RevengE

I have a few questions that I really really would like some genuine answers from those with narcissistic personalities. I am new on here, but I do not want to go to some support group and hear how much better off im gonna be now/how strong I am yada yada yada. I want to understand the truth from your perspective, the way you feel when you do certain things you do. I gotta blab about my experience and Im sure no narcissist will read since its not about you, but just pretend it is and itll be a lesson in empathy.

Im in a little bit of a state of shock right now... I have been thinking obsessively about my last few relationships, the last of which has completely demoralized me. I researched and came to the realization that my parents were most likely Ns, which is something I wanted to remain naive about. I took care of my sick mother growing up and she would be verbally abusive the entire time- course i thought she was just cranky and didnt take it personally. My father is emotionally constipated and you have to do backflips to get his attention. I say these things lightly because I LOVE my parents through and through, but it never occurred to me that they might not love me. This is probably why my last 3 relationships, all of which I was hesitant, careful, my trust was earned, i fell in love and it felt real and all and then ended with that awesome punchline you guys throw in at the end- how you dont care or feel or whatever, who cares, anyway...

My last relationship was with someone I was good friends with for a year, like hung out almost every day...never any sign of over the top selfishness, his moods seemed consistent, we had fun we were hilarious together. He was a bit younger and he started flirting a bit which i resisted because of age, but he charmed me. he seemed genuine, I even caught him sleeping with a sweater i left at his place when we first started dating cuz it smelled like me, and he got embarrassed, which i didnt know narcissists got nervous and embarrassed. long and the short is that even though i was diagnosed with CPTSD from former relationships, I was careful and took the time and trusted him fully. We never fight, we have fun, sex was awesome. I actually feel that subtle healing feeling that love gives you, where it sort of washes away some of your bitterness from the past. So we decide to move in together, then he loses his job and so I start paying rent for us- no big deal- we always reciprocated so i wasnt worried. Anyhow I know how relationship details can get lengthy so basically fast forward to the end where he randomly leaves me, after I have spent most my savings on our cohabitation, he dumps me because he says I did it to control him. then says he wont let me get in the way of his dreams, my money is my problem. I go into histerics please dont so this- why are you saying these things to me...he coldly says "figure it out" and cuts me off completely. silent treatment. all the built up damage is killing me inside. He starts exhibiting all the usual signs and i get that familiar surge of adrenaline and shock and excrutiating ache in my heart. He is entirely delusional- he really is angry at me, he HATES me- for whatever reason he made up in his head...

Do Ns actually believe the stuff that comes out of their mouth..these absurd reasons for things. The ones that Non Ns spend years confused and doubting themselves because we must be crazy if we have absolutly no memory of being as horrible as you believe we are OUT OF NOWHERE

I know nS dont understand the trauma that this kind of thing causes for people- or never really consider it- maybe it amuses you. If you dont care for the other, why even bother to be SO inhumanly cruel.


Does the fact that I had already been through hell in the past with others- which was mentioned the previous year during our friendship- does that make me all the more fun to knock the wind out of.

So many non Ns including me dont understand they way the beginning looks, feels, seems, so genuinly trustworthy and real...Put the ego aside and tell me you really feel nothing in the beginning

And also- im sorry i really dont get it- I cannot wrap my head around what is so difficult about understanding empathy. Im not trying to be a smartass but honestly just remember the way something feels, imagine thats what someone else feels in a similar situation, if you dont care about them, why is it so difficult to realize that from a logical standpoint it doesnt even make sense to want another peron to feel bad.

Most important question...do you ever fear revenge. After reading the stuff about N parents, and getting knocked down and struggling to get back up 3X in a row by Ns, I feel different than I have ever felt. I feel rage this time. The idea that I may have never been loved by any of the people I have loved feels like Im in some kinda nightmare- and the ones responsible dont feel a thing. I want revenge on this last guy. Im not a violent person, im pretty shy, i dont even care i fantasize about recruiting a couple huge weightlifters from a 24 hour fitness and giving them each a few hundred to go make him hurt after he dumps on me as if its my job to carry all his pain- then he deserves it.

i guess im just curious if Ns ever think this stuff will bite them in the bum.

