The other as ideal maternal figure

Who comes to a psychology forum without an expectation of "mommy issues?" What, anyway, is a topic on a psychology forum without incestuous undertones?

Narcissists and others diagnosed with Cluster B disorders are known for their difficulty establishing and maintaining boundaries in relationships. This often results in relationships that contain elements from types of relationships that are usually considered mutually exclusive. In a less general case, I find that many narcissistic and non-narcissistic men alike report difficulty in their relationships because of their experiences interacting with, or direct intervention by, their narcissistic mothers.

I find that this is an element in my relationships: I relate to the female other as parent, be the relationship romantic or otherwise. I sometimes have fantasies about my love interests treating me in a maternal way; I imagine them stroking my hair or giving me affectionate kisses; sometimes they bathe me or I suck on their breasts. I love it when a woman cares for me, and I go absolutely nuts when a woman feeds me. I feel safer nowhere else than with my head in a woman's lap; I love to think about how the origin of life lies just beneath her surface; I love her warmth. To me, a woman's lap is measureless and radiant expanse.

This isn't at the front of my mind often; mostly when it's relevant to a woman in my life or I observe art containing such themes. My impetus today is the film Boogie Nights. A great film by any measure; generous reviews and a thoroughly characterized performance by an ensemble cast if ever there was one. My particular interest is the relationship between Eddie (Mark Wahlberg) and Maggie (Julianne Moore.) Obviously some characterization is in order.

In the late 1970s, Eddie is a 17-year-old dishwasher at a Los Angeles nightclub when he is approached by film director Jack Horner (Burt Reynolds) and offered a job as a pornographic actor. At first he is reluctant because he doesn't want to disappoint his boss and is afraid of his parents' potential perceptions. Despite initial rejection, Jack persists in his efforts. Eddie comes home very late one night after partying with Jack, and his mother is waiting for him. Eddie's mother is a critical, puritanical woman with high expectations who shies away from the affections of her family. She confronts him about his unconventional lifestyle, interrogates him about his lovers, and criticizes his intelligence and moral integrity. Completely enraged, he leaves home, moves in with Jack and Maggie, adopts the stage name Dirk Diggler, and begins a career as an actor.

Maggie, also known by her stage name Amber Waves, is a pornographic actress who is estranged from her husband and son. Although she wants to be in their lives, her husband prevents it at every turn due to her unconventional career and lifestyle, and her history of substance abuse. I would argue that her main conflict is the reconciliation of her love for her identity and her love of family. Throughout the story, as a result of her experience, her natural maternal instincts, and her longing to be reunited with her family, she fulfills the roles of surrogate parent and mentor for two major characters including Eddie.

That is the context.

Eddie's first day of work arrives. Conveniently, the plot of the film within the film is a series of auditions for a pornographic film. This opens the door for all sorts of dual meaning and self-referential commentary. The scene will soon begin and Maggie and Eddie have a short casual conversation:

Maggie: Do you want to practice your lines with me?

Eddie: No. I know it.

Maggie: You look great, honey.

Eddie: Thanks.

Eddie: Does [Jack] want me to keep going until I come?

Maggie: Yeah. You just come when you're ready.

Eddie: Where should I do it?

Maggie: Where do you want?

Eddie: Wherever you tell me.

Maggie: Come on my tits. If you can, OK? Just pull it out and do it on my stomach and my tits.

Eddie: Yeah. No problem.

Maggie: Are you all right, honey?

Eddie: This is great. I'm fine. I just want to do good. I just want it to be really good. Is it OK if I really try to make it look sexy? Would that be OK?

Maggie: Great. (smiling)

You can see Maggie's maternal behavior beginning to shine here: she is concerned about his feelings, addresses him with terms of endearment, and encourages him to act on his creative impulses. An important thing to note is how he tries to meet her expectations by asking her, among other things, where to ejaculate. Then, by first giving him a choice, Maggie demonstrates her openness and reasonable expectations about Eddie's performance.

Maggie plays the interviewer and Eddie the interviewee, the scene begins, and they engage in intercourse under the pretext of an audition. The entire cast and crew are captivated by the sight of them making love, and before they know it they've used an entire magazine of film. Then:

Kurt (the cinematographer): We've rolled out.

Bill (a crew member; to Jack): We gotta change mags.

Jack: Do it quickly.

Bill (to Maggie and Eddie): Kids.

