Differences between NPD and HPD

I'm sure the thread already exists somewhere but I couldn't find it.

Seen all sorts of speculation about HPD being a female version of NPD, or a cross between BPD and NPD etc.

Most important/specific answers I think?

Classic NPD:

"Look at me, help me prove to myself I am worth more than others, give me the means to construct/inflate my ego and hide from myself that I have none."

"Typical" HPD:

"Daddy Daddy!(or mommy) - Look at meeeee! Love meee, please? Am I getting your attention yet? Please love me."

I could elaborate loads, but I've got a feeling the rest has been discussed already. Just never seen the basic motivations behind them written here! - (Or maybe missed them.)

I think the only time a narcissist would beg for attention, like someone with HPD would do, is when they literally have no other supply. Like for example, after a break up or getting laid off. So i agree with your two quotes. I do not know any other differences really, except that, apparently, a male HPD is usually considered a narcissist, while a female HPD is just a female HPD

TiredOfRepression21 wrote:I think the only time a narcissist would beg for attention, like someone with HPD would do, is when they literally have no other supply. Like for example, after a break up or getting laid off. So i agree with your two quotes. I do not know any other differences really, except that, apparently, a male HPD is usually considered a narcissist, while a female HPD is just a female HPD

Not what I meant, lol. It was not much to do with begging for attention, more about underlying motivations. Its also possible for people to have combinations of different problems though.

You mean male HPDs are usually misdiagnosed as narcissists ?

Whilst the two can be distinct from each other, there can also be a point where the two disorders merge. People are very seldom "purely" one specific disorder. All the PDs have some degree of narcissism at their core. The core issue of NPD is admiration, and positive attention, whilst the core issue of HPD is attention, which can be negative or positive. A person with HPD isn't afraid to be seen as vulnerable if it secures attention, whereas a person with NPD prefers to project an aura of superiority. People with HPD demonstrate higher levels of anxiety than those with NPD. I'd agree that HPD seems to contain a hybrid of narcissistic and borderline traits and it can sometimes seem to be indistinguishable from somatic narcissism, but there are very subtle differences. NPD can be expressed in various ways. For instance, a person with the disorder might present as being very serious and academic, whilst another person with the same disorder may come across as being very gregarious and sociable. People with HPD tend to be larger than life, overly enthusiastic and dramatic and seem to be more stereotypical and more easily recognisable.

Seen all sorts of speculation about HPD being a female version of NPD, or a cross between BPD and NPD etc.

Not what I meant, lol. It was not much to do with begging for attention, more about underlying motivations. Its also possible for people to have combinations of different problems though.

Yes on both accounts. personally, I don't believe there's a major difference between Histrionics and Narcissists. However, I do fully believe that the means of how the victim passes the narcissistic stage becomes gendered. A female with a femme body, not gay, etc...will go with traditional female roles to gain "supply". That seems the typical HPD route, if you're masculine whether you're male or female is diagnosed as a Narcissist.

Then there's the different categories. Is it just sexual attention, admiration, or aggressive domination? Even those things are gendered, and both categories heavily really on such things for diagnosis. Basically, the diagnosis depends on the gender and the gendered forms of how the victim/patient "gets attention". There's been some recent studies on this and there kinda interesting.

So, no. I really think that HPD and NPD are the same thing.

Euler said

So, no. I really think that HPD and NPD are the same thing.
Euler

A gender specific expression of narcissism perhaps?

NPD need reassurance they are better, while HPD need reassurance they are worth something?

hpd is now gone in dsm criteria
hpds get to be diagnosed as either npd, or bpd
so, no need to distinguish

Good question katana. I'm not sure on the motivation part but I think maybe we make too much of "motivation" with the PDs. Partly what counts is what is motivating the person, for sure, but an equal part is just what equipment they do or do not have. A truck with three wheels doesn't "want" to go off the road, it just has no other way of functioning.

From what I've observed -

HPDs maybe believe that having attention *is* what makes them superior, whereas narcissists have a wider or more individual idea of superiority?

Also, HPDs seem more able to read others in a normal(ish) way and they have some empathy. If the lawn guy severs an artery and is bleeding to death on the grass, an HPD might not notice if she is on the phone or painting her toes, but if she notices, she will call 911 and feel quite shaken. A narcissist will look out the window and wonder how in the heck he can be expected to put up with such a slow, lazy lawn guy. I mean, WTF is wrong with this dude? IS he SLEEPING on my grass? I don't pay him to sleep! etc. Sigh

Just a quick enquiry. Are HPDs aggressive? Reason I ask is my friend is quite sexual and sleeps around (HPD or somatic, seems somatic) But she lies and cheats in her relationships; she schemes, manipulates for money, posessions, food, lifts to places. But the main concern, which is the main point of my questions, is that when I confront her over a lie she has told (and its a blatant lie that you cannot get out of) she will go into a rage and attack me. This is when I am driving and include punching me in the chest, grabbing me by the hair and trying to smash it against the window, and turning to face me with such venom saying " I want to punch your fuc**ng face in." There was atime when I pulled over and refused to drive anywhere with her and she got out the car and started demanding i drive her to where she wants to go and when I refused, she would attack me by throwing me against the car and hitting me in the side of the face and trying to force me in th car. Her friend (gay male) in the back done nothing as though it was fine behaviour. Yeah I know, he's a co-dependent from what I have read. She would also turn people against me by posting on her FB that theres this guy called xxxx and I want to punch his face in etc., so they obviously have turned against me, even though they dont know me.

Interestingly, she said she was sectioned a few years go (durring her teens, probably around 15 years old) and was diagnosed with Bi-polar and prescribed olanzopine. She hasnt taken it for years and says "I use mind over matter." However, she says she doesnt "associate with mental people" in regards to my anxiety disorder. So its like "I have Bi-polar" but then " I am not mentally ill." I have checked her symptoms with mania and it doesnt appear mania. She doesnt talk excessively, doesnt go from idea to idea, doesnt seem overly active i.e. motor moevements, and her aggression is reactive to being questioned. Its left me confused because Im still thinking NPD because she said her mum was horrible to her and has ditcheed her for another guy. She also says she was always in fights in school and expelled from 4 different schools. Sounds NPD but I could be wrong.