Differences between AvPD and Asperger's

There are some similarities between AvPD and Asperger's. What are some of the important differences? If you have or suspect you have AvPD, do you find it easy to relate to people with Asperger's?

DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria for AvPD: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disor ... dantpd.htm
ICD-10 criteria: http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-pe08.html

DSM-IV & Gillberg's criteria for Asperger's: http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm
ICD-10 description: http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-ch07.html



(Edited to add/change links)

I regard myself as having both, but after i look at the symptoms through the links you've provided, I see only one symptom of vPD that I don't think is a feature AS: "(2) is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked". I should mention that I believe AvPD should be regarded as a secondary symptom of Asperger's, and it is indeed reharded as such in some sources.

Kevin

Well first off Aspergers is a developmental disorder (disorder you are born with), and AVPD is a disorder which you gain through your life experience; or your perception of your life experiences. Hence, why it is called a personality disorder. I'm sure AVPD has a higher prevalance with people who have Aspergers (because Aspies have differences in communication based on how their brains function to put it in a concise way; and this can result in problems with relationships and maybe end up with them feeling inferior - AVPD).

Do I know the exact prevalance of people who have Aspergers who also have AVPD? No, I have no clue; maybe it's huge (The prevalance of AVPD among the general public is .5% to 1%, so maybe the prevalance rate of AVPD among aspies is 10% to 15%; or maybe lots of aspies tend to adapt to interpersonal relationships and the prevalance rate of AVPD among them is more like 1% to 2%? Maybe it depends largely on whether or not the aspie is diagnosed at an early age so he can put what he percieves as social failures in perspective.

Thank you for the responses.

Kevin, I think I understand how Asperger's could produce AvPD. But if AvPD is a secondary symptom of Asperger's, wouldn't that mean everyone with AvPD would have to have Asperger's? I don't have Asperger's, but I have to admit that traits of it run in my father's side of the family. I can think of a lot of scenarios in which a person could have AvPD without having Asperger's. Let me know if I misunderstood you.

Question: When people with Asperger's have trouble making/maintaining eye contact is it because they don't understand the social significance of it or because of a fear of people? Or maybe some combo of both in some cases? When I avoid looking people in the eye it is because I don't want to pick up on any signs of disapproval. I have no problem making eye contact when the other person is talking, but when I am talking I tend to look at everything besides the person I'm speaking to. I'm trying to change that but it still makes me feel icky and exposed. Meh. It's one symptom of social anxiety I can afford to keep around, I guess. Is it similar for people with Asperger's who have problems with eye contact? I understand sometimes it's staring too much rather than a lack of eye contact. Sorry to ask so many dumb questions. I just find this stuff really interesting.

My guess is that they don't make eye contact because they don't understand nonverbal communication - facial expressions.

Steve234"]My guess is that they don't make eye contact because they don't understand nonverbal communication - facial expressions

No, not for me I did understand it but I never realised that I did this until someone told me. I have to remind myself to keep eye contact but it is difficult if the conversation is complex (i.e. work stuff) and I suspect it is because my brain is trying to process information and think logically and for that reason (I don't really know why) I seem to have to focus on a neutral area. When I have forced myself to maintain eye contact my brain does seem to get flustered and the thought process is not as clear.

One thing I wondered about avpd and aspergers is what either think as they walk into a crowded room: is it, I am scared because they may not like me or is it I am scared because my brain/voice/processes may let me down? For me, it is the latter. I worry what people think after not before. I am more worried about myself and if I will be able to deliver. I can't say that I really care what people think about me only the effect that they may have on me. Not sure how to explain that properly but it is (I think) the significant difference between avpd and aspergers. I don't have any longing to be with other people and I can feel out of sync with very familiar people and there is no pattern to it which was why when I spoke with some people on this board I knew that the avpd wasn't really fitting everything that I experienced. Neither was it telling me why.

But I agree, it is complicated because there is so much overlap in relation to the social aspects.

ShadowTerra wrote:Kevin, I think I understand how Asperger's could produce AvPD. But if AvPD is a secondary symptom of Asperger's, wouldn't that mean everyone with AvPD would have to have Asperger's? I don't have Asperger's, but I have to admit that traits of it run in my father's side of the family. I can think of a lot of scenarios in which a person could have AvPD without having Asperger's. Let me know if I misunderstood you.

Question: When people with Asperger's have trouble making/maintaining eye contact is it because they don't understand the social significance of it or because of a fear of people? Or maybe some combo of both in some cases?

In response to the 'eye contact' question, i'm going along with what our good friend Steve234 says, but also what topaz says. What I mean is: It's a bit of both. I cannot really expand on it much more, mostly because i'm in a terrible mood right now.

In response to your first question (above), it isn't the case that everyone with AvPD has to have Asperger's. The reverse is also true, in that you don't have to have AvPD if you have AS. It isn't listed as an official symptom of it, but is just mentioned as a possible secondary (or 'comorbid') syndrome.

Edit: As I read through the replies again, I'm siding more with what topaz says. It sounds exactly like my own situation, whereby I have to consciously remember to look into a person's eyes when talking to them. I know the social skills by now, but it's as if my natural tendency is to drift away and not listen.

Chucky wrote:Edit: As I read through the replies again, I'm siding more with what topaz says. It sounds exactly like my own situation, whereby I have to consciously remember to look into a person's eyes when talking to them. I know the social skills by now, but it's as if my natural tendency is to drift away and not listen.

Do you stop making eye contact when you're talking with people? It's a conscious thing for me too, as I'd easier just avoid eye contact. But, the "make eye contact!" thought keeps looping/persisting, so I wind up going to the other extreme and nearly staring into their eyes. It seems to make others uncomfortable, like I'm a dominant figure (if only they knew the real me ), and they periodically avoid eye contact. There's a natural balance there, no?

There is a natural balance - yeh - but i'll be damned if I ever get it right. What I do is exactly as you've described. I go from thinking I amen't looking in their eyes enough to thinking that I'm looking too much. I can't get it right, ever. I know for a fact that I sometimes seem as if Im' disinterested, because my ex used to give out hell to me for it.

Kevin

Yes, it is hard to get the balance right. I stare a lot anyway and was always told off for staring when I was a child.

Sorry to hear you are unhappy tonight Chucky