The People Pleaser. A good girl narcissist

Over many years I did analytical work on anxiety cycles, in particular the doubt, fear and punishment cycle inherent in OCD and eating disorders. More recently I have encountered narcissism and having had a narcissistic mother, I was intrigued to discover more about it and uncover what the addictive cycle was that drove it. This is my own analytical work but has it roots in my earlier work on compulsions. So I will start there.

The narcissist's view of themselves is that of a people pleaser who cannot say no to others.

Compulsive Giver aka People Pleaser based on doubt fear punishment cycle.

Compulsive giver or people pleaser needs
approval and attention
From external source to feel self-esteem.
Their pattern dominates all interactions

1.Finds Target as secondary audience for attention and control through giving.
Over generous display = praise worthy. Qualities for target over valued: Ever present, Ever thankful, Ever needy

2. Doubts about value of constantly giving. Giving equated to feeling of sacrifice

3.Verify status of sacrifice through Criticism with condoning audience that devalues the target.
=They aren’t worthy

4. Fear of being used and exploited = increased anxiety
Projects blame, labels and shames Target as cause of their bad feelings
Target is viewed as selfish and self-absorbed not to see the incredible sacrifice. Pleaser is a victim unable
say no to exploiter.

5. Target deserves punishment so dump & withdraw to solve victim status and appear powerful
with Primary audience.
Primary audience applauds action
Audience approval = increases self esteem through agreed spiteful action.
Fractured relationship blamed on character of Target

6. Victory Anxiety relieved.
Primary audience celebrates without recognising pattern of personal destructive behaviour

7. Hollow victory but primary audience captured
Does recognise that solution has casualties
But doesn’t reality test options as sees only their perspective.
Belief in winners and losers so is OK with reflection.
Needs new Target for self esteem building as they have actually just failed a relationship.
Confusion as they attempt to reconcile victim status by lying, blaming and justifying =lowering of self esteem. Note the primary audience is frequently the family of origin.




The people pleaser is another form of narcissist. They don’t value their own giving but the attention they receive for the giving and the later criticism gives them victim status. Their primary audience is generally their family of origin. Their personality is still heavily invested as the actor, manipulator who is addicted to attention. It is a good girl script they have adopted to get attention and control in their family of origin. It doesnt serve them well as adults because adult life cant be as easily controlled by a tap dance for daddy.

This is how I believe the disorder develops. Again I am investing heavily on my own personal experiences. I was 9 when I was trying to understand my mother's motivation. I have spent a lifetime getting to know it and that is why it resonates with those who find themselves dealing with a narcissist. It is not a textbook. It is experienced.

Development and Character of Narcissism

Personality invested As The Actor, The Manipulator & The Addict,

Core need to control life itself.

1. Infant experiences Primary Care deficit usually by mother – lack of mirroring /empathy
ie Child cries, mother ignores or denies or chides rather than reads. Parent Model operates in the home possibly authoritarian hierarchy. Parent needs come first.


2. Child stops responding to own self needs- fails to develop independent self


3. Child reads mother/father wants - external focus for approval. Approval conditional


4.Child controls mother/father - empowered by creating successful false self. (The actor )
indulgent reward of attention = reinforcement


5. Child extends strategy to others, becomes predator-exploiter, who can charm (read) people to do what he or she wants- finding weakness in others = empowerment. (The manipulator) Excited by ability = Elevated self mood + Beginning of addiction


6.Childish omnipotence= Extension - One can control life itself


7.With age and more reality, experiences confusion -Anxiety - frustration and anger develops, as life is autonomous and not able to be controlled. Life not penned by their ideal scripts.


8 Displace anger through sadism and frustration through masochism - Unkindness to self and others. Someone must be blamed. Inventive delusional paranoia. Blame anyone principle.


9 Focus on externally controlling life but fail to control real self – Impulsivity- lack of reflection and lack of empathy. Aggressive, vindictive, risky and promiscuous behaviours seen as decisive action rather than self defeating projections of inner turmoil.


10.Overwhelmed by evidence that they are not in control of life - panic attack. May jettison life path to establish new ideal path that can be controlled through containment and limit setting.


11. Core urgency belief that they will fall apart if they don’t control life. Addiction , a crave for attention and or approval = life controlled = life saved ( First learnt when controlling mother for attention) Rigid relationship dynamic. Will support any idealised script that purports to offer this dynamic. If you are not an ideal source you’ll be discarded and replaced.
( The Addict)


12.Real Ego remains immature as development arrested during infancy. Lack of conscience- wilful spirit.

