Question: Cause of pedophillia?

Hi everyone, I am a non-paraphiliac individual who would like to understand the cause of paraphilias such as pedophilia, hebephilia or necrophilia. It seems like reading through the forums that it is more of something you are born with than something that develops during childhood. I've looked at this post: paraphilias/topic97017-20.html but it still doesn't satisfy me . I would like some first hand experiences rather than scientific evidence.

Before I go into my boring lecture on my findings I would like to ask victims a few questions:
1) What age did you first have pedophiliac thoughts?
2) (May trigger) What are the stages of developing pedophilia? What rate in years or months did it develop?
3) (May trigger) Did puberty escalate the condition? Were the thoughts before puberty more of a sexual nature or more platonic? I assume that it does because a rise in testosterone increases libido while female pedophiliacs are less likely to commit sex crimes.
4) (May trigger) Do attracted to children in a symbolic way (purity and innocence) or is it mostly physical?
5) Are you comorbid (also are affected by) any personality, cognitive and dissociative disorders?

You don't have to read section .
I understand that there is a lot of guilt and social stigmatism for individuals who suffer from the disorder. Unfortunately we nons tend to get very biased and label victims of the disorder as subhuman and I believe our legal system persecutes people who have a lax view on the disorder, as in the case of John Wooden whose career as a coach was tainted by Jerry Sandusky. I cannot understand why it is alright with people with personality disorders to be proud of their disorder and gain sympathy for it while people with paraphiliacs do not get this option. However as a conservative and a yuppie I find my real self having feelings of disgust which I will try to rationalize away with research.

I would like to understand more on the disorder but there are barely an scholarly articles on the subject. According to Freund, Watson and Dickey (1990), pedophiliac offenders who commit pedophiliac crimes report higher levels of child abuse. However I do not believe that child abuse is the cause of pedophilia and it only makes does having pedophiliac or POCD more likely to engage in sex crimes.

As a victim of mild child abuse I see how I could have developed the disorder through the lack of trust in adults. Beyer and Beasley (2003) states that it is possible for a fully mature adult to become a regressed pedophiliac through stress of marriage, making them turn to their children for emotional comfort. This supports the nurture side of pedophilia which states that environmental factors such as traumatic child events and learned behavior causes pedophilia.

Then there is the nature and genetic side of pedophilia. Since politically correct scientists will not fund medical pedophilia research there is a lack of information on brain scans and the genetics of pedophiliacs. I believe that the cause of pedophilia is a genetic mutation in one of the chromosomes responsible for dopamine production. It is found that pedophiliac offenders but not pedophiliacs have lower dopamine production in their brains.

Another thing I noticed was that our social conditioning classifies the attraction of age groups as pedophiles (child-13), hebophiles (14-17) and normal people (21-35). Society has told us nons to prefer members at their physical peak and to not feel guilty when we find older age groups less attractive. Pedo and hebophiles prefer members before their physical peak. There are also guys who like cougars but everyone thinks they're weird . Social conditioning is strong regardless of child abuse so I believe pedophiliacs are lacking something biologically and the problem isn't nurture.

Hello! You are not the only one who wonders that. Let's see if I can try to explain my point of views for your questions...

1) When I was 14 years old. That's when I started noticing I was getting older and the age of attraction was dropping.

2) It seems to develop in years, to me that is. When we hit our 12 years or so, it's still considered normal to like a 10 year old (i.e.), but as we grow older, the ages we are fixated to continue the same, or drop (as it was in my case.)

3) Well. Differently than what people think, some kids are a little sexual. Children are attracted to children. Adults are not, so when one hits puberty if they are attracted to children at least 5 years younger they are a pedophile.

"Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnostic criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[1][2][3][4] As a medical diagnosis, it is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older. An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]" -taken from Wikipedia.

4) It's both. I'm attracted to their way, personality. The way they see the world. I'm also attracted physically. The way their body is, their big eyes. No hair on their body. Are children really innocent?

5) I have Bipolar Disorder and PTSD (Although this was acquired when I was 15). I don't think they have anything to do with my pedophilia.