Eddie: Is everything cool?

Bill: It's going great. We just got to change the angle.

Eddie: Does it look sexy?

Bill: It's great.

Maggie: You're doing so good, Dirk.

Eddie: Does it feel good?

*Maggie smiles wistfully.*

Jack: Roll sound, Scotty.

Jack: Speed. Quiet. Sticks. Marker.

Jack: We're back. Action, kids.

Maggie: We're going to go down now.

*Eddie starts to move to perform cunnilingus on Maggie.*

Maggie: No. Do it again.

*Maggie and Eddie lie down on the office desk.*

Maggie: John, you're a wonderful actor. You're amazing.

Eddie: You feel so good, Amber.

Maggie: You ready to come?

*Eddie nods.*

Maggie: Come in me.

Eddie: What?

Maggie: Don't worry. I'm fixed.

Maggie: I want you to come in me.

Eddie: Oh, God.

*Maggie and Eddie orgasm together. They kiss and smile.*

Jack: Wonderful. Cut. Terrific!

Maggie continues her maternal role. She offers positive reinforcement and compliments. When she says, "John, you're a wonderful actor," clearly she is referring to Eddie's character in the explicit sense. Yet because it is production of film within film (within film ), this can have a dual meaning; she could also be implicitly validating his lifestyle and performance. Eddie also adopts more of a childlike role during this interaction. He seeks approval of his sexual performance, almost with the same tone that a son uses when he seeks approval from his mother for something as mundane as a drawing or a school assignment. Eddie is primed to fulfill this role well for Maggie because the irreconcilable nature of her conflict is not an issue with Eddie. Although Maggie's lifestyle is fundamentally sexualized, Eddie is sexually available, has no innocence to steal, accepts her countercultural identity, and is able to fulfill her maternal needs. When she tells him to ejaculate inside of her, I see this as the ultimate juxtaposition between the characters of Maggie and Eddie's mother. Whereas Eddie's mother had unrealistic expectations and rejected all affection, Maggie has consistently validated Eddie. When Eddie comments on the pleasurable sensation of Maggie's genitals ("You feel so good, Amber"), I think that he's saying, both literally and figuratively, that he has found goodness and openness in her that was always absent in his mother. This marks the end of his anxiety towards intimacy with Maggie, and as a reward, Maggie explicitly invites his affection by asking him to ejaculate inside of her. By winning his affection, Maggie demonstrates that her identity does not preclude her value as a maternal figure. They have validated one another as mother and as son. Briefly, they are the ideal antitheses of the grim reality of one another's relationships. All of that symmetry, that contrast, those primeval emotions and relationship dynamics; I thought it was an absolutely beautiful scene.

What do you guys think about it? Maybe I just love MILFs.

In conclusion, are parent-child relationship dynamics an element in your relationships, romantic or otherwise? I'd especially be interested to hear what makes someone want to fulfill a parental role rather than a childlike role, as this is rarely discussed in my experience.

Wow, what an interesting post.

To be honest, I've played "the mother they never had" more times that I can count. Stroking their hair, giving them positive reinforcement, appraisal, letting them cry in my lap... you name it.

The reason for this? Probably because I'm a narcissist myself. I get my NS by "fixing" broken men and I think that it's actually a pretty good (although we all know it won't last) short-term combination. To dig deeper, I think it all began in my childhood (you don't say) when I was constantly taking care of my narcissistic mother.

I've been in a relationships with men who don't have mommy issues and the truth is that I felt worthless. They didn't need my help, my nurturing love, my "fixing". Therefore, I couldn't get my narcissistic supply and left.

So, to answer your question specifically: parent-child dynamics are more than common when it comes to relationships, especially between two narcissists.

DG

Dissolved_Girl wrote:Wow, what an interesting post.

To be honest, I've played "the mother they never had" more times that I can count. Stroking their hair, giving them positive reinforcement, appraisal, letting them cry in my lap... you name it.

The reason for this? Probably because I'm a narcissist myself. I get my NS by "fixing" broken men and I think that it's actually a pretty good (although we all know it won't last) short-term combination. To dig deeper, I think it all began in my childhood (you don't say) when I was constantly taking care of my narcissistic mother.

I've been in a relationships with men who don't have mommy issues and the truth is that I felt worthless. They didn't need my help, my nurturing love, my "fixing". Therefore, I couldn't get my narcissistic supply and left.