There is no known cure rather an improvement in awareness. The tendency to exploit will always be present as will the delusional paranoid tendency to interpret events to fit self talk. Narcissists operate on what they say to themselves rather than the truth. They only read what they want to see. Relationship investment is through the actor, manipulator and addict so more healthy alternatives need to be found. Redoing one’s personality is a big ask. This personality structure has existed to save the infant but unfortunately fails the adult.

Awareness begins with understanding :

1. Believe that life cannot be controlled and that one doesn’t know what is best for oneself. You are in control when you are free from the idea that you can control. Ie You cant control the current in the ocean but you can control the boat. You’re the boat. Core issue
2.Stop manipulating people or looking for people’s weaknesses. Core issue
3. Learning to monitor self and control impulsive urges. No need for criticism, blame and excuse. Be accountable. Check before you act. Core issue
4. Establish a conscience that can be admired, base this on kindness as a yardstick. (no need for religious label)
5. Learn acceptance and trust in life’s autonomy
6. Watch out for masochistic giving or spiteful sadistic debasement of others. Not elegant, but regrettable Core issue
7. Reality check your perspective. If you think like an enemy you will create an enemy even out of your friend by selective reporting. Recognize paranoid delusional tendency
8.Manage the fear of letting go of control. You can’t control so stop trying. Relief
9. Learn about narcissism to best avoid the pitfalls. When you can anticipate how you will behave and what you will feel you are more in control of the disorder.
10.Establish a healthy relationship with family of origin. Share truth not criticism. Look to solve not to blame.
11.Get in touch with your core inner self to be honest and genuine in relationships.
12 Let go of your addiction to attention.
Marg Harris Beemer

The first post is a little unclear; sounds like it was translated from Japanese or something.

I liked the second one.

i don't have the people pleasing problem myself, so i don't know this one from experience, but i think that has some good things in it. i disagree with the bit about "There is no known cure rather an improvement in awareness. The tendency to exploit will always be present as will the delusional paranoid tendency to interpret events to fit self talk...." -

i think recovery from any PD happens on a few different levels -

recognition of behaviour, thoughts and feelings - self awareness, recognising them as they happen, and then choosing to reconsider and respond differently (equivalent: CBT)

resolution of trauma - putting feelings experienced in relation to things normally "back where they belong" in childhood so they can be let go of. (equivalent: typical counselling/therapy)

both actively being aware of and challenging core beliefs and perceptions and allowing those to change as they are percieved, reconnected to trauma and experienced with different outcomes in relation to actions. (equivalent: schema therapy)

Improvement in awareness is just a partial recovery, only the first one of these, i think all of them need to be connected.

What I really suggest is that this narcissism has formed a person's personality from the very begin. It is a big ask to expect anyone to redo their personality. Some of the traits of narcissism have served the person well and have saved the baby in them. The personality traits are invested as the manipulator, actor and addict for attention and survival. I suggest a realistic view is to harness these traits but under the guidance of a conscience. Yet this would mean that you would be second guessing yourself all the time. ie Am I manipulating here? Do they really mean to be getting something over me or am I paranoid? That is the perspective of a narcissist being tamed by reason and the higher power training of the conscience. It would be too hard to expect a cure with this method.
For a total cure to take place, the narcissist would first see everyone as an innocent without guile and deception. ie the Norm perspective. He would not be projecting outwards what he himself is onto the world. Why would that be so wise? He knows a different truth? He has to be genuine to have a chance of a better life. I think all mental illness can be managed. What defines a cure will be based on an individuals assessment of how far they come? You can call it a cure when you have sound relationships without drama and relate to the world without spite but genuine feelings of kindness to all. I guess a really advanced soul could make such a journey.

To last try.
The first post should be viewed as creating a circle of the points. Each point feeds onto the next.

The primary target for bonding for this narcissist is their family of origin. A secondary target for attention is their love interest. I call it secondary because it is expendable and can be replaced.

The narcissist finds someone to target in a relationship for their attention. They say they have fallen madly in love with Mr wonderful. But then a sequence plays out of doubt, fear, punishment and withdrawal from the relationship.The target person is not worthy of all that is being done for them.The narcissist feels they are being exploited for their kindness. That is their story.

Meanwhile the first family of origin waits in the background with a bucket full of acceptance of their child and criticism of the target, to ensure failure of any relationship.

This original family is then the primary target for bonding and provides an island of stability. They are the condoning audience. They are the fall back position. When the relationship is over, bonding and attention of the family of origin is secured.

This dynamic creates a nest of narcissists who think they are ideal and everyone else is out their exploiting them. The children in these families have boundary issues with parents , who are viewed as ideal. These children will have multiple fractured relationships. They can create a very seductive persona without moral restraints of conscience. Think a number of children all to different fathers.

