i think my dh is borderline, but not sure.

i think my husband is borderline based on hours of reading and research, but i know he needs a formal evaluation. i did ask him to go see a physician and he agreed, but i can tell it will be like pulling teeth.

if anyone can give me an opinion, and also tools to help with the conflicts, please let me know. here are things he displays:

-he has said from the beginning he has felt abandoned since his dad left his family when he was a child.
-impulsivity (minor to major, he once bought multiple cars in one day without even speaking to me about it)
-mood swings
-tendency to fly off the handle. sometimes its over big things, sometimes over absolutely nothing and i find myself saying over and over, 'is there something really wrong besides this to make you so upset?' and at times he is extremely patient when i expect a fit
-very high expectation of anyone around him. if they fail what he feels is expected, he has no problem cutting them out of his life. I constantly feel as if I don't measure up.
-arguments are very heated, he is very controlling of the situation, refuses a time out, and over and over says that i dont take responsibility for anything regardless
-during all arguments tends to bring up EVERYTHING from the past and acts as if he is just as upset about every single one as he was when it happened, but does the next day i am the love of his life, etc, etc.
-profoundly embellishes past events to prove that he is right, even down to actually making stories up that he knows we both know never happened
-complete swing from one opinion to the other, without notice, and has no patience when asked to explain why he feels so completely different (religion, friendship issues, etc)
-history of very short personal relationships. he gets very close to people very fast, but will cut them out of his life very fast

He is a very intelligent, very productive and loving man. He has a very strong commitment to me and our children and he works extremly hard. He has not been affected negatively as far as his work ethic, commitment to marriage, etc. But when conflicts arise it is so difficult to deal with because I cannot win or resolve the situation.

Hi, patricianyc! You could show him some info on this disorder and tell him about this forum as well. You could go with him to see the doctor and I guess you could have some counselling together as well.
It can sometimes feel like a disorder is taking you over and it's not you that's doing certain things, so it will help him if you remind him of how important your family is and that he's fighting to get better for you. If you're having a conflict, it might be better to just leave him alone until he stops being angry and then have a calm conversation with him about his reaction and explain to him why you acted that way. Maybe it'd be better for you to tell him that that is how you will react during a fight, so he won't be too suprised when you leave the room or something.

Thanks for your reply! I like your ideas. He is listening to me, however he alternates between agreeing with me and telling me I'm trying to make him think he's crazy. I have never said I think he has a psychiatric problem. It's hard because one minute we will have a conversation where he says he wants to get help and quit the behavior, and then several hours later he will say his reactions are all due to what I say or do. He has contacted a dr. and has an appt. I have no idea if I should go and voice my opinion with him because I don't want him to think I'm trying to make him look crazy. However I'm not sure if he will be totally honest. He does acknowledge that he has a good deal of pain from his childhood and knows he needs to deal with it.

Hello, Patricia. It is a good thing that your husband has agreed to go to a therapist. I suggest that you consider going along on at least the first meeting and then meeting with him in couples counseling, which is in addition to his private counseling. If you do that, however, the therapist will insist that you also have to go to private sessions with him. That is, the therapist cannot ethically see you both in couples sessions and only see him privately because it makes it impossible for the therapist to have a balanced view of both of you.

Another problem with the two of you getting private sessions and couples counseling from the same therapist is that there is a strong chance you will never be told his true diagnosis if he is in fact BPD. I took my ex to six different therapists over 15 years (spending over $200,000) and never once heard the term BPD. Yet, when I started reading about it, I found that the classic BPD books read like the story of her life and she has all nine BPD traits very strongly.

One reason for not being told is that BPDs are great actors and can snow the less experienced therapists. Another is that, because insurance companies rarely will cover BPD, the therapists use another term -- PTSD seems to be the popular proxy term for this decade. A third reason is that, if the BPD sufferer is high functioning as your BF appears to be, telling him that he has BPD may be the kiss of death for therapy. He likely will leave therapy. Whether he is able to make any real progress in therapy without knowing he has BPD seems to be a contentious issue. I have read that some therapists will tell them and others will not until they are far along in recovery.

Finally, if you do not attend at least some of the sessions with him, you will never know if he is making a real effort to improve. It is highly unlikely that, absent your insistence on progress as one of your boundary conditions, he will make a real effort to improve because it is painful to do so.

He could have borderline, narcissistic and/or bipolar too (buying three cars in one day sounds like it could be a manic spending spree). He actually sounds to me as if he is a little of all three. Of course, I'm not the expert. Does he have any psychiatric problems on either side of his family tree? That could be a clue as to what is wrong.

I'm not sure what a borderline man is like as I have only known borderline women. I can think of one from long ago who probably had borderline along with other things and he got pretty violent when he was upset.

