OCD issues (new)

EDIT: I just now noticed that my old thread finally received a response.



This is a shortened version of my old thread because the old one received no response for some reason; presumably because it was too long (or maybe it's something else, maybe I'm just a horrible person and people aren't inclined to tell me that into my face).
For months, I've been tortured by thoughts that may or may not be a product of the OCD I've been diagnosed with or not. I will try to be as brief as possible because whenever I go into great detail, I don't receive responses that hit the core of my issues.

Personal and not very thorough philosophical study I did led to me to the conclusion that morality is relative. This conclusion led to contemplate how far I'd be willing to break traditional social norms if it were in my interest (murder and cruelty both came to mind). One of the way torturous thoughts manifest themselves is in the form of accusing me that my conclusion concerning morality was merely a product of my desire to live the way I wanted, and not a result of any rational inquiry into the matter. I can't decide on what is the case. Later, I learned about the seduction community (pick-up artistry) and found this blogger called Roissy, arrogant sexist, racist and classist snob who advocates being a total jerk to attract women.

I never put any of his advice into practice, but for a while I began to observe the world to some extent through the lens of his philosophy. I began to contemplate - if morality is non-existent, then is it rational judge people on the basis of money, physical appearance and other superficial attributes? I don't remember what conclusions I drew, but for the sake of argument, let's assume the worst case scenario - I wanted to be a total arrogant jerk and even began to see myself as one in my own mind.

I don't care about any of that anymore (I just want to live a normal life) but my mind leads me to believe that my decision to drop these unconventional ideas is a product of the fact that I've realized I can't live up to his standards (I have no intention, perhaps not even the ability, to spend my life pursuing money, and I am not that good-looking or intelligent), not merely that I came to "see the light" and the world as it really is.

All of this results in paralysis and constant mental self-flagellation. I don't know what I should do. So, at any moment I want to enjoy the love and fellowship with other people, I am reminded that at one point, I might have completely devalued these things. Any time I begin to work towards change, I am reminded that what I am about to do - work hard - the quality of working hard, is something I might have once devalued in favor of talent and genetics. Any time I want to preach love and tolerance, I am reminded that I once considered the idea of maybe hurting others to reach my goals. Any time I want to satisfy myself with my life situation, I am reminded that once I might have considered myself inherently inferior and subordinate to someone "above" me in certain things. All this leads to complete paralysis and frustration.

What should I do? It this OCD? I have no trouble dismissing OCD thoughts once I can establish for sure that they are OCD-induced.

I don't want to replicate what I wrote in response to your last thread, but are you considering seeing a therapist?

funky wrote:I don't want to replicate what I wrote in response to your last thread, but are you considering seeing a therapist?

Yes. Actually, I already am seeing a hypnotherapist, I've been doing that for a year. I even spent a month in a mental hospital last year. However, as I've said, I am not brave enough to bring the things I talked about here. This might change in the near future. I told her that I can't stop thinking, that the thinking paralyzes me, and that I am not comfortable discussing the content of my thoughts (though I did mention some things, like hypothetically contemplating whether I would commit murder). She said she understood.

I may or may not take a trip to a psychotherapist again one of these days.

The nature of OCD changed over the past year. To some extent, I've even learned how to suppress and get rid of them once I can be sure that they are OCD-induced. So, do you think this is the case here? Is this OCD?

Is what I am worrying about rational?

It seems most people who read about this say that, no, I'm just thinking too much. And yet I somehow get the impression that they didn't really carefully read what my issue is.

Dice I think that you were just considering different mindsets. And when you do that, you
naturally put yourself into the frame of mind of the imaginary person whose actions you're imagining. You considered those various mindsets, of being coldly pragmatic, or hierarchical in terms of people being inferior/superior; now you want to pursue a normal lifestyle, and forgoe those former imaginings. Good for you, really, I mean it - you want to live a normal life. Having considered alternatives doesn't mean that you don't deserve to be normal and happy.

I don't think that it is as clear cut as whether these thoughts are ocd or not. Ocd is a way of thinking that warps and exaggerates normal thoughts, or makes us view them through a distorting lens. We tend to have to look at worst case/extreme scenarios - then we harshly judge our motivations in doing so. So yes, I do think that ocd is involved in your concerns, and that you would benefit from seeing a therapist, and being completely honest about what you have written in this post and your previous one.

funky wrote:Dice I think that you were just considering different mindsets. And when you do that, you
naturally put yourself into the frame of mind of the imaginary person whose actions you're imagining. You considered those various mindsets, of being coldly pragmatic, or hierarchical in terms of people being inferior/superior; now you want to pursue a normal lifestyle, and forgoe those former imaginings. Good for you, really, I mean it - you want to live a normal life. Having considered alternatives doesn't mean that you don't deserve to be normal and happy.

I'm about to rant away a little bit - some of what I'm about to write are attempts to justify myself, others are just thinking aloud. I don't expect you, or anyone else to read all, if any of it. But it will nevertheless benefit me to put some of my thoughts in written form.