So, to answer your question specifically: parent-child dynamics are more than common when it comes to relationships, especially between two narcissists.

DG

Great post, DG. It was insightful and I'm glad to hear from someone who prefers to assume a parental role for once.

I had an ill mother as a child. She received chemotherapy for hepatitis C and her condition declined considerably. The doctor gave her six months, but she's still alive, although now she has stage 4 melanoma that's metastasized to her lymph nodes.

Am I correct in assuming that your mother was ill as well?

I've had a few fantasties about looking after a lad I admire like a Mum would. I've imagined pushing food in his mouth. Changing his clothes.

I imagine myself relaxed in a relationship being treated as an inanimate object. Carried around by him while I never say a word. I imagine him babying me and touching me all the time. And rubbing my ass. Sometimes roughly. When I was hearing scary sleep paralysis stuff at night I felt I needed him to come on top of me in the nude. But no sex.

pope de sir poupee de son (living doll)?

ofc there's more than one role for the partner
and ofc lots of ppl wiht a pd have maternal problems when growing up
if that's to prominent get therapy

ps i love milfs
the shape
the skill and the attitude
+it's more fun if it's taboo
+ it's more fun if you have to sneak around because she's got a husband (or you are the same age as her son /daughter)

it's more fun if you have to sneak around because she's got a husband

iznt dat how u got fked in the hed in da frist place?
(sayn cuz its true)

Some people (who I consider) with NPD were/are able to wake up the deepest maternal instinct in me.

Besides their impressive aspect (very rich or elegant or intellectual), they seem so deeply needy for love and so vulnerable.

It's something really strong. It's difficult to sort one's own feelings in such a situation.


btw : thank you to all the posters and particularly the people who consider themselves NPD - the forum is really interesting.


(sorry for the mistakes in english)

When a woman gives me a head massage i instantly fall asleep.

Philonoe wrote:Some people (who I consider) with NPD were/are able to wake up the deepest maternal instinct in me.

Besides their impressive aspect (very rich or elegant or intellectual), they seem so deeply needy for love and so vulnerable.

It's something really strong. It's difficult to sort one's own feelings in such a situation.


btw : thank you to all the posters and particularly the people who consider themselves NPD - the forum is really interesting.


(sorry for the mistakes in english)

Your English seems fine to me!

So I see it's possible to become unconsciously swept up in the narcissist's maternal fantasy as well, even when one is not consciously seeking to fulfill a maternal role.

Ember wrote:

Dissolved_Girl wrote:Wow, what an interesting post.

To be honest, I've played "the mother they never had" more times that I can count. Stroking their hair, giving them positive reinforcement, appraisal, letting them cry in my lap... you name it.

The reason for this? Probably because I'm a narcissist myself. I get my NS by "fixing" broken men and I think that it's actually a pretty good (although we all know it won't last) short-term combination. To dig deeper, I think it all began in my childhood (you don't say) when I was constantly taking care of my narcissistic mother.

I've been in a relationships with men who don't have mommy issues and the truth is that I felt worthless. They didn't need my help, my nurturing love, my "fixing". Therefore, I couldn't get my narcissistic supply and left.

So, to answer your question specifically: parent-child dynamics are more than common when it comes to relationships, especially between two narcissists.

DG

Great post, DG. It was insightful and I'm glad to hear from someone who prefers to assume a parental role for once.

I had an ill mother as a child. She received chemotherapy for hepatitis C and her condition declined considerably. The doctor gave her six months, but she's still alive, although now she has stage 4 melanoma that's metastasized to her lymph nodes.

Am I correct in assuming that your mother was ill as well?

Thank you for the positive words, there are few people in this forum who don't seem hostile. But I guess that's the price you pay for being a narcissist who's opening up to other narcissists.

Anyway, back to the topic. My mom has had severe paranoia and, of course, NPD for many years (perhaps even before I was born). She even refused to go to work because she felt she was too grandiose compared to the other stupid, mediocre people around her who actually have a job. It took me 25 years to realize that she was like a little spoiled child and all my efforts throughout these years were to satisfy her needs. Now that I'm an adult, many other questions come to mind: Do I need to "fix" people because of her? Do I try to "fix" them so I don't have to look at myself? Do I want to feel like the mother figure in a relationship because it gives me sense of power and control?

I guess I'm still looking for the answers