I take huge issue with DowntownDC. Many people are THRILLED to find out they are borderline and are relieved to know why they have trouble with their emotions and getting along with people. Those are the ones who do well in therapy. I don't think anyone should baby or monitor the patient. You'll know if he's doing well because he'll be different and he'll probably want to talk about it. At least, that's how it was for me. I'm in a woman's group, and many of us are borderline. None of us are offended by the lable and we are all trying to learn skills to get better. I know I have gotten better. I've been married twice and I doubt my second hub would even believe I have borderline if he read a list of the symptoms. There is no drama in our house. First hub, well, he saw. Lastly, on this issue, I can't speak for all borderlines, but I never tried to put on any act for a therapist. I just wanted help. In fact, I would tell the therapist everything and cry and ask why I'm such a "bad" person and why I can't control myself. I WANTED to know what was wrong. Many borderlines do. There is no one-size-fits-all. You probably know where hub fits in.

The most effective therapy for Borderline is not talking to a therapist. That doesn't teach the borderline new skills, which they desperately need. We need to learn how to regulate our all-over-the-place emotions and how to think with logic rather than emotions. And, of course, we can feel happy one minute and angry the next (with me meds helped me A LOT, then the CBT and DBT therapy could work better for me).

If he drinks or abuses substances, this will also make him worse.

I would think a Psychologist would be better than a plain therapist for diagnosis. As for treatment...again...refer to above.

Good luck with hub, and don't allow him to abuse you even if you love him.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. He does not abuse anything, except maybe food at times. I feel like he sincerely wants to get some help, but its the intermittent time periods where he blames me for everything when I can't figure out what to say or do. Once he gets started its not just one or two things, he will say I do nothing right; he will say I have never been there for him, no one cares about or appreciates him, he is only here to work, and everybody takes him for granted. No matter what I remind him of as far as how we have shown him appreciation; he will not acknowledge it. He has said many, many times that our entire marriage is solely based on my needs and he has been neglected. That is not true, and I get really frustrated trying to understand why he says it, let alone try to argue it. It's exhausting.

I take huge issue with DowntownDC. Many people are THRILLED to find out they are borderline and are relieved to know why they have trouble with their emotions and getting along with people. Those are the ones who do well in therapy.

Alphabet, I suspect that we agree on this issue and seem to disagree only because I did such a poor job of explaining my view. I certainly would agree that all the BPD sufferers on this forum likely were thrilled to find out that the source of their pain is BPD. And I also would agree that their ability to be so self aware is a key to their doing so well in therapy. Indeed, it is both their self awareness and their commitment to recovery that explains why they came to this forum.

In the general population of BPD sufferers, however, I would be surprised if more than 1 in 100 have acknowledged to themselves -- much less anyone else -- that they have BPD. No, I haven't seen any statistics on it. I say this largely based on what I have been reading for the past three years at several sites devoted to nonBPDs, where the nons tell their stories. Their near-universal experience seems to be that their BPD spouses/lovers refuse to believe that they suffer from the disorder. Moreover, when they are told, they project it back onto the nonBPD. Hence, the usual advice to the newbie nons on those forums is that they should not tell the spouse because it will be provocative and won't be believed.

Obtaining any accurate statistics on this likely is impossible because it is so common for BPDs -- especially those who are high functioning -- to reject treatment or, in the unlikely event that they go at the spouse's insistence, to undermine treatment and then quit before a diagnosis can be made. Therapist Shari Schreiber states, for example, that "borderlines can make tangible progress with solid therapeutic help, but you may have a better shot at flying to the moon strapped to a banana, than keeping them in treatment long enough, to accomplish any real growth or healing. Don't forget--they're terrified of attaching, and relying on anyone for their care."

The most effective therapy for Borderline is not talking to a therapist ... I would think a Psychologist would be better than a plain therapist for diagnosis.

I agree, Alphabet. I had recommended that the husband see a "therapist" because I think of CBT and DBT therapy as being provided by a therapist. Moreover, I use that term to refer to anyone licensed to provide therapy, a group that includes psychologists but excludes most psychiatrists because they seem to spend most of their time writing prescriptions. Of course, I may be mistaken. My point is not that I am using these terms correctly but, rather, that I agree with you wholeheartedly on this.

Hey, Downtown

Thanks for your feedback.

I agree that most borderlines probably would reject help and get very huffy if it were suggested they have a personality disorder. Sadly, this is often the case with any psychiatric problem. In the case of bipolar disorder, which I was first diagnosed with probably because nobody knew much about borderline back then, 60% of bipolars refuse to take their medication. Considering that the only way to control bipolar is with the proper meds, that's a lot of people who give up. Many won't go for help either and just stay crazy, driving everyone else crazy...lol. I have no doubt that the non's you talk to on other boards have had horrible experiences with borderlines. If they are in denial or substance abusing (very common) there is really no hope. That's why I urge people dealing with borderlines who are not in treatment to get out. It's not really something the person can control without being taught how. We just don't "get" things others automatically get. And our emotional dysregulation is severe and a constant battle, but there are many coping skills to help out.

