Why can't it be cured?

Why is it that most mental disorders people generally seem to be believe are 'curable' yet narcissism is generally seen as incurable? What makes narcissism so special?

Xander wrote:Why is it that most mental disorders people generally seem to be believe are 'curable' yet narcissism is generally seen as incurable? What makes narcissism so special?

Hi xnder,

i think there may be possibility to cure narcissism, but i think we can't think that it is curable. May be this is the reason to remain still incurable.

Xander wrote:Why is it that most mental disorders people generally seem to be believe are 'curable' yet narcissism is generally seen as incurable? What makes narcissism so special?

NPD is a personality disorder. I don't know if any of the personality disorders are truly curable. Most are very treatable however, and with therapy, the person can live within their disorder with some element of control. But this only happens when the disordered person accepts the fact that they need help. That's not something you see very often with a full-blown N. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it.

I think the lack of empathy is one of the greatest obstacles to sucessful treatment. An N can understand the concept of it, but he can not feel it. It would be like a blind man understanding the existance of colors and even knowing which ones match. But how do you give him a true understanding if he is unable to see?

Serendipity wrote:

Xander wrote:Why is it that most mental disorders people generally seem to be believe are 'curable' yet narcissism is generally seen as incurable? What makes narcissism so special?

NPD is a personality disorder. I don't know if any of the personality disorders are truly curable. Most are very treatable however, and with therapy, the person can live within their disorder with some element of control. But this only happens when the disordered person accepts the fact that they need help. That's not something you see very often with a full-blown N. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it.

I think the lack of empathy is one of the greatest obstacles to sucessful treatment. An N can understand the concept of it, but he can not feel it. It would be like a blind man understanding the existance of colors and even knowing which ones match. But how do you give him a true understanding if he is unable to see?

Fully agree with you on this point.

Very little, if any research has specifically gone into NPD.

Research has gone into AsPD and psychopathy and come out with results ---> specifically genes that seem to be over expressed or under expressed in cases of such.

Also Schizoid personality disorder has been researched ---> have found 3 or 4 different genes that seem to be associated with it.

In both cases there is no cure. In any case, there has not been a cure, but it's the research that counts.

There is no research into NPD because really, no one wants to find what causes it, they just want those assholes who hurt them to go away, because they're "assholes" not a personality disorder. There may be a lack of empathy on the NPD side, but there is true apathy on the other side aswell.

I'm no expert but I kinda see it as ... other personality disorders it's about adjusting existing behaviors and emotions ... With NPD being a primary lacking of empathy ... how does one fix something that was never there in the first place.

There may be a lack of empathy on the NPD side, but there is true apathy on the other side aswell.

I agree with this ... Obviously this has to do with the compassion for victims of NPD ... but I believe for any N who is self aware and wanting to understand the disorder ... this deserves the same amount of consideration ...

I think the lack of empathy is one of the greatest obstacles to sucessful treatment. An N can understand the concept of it, but he can not feel it. It would be like a blind man understanding the existance of colors and even knowing which ones match. But how do you give him a true understanding if he is unable to see?

Very well put ...

I spose it's different for everyone, but a complete willingness to be open seems to be the only way. I was reading a small, fairly informal and non-spiritual book on Buddhism (this is 6 or 7 years ago) and the book was talking about looking at what was really there and it was only that little sentence - 'whats really there' that started to get me very angry, I had no idea why (i had no idea about anything in those days) but I did start to think about repeating patterns in my life etc. Anyway, cut a long story short, one thing led to another and a whole journey of awakening and self-discovery started. That was pretty much the extent of my relationship with 'the Buddh' but addressing my personal/family problems and, most importantly, admitting I had thousands of them, was the start and it certainly wouldn't have happened without his original teachings. From then on it was therapy, inner child work, psychological awareness etc all the way.

Blah. Anyway, as a response, the lack of empathy is a huge obstacle and a potential source of terrible guilt which as a narc, is a horrid thing cos of our tendency to project it on to others.

For me, the way around it is to visualise, I visualise my Narcky (false) self as my wounded inner child and have to remind myself to treat him with compassion because it is unrealistic to expect others to do so. This is very hard to do but gets a little bit easier with time and patience. Unless I'm low on emotional energy, then the narcky stuff can start to seep through.

