Being an outsider

All things being equal, which would get more attention: A girl in a Cannibal Corpse hoodie and baggy jeans or the done-up chick with basically nothing on?

...yes, there's a band called Cannibal Corpse. I didn't make that up, unfortunately.

Anyway, my point is, when you go around dolled-up, it acts as a potentiate* for attention you would not normally receive. Indeed, you can still avoid people no matter what you wear, but whenever you *are* around them, well... y'know.

There's a difference between making an effort and looking plastic, stupid, dolled-up, half-naked, attention-seeking, etc. I'm a bit confused as to where these assumptions are coming from (maybe because you're men?). I'm talking about classy, well-groomed, color coordinated, etc... More like office-wear than club-wear. Though a few years ago, I'd definitely prefer wearing a Cannibal Corpse shirt (yes, I know the band).

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to care about their looks, and I couldn't care less about how others choose to dress. It's just my personal preference. Dressing weird/sloppy started feeling like a bigger disadvantage and like literally wearing my emotions/weaknesses for others to see, so it didn't make sense for me, personally, to keep doing that. That's all.

I think facial expressions are kinda dubious, though. I don't doubt the validity of your own experience or anything, but mine, as a dude, has shown me that a lot of guys have a very limited conscience when they talk to or approach women. They obviously aren't to the extent of being crazy, haha, but annoying, yeah, *that* I could see....

Well, I haven't done statistics on it, so I guess I can't be sure. It's just my impression, but maybe it's just something I'm imagining.

shailene wrote:There's a difference between making an effort and looking plastic, stupid, dolled-up, half-naked, attention-seeking, etc. I'm a bit confused as to where these assumptions are coming from

Those schizoid guys and their 'rich internal life' .

shailene wrote:
There's a difference between making an effort and looking plastic, stupid, dolled-up, half-naked, attention-seeking, etc. I'm a bit confused as to where these assumptions are coming from (maybe because you're men?). I'm talking about classy, well-groomed, color coordinated, etc... More like office-wear than club-wear. Though a few years ago, I'd definitely prefer wearing a Cannibal Corpse shirt (yes, I know the band).

I disagree, since it's still all about taking the time and effort to maintain something you know other people think is important and will judge you on.

shailene wrote: I'm not trying to convince anyone else to care about their looks, and I couldn't care less about how others choose to dress. It's just my personal preference. Dressing weird/sloppy started feeling like a bigger disadvantage and like literally wearing my emotions/weaknesses for others to see, so it didn't make sense for me, personally, to keep doing that. That's all.

It always confuses me when people get all defensive when I'm just asking questions. It's fine; I'm not accusing you of anything. I might not understand it, but frankly, I couldn't care less, even if you went around in a Thor costume or something.

... actually, a Thor costume would be amusing. Especially if it comes with a novelty-sized hammer.

I disagree, since it's still all about taking the time and effort to maintain something you know other people think is important and will judge you on.

I guess that's just my vice then. I'm not sure what else to say. I'm not even arguing here, I agree that it's silly. I wish I didn't care, and I don't think others should if the inherently don't, but unfortunately I do.

It always confuses me when people get all defensive when I'm just asking questions. It's fine; I'm not accusing you of anything. I might not understand it, but frankly, I couldn't care less, even if you went around in a Thor costume or something.

... actually, a Thor costume would be amusing. Especially if it comes with a novelty-sized hammer.

I don't mean to be defensive, and I don't mind answering questions at all. I was just trying to eliminate whatever confusion I caused, and I was a bit frustrated that I didn't do a very good job at it.

i was always an outsider. When I got to hoghschool i tried to assimilate into the popular group, then I tried to assimilate into the burnout delinquent group, then I changed schools and dated a few girls in the nerd group then at the end of grade 11 i stayed in the library and just read.

Hmmm I was never an actual outsider but I usually felt like I am not part of any group at all.
In school I could join mostly any group (as in standing close to each other). Nobody seemed to mind my pressence. But it seemed like nobody cared if I wasn't there either.
To describe it, it was like being a ghost or something.

This feeling holds on till today and most of the time when I am with other people I feel like I am just some kind of guest there but never really part of any group.

SalsaShark wrote:All things being equal, which would get more attention: A girl in a Cannibal Corpse hoodie and baggy jeans or the done-up chick with basically nothing on?

Why do you assume the Cannibal Corpse girl would receive less or no attention? Do you not think, in addition to flirtation from men who don't care what she's wearing / also maybe like Cannibal Corpse and want to find their manic pixie soul mate, she'd also receive other kinds of undesirable attention and stereotyping?

EtherealStarlight wrote:or, are there some groups that you're able to genuinely feel a part of and like you're really a part of it rather than an outsider?

I can sometimes act as part of a group, but it never becomes part of my identity. If I ever become part of the identity of the group, then the group is probably in trouble. I can cease to be part of it at any moment. Where I am (inside, outside) is a secondary detail. Where I can be five minutes from now is what matters to me.

Being part of a group of people isn't important to me. Then again, I wouldn't like the feeling of being intentionally shut outside a group either if I didn't understand why.