Regarding the manner in which I choose to see the world - I think I genuinely really want to see the world as it really is, not the way I want it to be. If the world is one giant, amoral, sexual conquest arena, where the only thing that matters is the acquisition and exercise of power, then so be it. If some people are worth more than others, which might very well be the case, I have no problem believing that, either. Even if I am at the rock bottom of his "hierarchy". Some great philosophers believed exactly that.

Does morality exist? Objective morality certainly doesn't on the assumption there's no god, which I don't think there is, and if I am allowed to construct a moral code however I like, why should I prioritize anything than my own self-interest? It makes no sense if "right" and "wrong" are just human constructs.

The last paragraph, at least, reflects how I used to think. Now I tend to accuse myself that the reason I thought that way was just so I wouldn't have any moral obligations to do anything. Although morality is relative, nevertheless, it is in our nature as social animals to care about other people to some extent. The last sentence is something I've concluded recently, which made reconsider my past contemplation to direct my life towards "cold pragmatism". Again, my mind accuses me that this is what I want to believe rather than truly believing it. I began to want morality to exist, so I immediately found justifications for believing it. I don't want to be unable to morally criticize people who treat me badly. I don't want to judge people on the basis of superficial attributes.

But if I was the type of person who just believed whatever made me happy, rather than what I thought was true, why did I spent the last three months flagellating myself mentally and accusing myself that I don't deserve a normal life, at the expense of continuously procrastinating real life problems that mandate to be solved as soon as possible? This, I think, is the most powerful argument in favor of my intellectual integrity. I don't just assume things I want to be true, are true. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be having these problems.

Ultimately, does truth even exist? It's all "a matter of perception", I've been told. Truth, rationality and reality, are, like morality, apparently, relative. So no opinion on anything is really right or wrong. Including the nature of morality, the nature of reality, the manner life is supposed to be lived. If that is the case then does your worldview ultimately really depend on what you want to believe? I'm having a discussion on morality on another forum right now.

I'm almost not even sure what I believe about anything anymore.

Sigh. And the thinking just goes on and on. On the rare occasion I leave the house, I get filled with so much envy seeing all of my happy, carefree peers who are not trapped in a vicious cycle of self-loathing and neurotic thinking.



In any case, I am certainly most thankful you took the time to read my past posts and give me your feedback.

Some more things...

1) I mentioned that I contemplated becoming a jerk, then realized I couldn't be one because I'm not good enough. However, being a jerk doesn't really requite any special qualities. Anyone can be a jerk. There are plenty of arrogant people who are not all that. In fact, I didn't mention this before, but the whole point of 'pick up artistry' is being overconfident. Believing yourself better than you really are. I could still be one if I wanted to. Also, the metric for determining the superiority or inferiority of an individual relative to another is subjective. Therefore, anyone can really consider themselves better than others and he will not be more or less right than anyone else.

2) When I was first introduced to the concept of 'dominance hierarchy', it seemed unimaginable to me I would ever to consider someone 'above' me in that matter. I think differently now. I have no problem admitting some people are 'better' and even 'greater' than myself (although 'superior' sounds a bit too strong). On the other hand, I do have a problem believing myself unworthy of respect, relative to any individual. As I write here, is it hypocrisy to change my metric for determining the 'respectability' of an individual, on the assumption the sole basis behind this is that I realized I wasn't as good as I thought?

3) When I was first introduced to the concept of morality being non-objective, I thought there was no point in constructing a personal moral code prioritizing anything than one's own self-interest. What I didn't realize at a certain point was, that it is in my self-interest as a social animal to bond with other people. Thus, being 'moral' to a large extent is within my interest. Still, I still don't see a rational basis for acting in what society perceives as a 'moral manner' when there's absolutely no benefit for me (although such situations are very rare).



I am rambling a lot, and even my continuous posts here are probably just attempts to seek validation from others, to tell me that I am not that of a person, that I should relax, etc. I don't know what to think. I'd like to think moving on with life is as simple as seeing all this as a 'learning experience', but perhaps that's being to simplistic? I had some borderline evil thoughts, consciously, not OCD-induced and now I just want to forget about it? Or maybe thinking otherwise is being too complicated.

Come to think of it, it seems it's definitely not the case that I ever overestimated myself. This, it seems, is confirmed OCD-induced nonsense.

I was highly insecure about myself throughout the entirety of the last year, which is exactly when I read these blogs. I distinctly remember I believed IQ was an accurate measurement of intelligence throughout most of the last year, and having gotten unimpressive results on an online test, I was convinced I wasn't that smart. I also remember I posted a picture on Yahoo answers and asked people to rate me, and while the results weren't bad, they weren't anywhere near worthy of warranting arrogance. Add to that the fact of my psychological problems (OCD) that basically made me almost functionally retarded, that I thought I might never cure, and it's impossible I could have believed myself that good.

At that point, it would have been much more beneficial to adopt a sort moral view of the world where the weak deserve respect and kindness. But it seems I chose the opposite, not because it served me well, but because I thought it made sense.

I was in the same situation 2 years ago