But I became a Narc as a defence against what I had to live/put up with when I was a child, mainly from my mother, just as she did the same thing to cope with her father and so on (not that she knows that - she's nuts!!!). As a child it works, it gets you through it and it acted as a force field to stop the emotional incest, (kids are so resilient and creative like that aren't they!). The problem is as kids we don't have any discernment (is that the word?) and it's how we learn to live. Plus we can't stop the absorbtion of our narc parents worst traits cos we're supposed to 'love' them.

Again although I'm not a Buddhist or religious at all, he said a great thing about making a raft to get across a dangerous river on to dry land, then walking about on dry land with the raft still on your back - thats how it can feel sometimes.

But I became a Narc as a defence against what I had to live/put up with when I was a child, mainly from my mother, just as she did the same thing to cope with her father and so on (not that she knows that - she's nuts!!!). As a child it works, it gets you through it and it acted as a force field to stop the emotional incest, (kids are so resilient and creative like that aren't they!). The problem is as kids we don't have any discernment (is that the word?) and it's how we learn to live. Plus we can't stop the absorbtion of our narc parents worst traits cos we're supposed to 'love' them.

The narc I know told me his mom beat him then at 5 or 6 he went to live with his dad, then at some point she comitted suicide, so I just figured it was his mom . I felt really bad when he sat & told that story, almost had a tear in his eye, I know I did, and I don't doubt the story.This is the kind of stuff that gets supply big time, cause he kept telling that story to every gal he wanted attention from.

I don't doubt his story either. It's just, as you say, that his true story is now being used by him as a device, as a source of manipulation, for his life-game.

I met a man in a group about six months ago. After a time, he told a story of his wife dying, with many details, and it was very touching. I felt compassion for him. He then referred to himself occasionally as 'the widower', and it was touching as he was still young and a very handsome man. It was only later that the rest of the story came out... when his wife died, they had been divorced for several years. She'd left him for his self-absorbtion and emotional brutality. She'd remarried a kind loving man. At her funeral, the second husband sat in the family section with the young teen son; the 'widower' sat alone in the back of the church because none of the family, nor his own son, wanted to be with him.

Yet, he was still getting lots of mileage out of his "my wife died young" story'; I suspect in his mind, he will always be the poor widower.

narcbolan wrote:... That was pretty much the extent of my relationship with 'the Buddh' but addressing my personal/family problems and, most importantly, admitting I had thousands of them, was the start and it certainly wouldn't have happened without his original teachings. From then on it was therapy, inner child work, psychological awareness etc all the way.

Blah. Anyway, as a response, the lack of empathy is a huge obstacle and a potential source of terrible guilt which as a narc, is a horrid thing cos of our tendency to project it on to others.

For me, the way around it is to visualise, I visualise my Narcky (false) self as my wounded inner child and have to remind myself to treat him with compassion because it is unrealistic to expect others to do so. This is very hard to do but gets a little bit easier with time and patience. Unless I'm low on emotional energy, then the narcky stuff can start to seep through.

........Again although I'm not a Buddhist or religious at all, he said a great thing about making a raft to get across a dangerous river on to dry land, then walking about n dry land with the raft still on your back - thats how it can feel sometimes.

Hi Narcbolan (What does that mean??)
Your post has struck this chord with me.
As a student of the Dharma, I would dare say that your entire journey has been precisely about the teachings of the Buddha (who, by the way was NOT a Buddhist, either)!
Observing what's going on inside ourselves, recognizing our thought and emotional patterns as conditioned and not as 'Self', the cultivation of PATIENCE, of kindness and empathy, towards ourselves and others, and the cultivation of skillful processes, both mental and behavioral, is precisely what the Buddha taught. A path toward freedom from suffering. Whatever you call yourself, you seem to have tasted it.

Hi Mindful,

Yep, you're right on the money. It has been my whole journey! I would also say that it's the reason why (over time) I've responded quite well to counselling and therapy. I find that all forms of psychoanalysis and counselling are very closely related to Buddha's teachings, I'd go as far as to say it's he, rather than guys like Freud, who is actually the real father of psychology because the principles are exactly the same, save for the fact that what the Buddha says deals with the bigger picture.

A christian once told me that the whole of his faith depends on absolute belief in the idea of the 'resurrection' and that without it the christian faith crumbles. He then went on to say that even if it was scientifically proven that the Buddha never exisited, his teachings would still stand up as truth. He's right, yet what a strange thing for a christian to say!

I'm rambling a bit now but yeah, it has made a huge difference to my life.

Narcbolan is just a silly play on words, y'know....Marc Bolan....T.rex? A bigtime narc he was.....lol
I don't need to ask what your username means!