Ecstacy (MDMA) and NPD

Before and during the 80's, experiments were conducted involving the use of psychedelics, primarily MDMA, in the treatment of psychiatric disorders. Unfortunately, research grants were cut because of the negative stigma associated with such drugs.

However, MDMA was recently approved for the treatment of posttraumatic stress disorder. Sufferers are frozen in time, not able confront and digest the trauma inflected on them. As a result they dissociate from emotion, from themselves.

Quote:

"This makes it (MDMA) a promising candidate as a tool in psychotherapy, allowing the patient to explore and examine their trauma (and accompanying emotions) without the fear and retraumatization encountered without drug. Ordinarily incapacitated by the resurgence of emotions (fear, shame, anger) attached to the trauma, subjects are rendered capable of approaching their trauma in a new and constructive way."

The patient is able to revisit parts of himself that he, without the aid of drugs, would not dare to confront.

"Further helpful in treating PTSD, is the new capacity to experience empathy and compassion for both others and the self."

I believe that sufferers of PD's dissociate in the sense that they "lock away" parts of themselves. Emotions that are too painful to handle, memories that are best forgotten. With PDs, dissociation takes place under critical developmental stages such as childhood and early adolescence, and as a result, the entire personality structure is affected. I can recall the dissociation process from my own childhood. At first I was crying, yelling, trying to make it (insert trauma) stop. But when it happened again and again, I realized that I was powerless. I had to escape, and there was nowhere to escape but inside of myself.

In the most severe cases, I presume drugs would be of little help. But for those who never quite lost the battle with their false selves, for those who never forgot what life is really like, I can see how a treatment protocal involving the use of "love drugs" would have potential.

Interesting. Might be worth trying.

As for myself, I smoke weed from time to time. On some stoned occasions, I feel like a little boy again. Maybe that's my under-developed True Self? I also feel like I'm very honest to myself as well as the others and I feel that when I talk I sound very naive.

I never got high enough to experience ego loss though ... I wonder what's gonna be left if an egomaniac losses his ego? A maniac?

stoic narcissist wrote:Interesting. Might be worth trying.

As for myself, I smoke weed from time to time. On some stoned occasions, I feel like a little boy again. Maybe that's my under-developed True Self? I also feel like I'm very honest to myself as well as the others and I feel that when I talk I sound very naive.

I never got high enough to experience ego loss though ... I wonder what's gonna be left if an egomaniac losses his ego? A maniac?

I'm curious - have you been formally diagnosed with NPD? I suspect many of the self-professed narcissists on this board to be fooling themselves, and that a certain mr. Vaknin can be held responsible. In my opinion, the degree of introspection possessed by members such as yourself seems to contradict the very notion of being narcissistic. You'd be amazed by what goes inside the heads of "normal people". They all have their own problems coupled with facades that effectively hide their "dark side". Furthermore, my guess is that you are fairly young? What convinced me of having NPD was reading Vaknins frighteningly accurate descriptions of the artificial intelligence-like, robotic feeling that I know all too well. But I'll challenge you to find a single human specimen who hasn't ever felt like this. Often the symptoms and traits described by Vaknin, many of which are not specific to NPD, gradually vanish as one gets older. So unless you are 100% certain of the diagnosis, my opinion is that labeling yourself a NPD is a bad idea. Maybe your problems are largely caused by anxiety? Couple anxiety with an affinity for obsessing, and God knows what disorder you will convince yourself of having. You mentioned that you sometimes feel like your old self after smoking a joint. Maybe the relaxation provided by marijuana causes your brain to let go for once? Maybe if you found some way to relieve anxiety and stress, you'd look back at the whole "NPD period" and laugh?

I think the experience of losing ones ego would be the same for everyone. Absolutely shocking. I find Vaknins distinction between true and false selves to be absurd. Interpreting it literally is misleading, but as a metaphor it is of course very true.

No, I have not been diagnosed NPD and yes, Vaknin is the reason why I think I may have it.