Such a narcissist will appear both highly sensitive from reading people well but also very brutal from the impulsive desire to payback with spite. This is a form of narcissist that is really good at fooling a lot of people. But they eventually are known for their criticism. They love it too much.


Of course, no attempt is made to solve any relationship by actually talking things out or verifying anything. The first the target knows things are wrong will be the day the narc tells them there is someone else and walks out.They have had the upper hand all the time. They have played out their pattern or script well. They will be out their now doing it again. Yes they have found a replacement. who is just wonderful. Their life is wonderful. They are thrilled to be so in love again. So the cycle starts again.

They will call themselves a people pleaser but in the end the casualties tell a different story.

margharris wrote:I suggest a realistic view is to harness these traits but under the guidance of a conscience. This would mean that you would be second guessing yourself all the time. ie Am I manipulating here? Do they really mean to be getting something over me or am I paranoid? That is the perspective of a narcissist being tamed by reason and the higher power training of the conscience.

That would be having absolutely no interest in "curing" a narcissist the same way you intend to cure e.g. "depression", because for a start, curing depression involves having the welfare of the patient as the primary concern, even though depression can cause a person to act in ways that may be upsetting, harmful or abusive towards others.

going through life constantly second-guessing yourself and never trying to get past that as if conscience (in the case of narcissism we're not talking "conscience" we're talking shame) is a form of self-punishment, and is totally 100% other-orientated, not healthy self-other orientated.

margharris wrote:For a cure to take place, the narcissist would first see everyone as an innocent without guile and deception. ie the Norm perspective.

Disagree, that wouldn't be the first step at all. the first steps are going to be to do with looking at what's going on inside, and nothing like such a ridiculously great big giant leap like that.

Also, i'm taking what you mean to be seeing other not as projections of issues. because literally seeing others as automatically innocent without any negative intentions would actually be unrealistic.

margharris wrote:I think all mental illness can be managed. What defines a cure will be based on an individuals assessment of how far they come? You can call it a cure when you have sound relationships without drama and relate to the world without spite but genuine feelings of kindness to all. I guess a really advanced soul could make such a journey.

No, you call it a cure when the person's issues are resolved, and because psychological health does not come in B&W, it doesn't work in magic points where you "call something cured". the issue is quality of life, and your proposed solution of making a person constantly second-guess themselves out of shame is not quality of life.

"genuine feelings of kindness to all" that's going beyond "normal" and way into idealistic - that's an advanced stage of emotional maturity usually achieved by extremely stable older people who've lived an emotionally rich and healthy lifetime.

No one with a PD is "a really advanced soul" people with PDs are all coming from seriously screwed up places. Yes there is an element of managing problems while people have them, but i don't think that's worth much as a "cure". Its coming from a perspective which is expecting the pwNPD to function with a complete lack of entitlement!

margharris wrote:I was 9 when I was trying to understand my mother's motivation. I have spent a lifetime getting to know it and that is why it resonates with those who find themselves dealing with a narcissist.

are you a narc, a genius, both or neither?

margharris wrote:It doesnt serve them well as adults because adult life cant be as easily controlled by a tap dance for daddy.

sure it can, but the dance is more complicated.

marycarterpaint wrote:

margharris wrote:I was 9 when I was trying to understand my mother's motivation. I have spent a lifetime getting to know it and that is why it resonates with those who find themselves dealing with a narcissist.

are you a narc, a genius, both or neither?
LOL

Katana
You have misread or misinterpreted my comments. I thought you were taking me to task over my belief that narcissism needs to be managed rather than cured. The word cured strikes me as something absolute. ( like pregnancy...you are or you aren't)

My explanation of the use of the higher order conscience was to show how difficult that would be on a daily basis if you had the mindset of a narcissist. I secondly provided an approach were you reinvented your personality and fully changed your perspective.Redoing your hardwiring. Again I highlighted the extreme to show how unrealistic that solution was.

I don't really believe a PD is similar to a depression or any episodic event that has a cause and can respond with some 12 step programme or medication. A PD serves the interests of the person and has an addictive quality to it. They get satisfaction from their behaviours even when they are destructive. The drama seems to be often what they actually relish. They can feel invigorated and empowered by it.
That is why I will again suggest it is something to tame through mindfulness of what they might be doing to others. You are looking for an improvement in functioning and caring.
So if you work on managing. You accept who you are with all your recognised flaws and accept that others also have flaws. Then I would be fully exploring the concept of doing unto others what you would like done unto you. It is OK if you mess up and be a bit of a narc. We all do.
You work with yourself just to be a better person. It is a process. It is possibly your life lesson. And life isn't cured but managed.