I understand that Ns have this larger than life idea of themselves, or that others are pathetic and dont measure up, probably think nobody would mess with them, but thats the thing THATS YOUR PERSONALITY DISORDER not reality.. I dont mean to be rude but if you pick vulnerable people who have been hurt time and time again, wouldnt it be logical to think one of those people isnt gonna wanna be your joke anymore...somebody is gonna want you to hurt too,

Anywasy- I rambled- Ill be suprized if i get a response. if i do im grateful, not even sure that whole mind-dump made sense

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It's quite hard to explain to someone on the outside exactly what is going on because, for an N, there's as much self deception going on as there is deception on the part of a partner.

On one level you could say that whatever we use as some kind of justification for our behaviour in any given situation is something that we we fully think we believe at that point in time - if that makes any sense? As well as telling you that 'black is white', we're telling ourselves that as well, the only difference is that you're more aware we're doing it than we are.

We're on the defensive all the time and we will do anything to stop ourselves feeling vulnerable. Quite reasonable except that our sense of being made to feel vulnerable is not based in the present.

The whole pattern of things seeming so idyllic at the start of relationship then turning as the relationship develops is so common. The reason for this is that as a relationship grows, both people become more intimately involved. The more intimately involved we all get, the more intimate parts of our own back stories come into play.

For someone with NPD the problems with intimacy and emotional honesty come more and more to the surface as a relationship deepens. Many of us have been brought up with a confused 'devaluing and over idealising pattern' from one or more of our parents and unlike so called nons, we have absorbed a lot of our parents behaviour as children too, so it's a constant unconcsious battle.

A lot of us really want closeness, so we go out of our way to attract someone, but we don't realise that getting close to someone, and the emotional responsiblities that that involves, will trigger all the negative feelings that we associate with closeness based on our childhood, and we blame the trigger, not the source because we've been brought up not to express ourselves in healthy way.


If you bear that in mind, how could we empathic? Yet the idea that N disordered people have no empathy is not true. All humans are emapthic, but it needs to be mirrored and learnt as we develop and grow up. If our parents are unable to do this then we can't develop it properly.

As to your last point, some other N people won't like this being said, but behind every inflated, grandiose persona is someone with an unrecognised sense of low self esteem. This is basically a compensatory thing.

The revenge thing is something you need to look at as it will eat you up. Try to find a way to work through the feelings that your ex has left you with otherwise moving on will be very difficult.

thank you for response. makes more sense.

do you think if a narcissist strongly dislikes his mom he will transfer that onto women. i felt like N described his anger with me and it sounded like he was taqlking about his mom. at the time it was hard to see how he didnt notice he was talking about her, not me

your right about revenge- heat of the moment. its ptsd, it comes in waves of adrenaline and feels like the night he dumped me all over agzin- shortly thereafter i bought a dog, for the non conditional love aspect- Id recommend it to Ns and Non Ns- its a good concept for both to grasp emotionally. my dog is the love of my life and puppies dont devalue and discard...not yet anyways

thanks again for taking questions seriously

No problem, for someone in your position these questions are very serious indeed.

In answer to your mother question i sort of outlined it when i talked about blaming the trigger and not the source.

The real problems occur because we've been brought up in an emotionally dishonest environment where we're discouraged from expressing anything that runs counter to what our parents want us to express. Therefore any expression of anger, hurt, upset or indignation is not allowed because it triggers our parents, and so on....

So when a man has very negative feelings towards his mother but is not permitted to express them in childhood, they are no longer even recognised by himeself. So of course any woman that he is involved with is going to get it all - he has no control over something he doesn't know himself.

For example I definitely stopped acting out in this way once i realised the full extent of my situation with my mother and worked on it in my therapy. But I'm ashamed to say that in the past more than one partner has commented that they don't think I like women, I had no idea what they were talking about!!!!

I posted a very lengthy response about this on my topic "any N's out there scared of themselves". you might like to read that if you already haven't.