The idea that Vaknin's description may be too general also crossed my mind - also when I read your first post here - you don't seem to be a typical narcissist from what you wrote and still you feel that you fit Vaknin's description. I have read about NPD elsewhere, and while I don't think I have a full-blown NPD, I still think I posses strong narcissistic traits.

The reason why I'm able of introspection is two-fold - observation of my father's personality and my interest in truth.

I think that my father is narcissistic. He rages even at a tiny amount of criticism. Everything is somebody else's fault. Even if he comes to ask for forgiveness, it is on his terms. When he's with other people, he's timid, but when's he's with my mother, he can be abusive. And I always felt like I was very similar to him. He was more of a brother to me than a father. But I perceived his shortcomings. I had them too, and tried to avoid them.

One thing in which I'm different from my father is my obsession with rules. Probably thanks to this obsession I'm a programmer now. Now since I value rules and truth very much, I was able to stick to them no matter how bad my self-introspection made me feel. It took me a couple of unhappy years to get down at the root of this.

I don't genuinely care about people, I just care about my achievements. I am a perfectionist. I am pompous, extremely touchy, my mood varies from ecstatic to suicidal based on whether my latest project was successful or not. I don't know what "love" is. My personality is inconsistent - it is dependent on who I talk to. I could go on ...

A propos ego loss: I probably incorrectly assumed that the state of ego loss implies the feeling of all-pervading love, both of which can be experienced under influence of certain drugs. Perhaps getting high into that loving state would help one learn or recall what love is?

Thanks for pointing out that "true and false selves" are a Vaknin's idea. I don't understand your point about the interpretation, though.

Sorry for the long rant, I couldn't resist it.

I popped MDMA last night and t'was wonderful. It fills the void, our absence of empathy. You should give it a try.

I'm curious whether any NPD experts on here have any scientific or anecdotal info they've come across about using MDMA to lessen NPD symptoms.

I have NPD symptoms, though not full blown NPD. All my friends and lovers have it to an extent, some of them full flown NPD. Yes, I am in the entertainment business.

My experience using MDMA over 20 times in the past 2 years is that it lessened my NPD symptoms a lot by giving me empathy for other people. It also helped me connect the dots with regard to issues that happened during childhood. Many of the pro-therapeutic effects did not happen right away. Sometimes I'd get epiphanies up to a week after taking the drug. In the days after the trip, the MDMA sort of opened up a road map to my pathology in a way that therapists never could.

I'm not saying you should run out and pop E every weekend to lessen your NPD, but it seems any drug which has been shown to create empathy could treat a disease in which the main symptom is lack of empathy.

I have read all the studies from the 1980's as well as the current studies on MAPS.ORG and they are all related to couples therapy, PTSD or end of life therapy.

Anyone have any resources or ideas?

Akamkara, do you have relationships: friends, bonds with parents, partners with whom you are sincerely intimate with?

I noticed this with my ex NPD boyfriend, the unbeliveable change when he would take MDMA or amphetamines (speed).

He would become this loving, warm and caring person, he would stay close to me the whole time, hug me all the time and randomly tell nice things. I am 100% certain he feels things while taking this specific drug.The change is amazing. But he's avoiding MDMA, because he doesn't like losing control, while taking speed makes him feel warm inside but also allows him to keep everything under control. He got mad at me when I told him how he seems so much more emotional while on drugs and started defending himself.

But, from what I see, it's only a short-term solution, as soon as the effects fade away, he becomes extremely annoyed and drained (like most of people), also the next couple of days, I also got the feeling it's making his NPD traits more severe.

What exactly would be the therapy using speed or ecstays? Should I try talking to him about certain topics while on drugs? He would never accept going to psychologist.

Still trying to find ways to manipulate him into showing you affection?

You're a piece of work.

narc_magnet wrote:Still trying to find ways to manipulate him into showing you affection?

You're a piece of work.

Hahaha . I do like to play, I admit. Maybe I also have some narcissistic traits?
But this is not about me, it's about him. When he takes the drug, he'd feel safe, and calm and happy. Somehow, at peace. He didn't feel empty, he liked himself, he felt a connection with others.
Yep, I do wish it was his permanent state, with or without me in his life.