he really doing this as a defence mechanism or is he just a jerk? What's the difference? Does it matter, i.e. is it worth it for you?

This attempt of reaching out to him may be a damsel-in-distress response. That's fine, however, it is not clear that you can help him at all or that he wants to be helped.

Just some thoughts,

Dragonfly.

Hi Dragonfly,

Thanks so much for your response. I appreciate hearing your thoughts and experiences.

One question I have is do you actually express your feelings of hostility or is it more of an internal dialogue you have with yourself in these situations? Sorry I wanted to make sure I got the context correct. Also, it sounds like you have regret/guilt(?) afterwards for having these thoughts/interactions. Is that true?

As for dealing with the insults, I told him he was very insulting and that he shouldn't talk to a woman like that. He said he's horrible with women, has little experience, and really didn't understand how his words were insulting. I tried to explain. He seemed(s) ready to want to learn (other comments from him have indicated this) which is why I'm considering reaching out to him.

Why the universe threw us together and put me through this is what I'm trying to grapple with. (I wasn't looking for attention especially from a younger guy). Attempts to reach out are attempts on my part to try and bring some sense to this situation and also perhaps to consider the idea of "giving back" not only to hopefully support him but to make some of my own life's sufferings and recovery meaningful. (I've been through a lot.)

Bottomline is, I've figured, there's no way of knowing how a friendship would turn out with him unless I spend more time with him. So if I decide to, it will be after having read alot, getting insight from others with AvPD, and just getting the feeling in my gut that the right thing to do is proceed.

Again, thank you for sharing your experiences. It's very helpful.


PS: Yes you are right, I checked, hostility is mentioned in the first info thread at the top of the forum "Avoidant Personality Disorder Resource Center" in the AvPD description article under "Behavioral Appearance," "Etiology & Development," and "Treatment."

Ilse wrote:One question I have is do you actually express your feelings of hostility or is it more of an internal dialogue you have with yourself in these situations? Sorry I wanted to make sure I got the context correct. Also, it sounds like you have regret/guilt(?) afterwards for having these thoughts/interactions. Is that true?

In my case it is mostly an internal dialogue, although my husband gets to hear some very nasty things about people sometimes due to imagined offences etc. Since I know how irrational it all is, I usually try to stay polite and levelheaded with others.

When I actually have a reason to be mad/hostile at another person (other than my husband), I will try to avoid direct confrontation and my agression may come out as sarcastic remarks. Most of the time, I will simply "avoid" (what else could it be) that person.

Yes, I do regret harbouring hostile feelings and fantasies about people that I have never met or that have not done anything. It is very useless. Apart from spoiling my own mood, it makes me guarded and overly cautious with people, making it harder to have a relationship or get to know them for real. In my husband's case, I actually do treat him according to my hostile fantasies sometimes so that he has to bear the consequences of things he did not do and would never do (very unfair). It got so far, that he asks me now what he did not do... That actually helped and it is less of a problem than in the past.

Ilse wrote:Attempts to reach out are attempts on my part to try and bring some sense to this situation and also perhaps to consider the idea of "giving back" not only to hopefully support him but to make some of my own life's sufferings and recovery meaningful. (I've been through a lot.)

I respect that. And you seem aware of the pitfalls, which is important.

Ilse wrote:Bottomline is, I've figured, there's no way of knowing how a friendship would turn out with him unless I spend more time with him. So if I decide to, it will be after having read alot, getting insight from others with AvPD, and just getting the feeling in my gut that the right thing to do is proceed.

That's is true. One can never predict these things. Hopefully, this thread will help you out.

Greetings,

Dragonfly