About the empathy issue. I can have empathy, but its learned empathy. Like you said wondering why if we go through the same things why we cant understand. I have had times when I have been through a specific traumatic event and experienced how I felt and then someone I know has the same thing happen to them then I can experience empathy to some degree, but I will assume they felt the way I did. I assume all people deal with things differently. Like I don't get bothered much by any deaths that have occurred thus far in my family, so because of that I cant have empathy for that but I know from learned behaviors and common sense that a death is usually very traumatic so I can still be there for someone if I choose and feel concern for them.

Cognitive dissonance and delusion. Yes, we really do believe our own hype.

Well, that's the short, pre-awareness answer at least.

I find these explanations so helpful. I recently got out of a very short but intense relationship with an N. I joined another online support group, but there is so much hatred and anger and all-or-nothing thinking that I'm not sure it's helping me. Those discussions seem to inflame me more than anything else.

My N did the cycle with me, but even at his worst during devaluation/discard, if I texted or messaged a question, he would respond right away and cordially (for example, when I asked after his mother following a surgical procedure). It was only when I pushed love things (sending him a poem, something we used to do) that he went silent. He never said or did malicious things to me...just the silent treatment and the I love you but now I'm not contacting you kinds of games. I know these things are cruel, but I don't want to hold onto anger for someone who is disordered and unaware of it.

The people on the other site are telling me to go NC and delete and block him on Facebook, but other than ending our relationship in a head-gamey and not-quite-adult way, he hasn't done anything to warrant that. We are involved in mutual groups, so I'd like to just keep things peaceful and cordial. I've made no attempt to contact him for a month, nor do I plan to. I also don't look at his facebook page, and I hide most of my posts from him.

So I guess my question is are Ns capable of having cordial public relationships with people they're discarded? I don't want him back (no desire to repeat that), but I also don't want unnecessary drama and tension.

im not an N- at least i dont think i am- but my response to that would be that you dont want to put yourself in a situation where he is around you at all- without even knowing it Ns have a way of playing little games to see if you still have a response to him. he will bait you, and if you still have feelings for him in the least he will tease you enough to get you to show it and then dissapear. that is my experience. they have no empathy in the sense that it matters more to them to see what reactions they can get out of you more than they give a rats ass about what it is doing to you- they have zero concept of what these things do to you.

if your guy is sidestepping the love issue but still being cordial- you may not have an N, or you may who knows...Ns in my experience through ignoring or sarcastic fremarks let you know you arent valued anymore...subtle insults. its like they figured out and your no longer on their level. it really is cruel after youve been in a relationship.

commitmentphobes on the otherhand are pretty nice they just dont know how to tell you they lost interest and hope if they sidestep the issue and hope you drop it. passive aggressive and stupid. either way you have a right to be angry and in my opinion he no longer gets the benefit of your being cordial, or your presence. No contact is to get you the hell away from them cuz they will make anybody feel like garbage. its what they do.

I think this is quite funny lol but since you're not being ignorant, rather more so asking questions, I'll answer, in no particular order

1) Life sucks, life will kick you till you're on the ground screaming stop. Life doesn't stop. Narcissistic parents are sort of the same, I hit the jackpot and got an awesome mother but that doesn't seem so in your case. I'm glad you can forgive someone so easily BUT you'll attract predators that way, won't you?

2) Your ex-boyfriend sounded like one of those idiot narcissists. "figure it out"? You'd expect a good guilt trip on how you had been so ego-centric, never listening to such needs that a heart desires or even shed tears for his bleeding soul! But nope, a stupid narcissist, idiots eh, don't even be worried about intellectual failures. Get a new boyfriend if not, take some time to chill out. The dating arena will always be there, especially if your hot

3) Yup. I make up some of the most stupid $#%^ from time to time and believe every word. Why? I don't know.

4) People can be like puppets, it's funny pulling strings. Although do expect some Ns to at the very least try to love significant others.

5) I feel lots of fleeting emotions. Lack of empathy doesn't make me a robot now does it? My emotions are just of a 6 year old.

6) Empathy is a choice. Narcissists get bored of you and want a laugh, that's a decision.

7) Fantasies are what your heart wants! Go get 'em gym boys!

Lolwhat? Larger than life? No, no, no... haha

9) Mind dumps never make real sense.