It's a touchy subject. People don't want to study it for fear of what they might find out. I don't think child abuse has anything to do with "becoming" a pedophile. I think it's just an excuse used by rapists. It makes the abuse more "acceptable".

What do you mean by learned behavior? Also, it seems that an extremely large number of child abusers are not pedophiles. Isn't that ironic.

I think it's society that is messed up. Why is it that being attracted to one gender or one age rage is the cause for being "sick" or not normal? Why is it that being attracted to children was normal and healthy in some cultures, thousands of years ago? Society is made up of herds of sheep and Shepard.
One person can influence a large number of people easily. Can think for them and decide for them. I've done this in school. How do you think I get through school by playing with toys, crawling on the floor and meowing and drawing on my exams without being bullied? Because I spoke my mind without being afraid of the consequences and who ever tried to bring me down I simply gave no attention to that person. This made me seem strong, this made people see my views as okay. Heck I tell everyone I'm a pedophile and I suffer no consequences. At all. So yes, social conditioning is very strong.

Thank you very much, I feel that I understand and empathize with paraphillias a lot more now. I agree that society in general is at fault for creating such a negative view of pedophillia. We used to make fun of repressed pedophilliacs such as Michael Jackson in school because people like that were "different" from us. However, our teachers never taught us that segregation was wrong or even explained why it was so bad. Like sheep we just listened to them and it is said to see how so many with paraphillias develop low self esteem and guilt because they do not conform to mainstream American society.

My use of "learned behavior" was a little ambiguous. I think dissatisfaction with mainstream society would be a more accurate word. Some people become monks and Amish to turn away from the materialism encouraged by our culture. Children who have pedophilliac feelings could be doing this at an earlier age as they experience a subconscious fear and rejection of the American value of sexuality. Adults who become repressed pedophilliacs could turn away from sexuality at a more mature age consciously.

However I agree that it is more biological and innate. I feel that pedophillia can be compared to transsexuality. Ray Blanchard has also done research on pedophilliacs and notes that like the transsexual "gender dysphoria", pedophilliacs experience "sexuality dysphoria" at an early age. Those transsexuals who transition later in life display "autogynephillia". I feel that pedophillia should be categorized as a form of "sexuality dysphoria" rather than a phillia. Our society still has a long way to go for it to be truly prejudice free.

tayodore wrote:Before I go into my boring lecture on my findings I would like to ask victims a few questions:

Victims? I'm no victim of my sexual orientation.

tayodore wrote:1) What age did you first have pedophiliac thoughts?

Hard to say, since I've always been terrible with dates. I'm lucky I remember my own age at this moment. Still, I was probably around 12 or 13.

tayodore wrote:2) (May trigger) What are the stages of developing pedophilia? What rate in years or months did it develop?

Stages? Well, I was figuring out this whole masturbation thing, using censored Howard Stern programs and scrambled porn channels. Tried a bunch of different fantasies, and eventually realized that fantasies about small children worked way better for me than fantasies about adults. The entire process took probably six months to a year, though I consider it more a self-discovery process than the paraphilia developing.

It took me a bit longer to sort out where the actual boundaries of my age of attraction are, but they've turned out to be pretty stable and consistent at 0-10 for as long as I can remember.

tayodore wrote:3) (May trigger) Did puberty escalate the condition? Were the thoughts before puberty more of a sexual nature or more platonic?

I don't have any sexual thoughts I can point to before puberty. No platonic ones either that I can map to my current orientation. I'm aware that I am unusual in this regard.

tayodore wrote:I assume that it does because a rise in testosterone increases libido while female pedophiliacs are less likely to commit sex crimes.

Females are less likely to be prosecuted for molesting children. Side effect of the cultural meme about female sexuality being harmless. Also, if you're female, no one's going to prosecute you for having your young child suck on a part of your sexual anatomy like they will if you're male, so there's a potential sexual outlet.