Recent strides have been made in treating borderline. Whole practices are devoted to it (some really masochistic therapists, ya think?) I'm sorry some borderline broke your heart. I hope there is nobody in my past who feels the same about me. Fortunately, I was never promiscuous...and the problems with my first husband were partly him too and we have made amends and are friends (a real trick for a borderline ). But in between my divorce from hub #1 and my marriage to #2, I went into borderline panic mode and couldn't be without a man, and I didn't really care about all of them in the right way. Remarkably, there really wasn't all that much sex. I just wanted somebody to care for me and I needed three at one time just in case two dropped out of the picture. Sad, huh? I was not aware I had borderline at the time nor had I been in the right kind of therapy.

To the poster with the husband: I would completely stop trying to reason with a borderline when he is stuck in a particular mode of illogic. It doesn't work. I found the best thing anyone could do for me when I was blabbing on and on about nonsense was for my partner to nod and pretend to listen...lol. When your hub says "Nobody cares about me. All I am is the person who works" etc. he is doing what I call THINKING with his EMOTIONS. He FEELS like nobody cares about him (a common way for an untreated borderline to feel) so it is his reality, even though it's ridiculous. He FEELS like he's just a meal ticket. It's not reality. You DON'T feel that way about him. But he is again thinking with his emotions, not his logic. It will blow over and he'll change back again. You probably know what I mean. And, yeah, the roller coaster sucks both for the person and his loved ones. But I know why he's saying those untrue things when he says them. He may also get stuck in a negative mode where no matter w hat you say to comfort him, like a child he refutes you and tells you why he's worthless and unlovable and you don't really appreciate him. I'd leave him alone and just listen at times like that. If he allows it, I'd leave the room and give him a chance to settle down.

Remember that borderline is an emotional dysregulation disorder so we sometimes don't make sense. Even with treatment, I have my days...lol. Thing is, I'm very careful now to be loving to hub and hug and say, "I know I'm going to sound very silly, but this is bothering me and I need you to reassure me." No drama anymore. He's good about doing it and it passes fast and happens much less often. Borderline is a lifelong struggle, but if your hub is committed to improving, he can. It's NOT a good sign if he can't hear what he has. You can gain so much by reading about your own disorder. It's both helpful and comforting. That may sound weird, but there's something soothing about knowing why you tend to get "out there."

Thank you to you both! I so appreciate the intellegent insight. His appointment was tomorrow am, but he just informed me that he cancelled because of a business conflict. I do not want to push but not really sure what to say. He is very sensitive if I bring this subject up. Can you help me understand why he says what he says when he is in the "mode"? I just have no idea how to rationalize with him when he is doing that. It's as if he is literally making stories up and I can't get him to see what he's doing.

The best I can describe it is that his emotional dysregulation threw him into a depressed, angry mood. When you are depressed, your outlook is distorted to the negative. He feels, at the moment, that he is not appreciated, even though he is and even though you are logically making your case to him. Logic isn't a part of this. He is thinking, "I feel bad and unappreciated and like nobody wants me for anything but my paycheck...therefore if I THINK so, it MUST be true." This is a thinking distortion. Many times our emotions don't equal the truth, especially in borderlines, but borderlines can really milk out their misery if they fall into a temporary depression. And it's hard to climb out once we're stuck in "everyone hates me" mode. It's all about a person who istrying to make a logical statement based on illogical emotions, which borderlines fight all the time. It is best not to throw fuel on the fire and to ignore it unless he is the type who will follow you around and not leave you alone. Under THOSE conditions, I'd listen and mutter noises of sympathy until the spat of "I'm not wanted" dies down.

It is not a good sign that he cancelled the appointment unless he rescheduled it. My guess is that, like everything else, he wants help one minute and the next minutes thinks, "I don't need help." Again, this is the emotional dysregulation of borderline. It's like bipolar intensified. Bipolars can have days, months, weeks or years as manic or depressed. Borderline change their mood minute to minute. I found meds REALLY helped that for me. And I was never ever ambivalent about wanting help. By age six I knew I was different. By age thirteen I was trying to read about what was wrong with me. Unfortunately, your hub is not that interested in changing ALL THE TIME. He has moments where he wants to change and other moments where he thinks he is just fine.

You may want to read "Walking on Eggshells" (I can't think of the author off the top of my head). If you're interested in what is REALLY wrong and how to understand it better than I can explain, read the Skills Training Manuael for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder by Marsha M. Linehan. Linehan created the most successful model to date for treating BPD, and she is also good at explaining WHY. The methods are great. I use them all the time.

You shouldn't have to worry about asking your hub a simple question, however that is the reality of BPD.