Sadistic superego

Does it bother you? Do you even feel its presence?

In my experience, the narcissist's superego torments in a manner that eats away at you slowly rather than looks to deliver the killer blow. I sometimes self-medicate with soft drugs (cannabis) and once or twice when I have smoked too much and a rise in anxiety ensues I have found myself almost pleading with my superego to let me enjoy myself and not suffer as the drug and the superego conspire to create a negative loop of thoughts in my head. Also, some of the mild OCD rituals I occasionally engage in are most definitely set up by the self-doubt brought up by the sadistic superego. Have you read the article Sam Vaknin wrote about the sadistic superego? Do you feel it as strongly as he describes it or do you think that he is being overly dramatic for the sake of making up for his otherwise mediocre penmanship?

It's always there. I call it my dark passenger, a line that I stole from Dexter, because it feels like it's a demon riding along with me that won't let me enjoy life. Funny that it's not present in my dreams. Sometimes when I have an especially lucid dream that feels real, I'll wake up and realize that I was completely free in that dream, something that I don't experience in real life. My superego has changed its demands over the course of my life based on the external factors that are influencing me and motivating me. One of the reasons that I generally drink when I do something social is that the alcohol will blunt the anxiety and defenses of my superego. My superego is often self-defeating. It puts up defenses that attempt to prevent me from achieving intimacy with other people, which in turn often causes me to lose supply, so it's interesting how all the components of the NPD's mind don't always line up rationally and are often at war with one another.

I agree with Sam's point on the SuperEgo. When I smoke too much pot I usually end up getting huge anxiety attacks and Its always my masochistic SEGO wanting to me to beat myself up. I honestly just wish it let me calm down and enjoy myself but being a NPD maybe that's asking for too much?

narcula wrote:Have you read the article Sam Vaknin wrote about the sadistic superego?

No, can't say as I have. If I do happen to run across it, I hope that it is printed on soft paper that it might be put to good use the next time I run out of papier hygiénique.

I think the sadistic superego is right and wrong at the same time. It is right because it tells you how you should ideally behave for your age and wrong because ignores the fact that life is hard and if the child doesnt receive proper emotional support, it will be simply unable to act ob it. This is why the false self comes in, to try to match it somehow. But of course.emotions are there for a reason.

And once emotions are shut, there is no limit --> grandiosity, lack of empathy

I think the sadistic superego is right and wrong at the same time. It is right because it tells you how you should ideally behave for your age and wrong because ignores the fact that life is hard and if the child doesnt receive proper emotional support, it will be simply unable to act ob it. This is why the false self comes in, to try to match it somehow.

This is smart.

I have a hard time understanding how the sadistic superego of the pwNPD differs from the negative self talk of other people?Again, is this on the same continuum or radically different?

Would somebody care to provide an example? Thanks.

Après L Orage wrote:I have a hard time understanding how the sadistic superego of the pwNPD differs from the negative self talk of other people?

It seems like it's radically different due to the grandiosity/functionality/maturity gap between the TS and FS. It is like is like a self-fulfilling condition. It is created by something in early childhood, and exits to deny what happened in childhood -- and constantly reenacts it. It's like an inner version of the outward push/pull. It's the extremes, being someone we're not while pushing to be who we couldn't be.

I don't know how it compares to normal people's negative self talk. I assume it's the same thing turned pathological. A continuum. For me, it feels like a part of my conscience broke off and became part of my personality. This leads to a judgemental/critical personality, and the inner application of it. But, also a less-than-functional conscience because a part of it is not there (or redirected to filling a personality role). That contributes to bad judgement, over-optimism. I could be extremely uncritical at times. It's like the 4yo conscience is all that exists, and the adult conscience developed in the false self.

I think what makes it different than normal's negative self-talk is that it's a deformity, not just bad habits, "being too hard on yourself."

Many Ns have mentioned a noise or vibe, something inside which is like a temptation to day dream, but it kind of sets the tone of the day dream. It feeds it with content. I call it the "Presence" and it's an attractive nuisance to my FS. The process between the two I've begun to call the "Narrative." Its persistent, historical existence I call the "Confabulation." Vaknin uses these last two terms. But, I think he uses them interchangeably. I sensed two unique things and labeled them my own way using existing terms (in case it sounds confusing.).

In the past month I've been concluding the Presence is the fractured memory of the 4yo TS. It becomes a shared part of the FS. A contributor to it.

The only reason I mentioned that detail is that it could explain how the hyper-critic Parent-part of the FS is different from normals. It's a lack of balance, a lack of integration. It's a reaction to something. Apparently something in the 4yo's memories which became either detatched, or not-forgotten (but unrecallable).

Understood, negative self talk is still integrated, while sadistic superego not so much. Thanks.

Could still be a kind of continuum, from negative self talk to sadistic superego, to hearing voices...?

Après L Orage wrote:Understood, negative self talk is still integrated, while sadistic superego not so much. Thanks.

Could still be a kind of continuum, from negative self talk to sadistic superego, to hearing voices...?

Self-talk is a function apparent to consciousness, mostly created by habit based on unconcsious mental structure.
Super-ego is such a structure hidden from consciousness.
Voices are an outcome of the self partially disintegrating, so a psychotic symptom.

Sadistic super-ego can have two meanings

a) super-ego makes you feel good when you do bad stuff
b) super-ego connects images / behaviors that are marked as "bad" with extreme guilt and anxiety

Another aspect of the idea of super-ego sadism is the structural quality.
A super-ego which is formed in Nons is usually way less sadistic because it has a complex, diverse structure incorporating complex ideas and so distributing the "energy" in such a way that the impact of actions is not so disturbing. In PD patients the super-ego is less complex and based on very early stuff, sometimes partial objects of people, mixing up of those parts, own projections, wishes, anger, which in connection with the early absence of a clear distinction between subject and object leads not only to a lot of issues but also makes the reactions of such socalled super-ego precursers life-and-death reactions; for example you want to stand up for your rights in a bakery and tell the baker you want bread X not Y but you accept bread Y because it scares you to death etc.

lilo wrote:

narcula wrote:Have you read the article Sam Vaknin wrote about the sadistic superego?

No, can't say as I have. If I do happen to run across it, I hope that it is printed on soft paper that it might be put to good use the next time I run out of papier hygiénique.

I'm sorry but this made me spew my coffee all over my keyboard. And I like Sam Vaknin.
He doesn't seem to be very popular around here, I've noticed.