Also, pedophiles aren't likely to molest children at all. Most child molesters are not pedophiles, but situational offenders. Parents are the most common offenders.

tayodore wrote:4) (May trigger) Do attracted to children in a symbolic way (purity and innocence) or is it mostly physical?

I don't believe in the symbolism in the first place. Kids are hardly pure, and innocence is just a fancy word for ignorance, which I've never found particularly attractive. I'm attracted to the physical features of the prepubescent female body. Hit an adult woman (that I otherwise liked) with a magic de-ageing ray that makes her physically six without impacting her mind, and I'd be all over that.

tayodore wrote:5) Are you comorbid (also are affected by) any personality, cognitive and dissociative disorders?

Nothing serious enough to merrit diagnosis. The pedophilia doesn't merrit a diagnosis either, in my case, because I have neither marked distress, nor interpersonal difficulties as a result of my sexual attraction to children.

tayodore wrote:However as a conservative and a yuppie I find my real self having feelings of disgust which I will try to rationalize away with research.

That happens to a lot of people. Starting with the conclusion, then rationalizing it later. We're all guilty of it from time to time.

I should note that the main problem with the various articles you bring up, is that they don't make a meaningful distinction between pedophiles (adults attracted to children) and child molesters (adults who have sex with children). These are two distinct groups with surprisingly little overlap. Conflating them is a big part of why the current level of understanding is so low.

tayodore wrote:Social conditioning is strong regardless of child abuse so I believe pedophiliacs are lacking something biologically and the problem isn't nurture.

I think it's more accurate to say we have something you nons don't, but that's the old in-group pride thing I've got going.

Also, pedophiles aren't likely to molest children at all. Most child molesters are not pedophiles, but situational offenders. Parents are the most common offenders.

I should note that the main problem with the various articles you bring up, is that they don't make a meaningful distinction between pedophiles (adults attracted to children) and child molesters (adults who have sex with children). These are two distinct groups with surprisingly little overlap. Conflating them is a big part of why the current level of understanding is so low.

This may be a little off topic, but it seems as if these kinds of discussions come up rather often. All the time, nons come here into this part of the forum, which is first and foremost a support forum, and expect you guys to drop and answer all their questions when they could have learned a lot by just reading some threads (where this stuff is addressed all the time).

Now, it's not really a problem that nons want to learn. They should learn as much as they can, and educating them is a really good thing and it promotes understanding all around. But time and again, YRR, I've watched you and others explain these same exact things, almost on a regular basis here. Maybe you enjoy continuously explaining this stuff and teaching it, I don't know. But it looks pretty frustrating to me.

I actually think this thread has some pretty good questions, but I also think you guys would maybe benefit from a stickied thread, explaining some of the basics, like "what is the difference between a pedophile and a child molester", and "who is statistically most likely to molest children". That way, when nons come into the forum with questions, they will already be a little bit informed and you don't have to completely start from scratch every time you want to explain something.

If my suggestion is unwarranted, do correct me, but it may be a more effective way to distribute knowledge. Plus knowing up front that there is a huge difference between pedophiles and child molesters helps people think more rationally and ask you more rational questions. They will also be less offensive. In fact, some other forums on this site have stickied threads specifically for nons or to answer the question of nons. So having an informational thread for this stuff stickied would probably do a lot of good.

1) That depends what you mean by pedophiliac thoughts? To answer simply, I think the first time I properly fell in love with a younger boy when I was 14.

2) As YouthRightsRadical said, it was more a sense of gradual realization of what had always been there, rather than feeling some kind of disorder was developing. When I made the comparison between how I felt with the term “pedophilia”, I re-assessed my past and realised I’d probably preferred boys a long time before that.

I think some sort of recognizable preference was there from about 8/9, but this wasn't yet a sexual preference. If the boys are the same age as you the tendency is to think about yourself in terms of being gay. By definition and in reality, you can’t possibly identify with the term “pedophillia” until you’re older than them, and that will vary depending on what age range you're predominantly attracted to.

3) The same as any other sexuality! Don’t straight boys “escalate” into more intensely sexual thoughts about same-age girls as puberty develops and hormones flood their systems?

4) I think there’s a lot of differences and debate between pedophiles themselves on this. For me, I would want there to be some sort of mutual, reciprocative relationship. So, the emotional maturity of an 18 year old with the looks of a 10 year old would be perfect!

That said, I’ve observed adults flirting with each other, or couples in the giddy early stages of dating, and they can often be playful, silly and childish with each other. Perhaps demonstrating a fun-loving personality to a potential partner is fundamentally attractive? Well, kids are inherently playful, silly and childish, so that can be attractive too.

5) I don’t feel that I’m prone to psychological disorders and therefore my attraction is just another disorder developed my a mind that’s prone to it. For me, any mental health issues I’ve developed subsequently have a correlative relationship with the vitriolic rejection by the culture/society/people around me, mixed with the inevitable anguish of being disallowed a relationship with the type of person I love and the physical supression of sexual arousal.

I think I’m right in saying that homosexuals living in a repressive culture (both in the world today and in past western cultures) experience similar emotional and psychological distruption. It’s inevitable given the circumstances, but not a symptom of a damaged, depraved or deviant psyche.

skeleton-countess wrote:So having an informational thread for this stuff stickied would probably do a lot of good.

Absolutely agree, good idea! Certainly with the attracted to children versus abuser of children (pedophile vs child molester) questions.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I get the impression many of us are starved of the opportunity to talk about our situation and feelings. So answering questions like this, when asked non-threateningly and with genuine interest, can be thereuptic and relieving.

skeleton-countess,

I can definitely see the benefits of having a sticky like that.

I've actually been over this territory so often in other places I have some saved stock responses for just about any contingency. I haven't put them into FAQ form, but I probably could with relatively little effort.

If you already have saved stock responses that would probably be even easier.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised you have them saved, I wouldn't want to type the same thing out over and over again either.

Causes relate to your first sexual experience, whether it was through abuse, of at an early age. Your body learns to associate whatever happened to you with the feelings you get. Later in life, if you want to feel god, your brain tells you that the paraphilic act is the way to do it. For example, my first sexual experience was with a prepubescent child (I was prepubescent too). If I want sexual gratification, I got it before by looking at a pre pubescent child, maybe if I do it again, I'll get the same experience.
This conditioning stays with you forever (or until it is 'programmed' out of you) and when you should be developing normal, healthy relationships, the process is skipped over in favor of your conditioning.

1) What age did you first have pedophiliac thoughts?

I was six when I first became strongly sexually attracted to girls' privates. By age twelve the pedophilic thoughts started getting more intense, it was around then that I really took an interest in girls as young as four and up to age 10/11. I lost interest in a lot of the girls when they started to develop fuller breasts and pubic hair turned me off big time upon first sighting.

2) (May trigger) What are the stages of developing pedophilia? What rate in years or months did it develop?

At 12 it began in a pedophilic way, but I had been getting erections from age 6 and did expose myself a lot to girls (mainly couple years younger than me). I would have insisted on seeing their privates then.

But at around age 14 it really began developing for me, with the advent of the internet and all that.

Mid-twenties for me is when it grew strongest.


3) (May trigger) Did puberty escalate the condition? Were the thoughts before puberty more of a sexual nature or more platonic? I assume that it does because a rise in testosterone increases libido while female pedophiliacs are less likely to commit sex crimes.

Puberty did escalate it big time, despite the fact that I started to masturbate at 9, and had first orgasm at 11, the pre-pubescent thoughts were definitely of a sexual nature. If I had known what sex was, or that my penis was meant to go inside a vagina for sex then I probably would have been doing it from age six or seven. Attempting it anyway.

4) (May trigger) Do attracted to children in a symbolic way (purity and innocence) or is it mostly physical?

All three.

5) Are you comorbid (also are affected by) any personality, cognitive and dissociative disorders?

I'm a recovering substance and alcohol abuser and have been diagnosed with General anxiety disorder and depression - for which I'm being treated.

I do have certain traits of BPD but not severe enough for a diagnosis.

Hope that helped?