Don't think this is MSBP, but what is it?

I am concerned about my sister in law, and my two nephews. Whilst I do think that she does genuinely love my nephews and would do anything to avoid them getting hurt, there is something not quite right about her behaviour in relation to the children's health.

One of my nephews has a genuine (common and manageable) medical condition however having had this diagnosis confirmed by a medical professional and appropriate treatment advised, she has decided to use alternative therapies instead. She also gives these therapies to my other nephew, who does not have any medical conditions diagnosed. Both boys are on a cocktail of 10+ vitamin and mineral supplements and herbal remedies, and the one with a medical condition does not receive the conventional treatment that is known to help his condition in many people. The last few times I have seen him, his condition seems to be getting worse rather than better.

In addition my nephew has tested positive for multiple food allergies, however my sister in law feeds him food containing these allergens frequently, which may also be affecting his medical condition. However she excludes different foods he is not allergic to from both his and his brother's diets, saying they are the cause of his medical condition.

She takes both boys to an alternative medical practitioner on a frequent basis, forcing them to have unpleasant blood tests before feeding them more and more pills and potions. I think she genuinely believes that they are both ill and she is making them better, which is why I don't think this is MSBP. But I don't know what it is. Hypochondria by proxy?

Firstly welcome. I am sorry you find yourself here, but hopefully we can give you some guidance and if not some food for thought.

From what you described I will say .. possibly. Now that is a huge call, which should not be taken without further evaluation.

It is possible she is not. She may have some strong unconventional health beliefs. There are many out there who for many different reasons do not believe in main stream medicine. You need to consider this first. What does she do for her own health. Are her own health practices mainstream, or along some other less accepted lines. What other interests has she got what is her diet and exercise like. All these are indicators.

Now if it is MBP, there are usually other things involved. MBP is accompanied by the carer often martyring themselves." Poor Mrs X. her children are so sick . She cares for them night and day, I don't know how she does it."

They crave attention and often when their children are the sickest, almost seem to " glow" . There is often one person this demand for attention is directed at, often their mother of father, but very seldom the husband. They are usually not in a loving relationship with their husband. They may hate him, or just not care. They can sometimes be quite brutal to the children behind closed doors. Really have no love for their children.

They often have a fixation with medicine or doctors. Often are very smart. AND often show signs of Munchausen themselves (this is not hypochondria).

It often involves some level of poisoning. A good MBP is seldom caught when children are young, they are usually very good at it, so I don't expect you to find any signs of it.

The important thing is THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG, ..IT IS NOT MISGUIDED JUDGEMENT, THEY KNOW FULL WELL IT IS WRONG AND GET PLEASURE OUT OF FOOLING THE MEDICAL SYSTEM AND OTHERS.

I will think some more, but right now from what you have given me is " Maybe".

They are different anti-system belief, sometimes you can read on journals: "Mother let the son die because she believed tumor vanish by itself".

See for instance Dr Hamer

Hi DuskyDays, what you describe is somewhat similar to a behavior I see in one of my adult family members who cares for a child family member. The child has some genuine health problems, but I suspect some are also being embellished or fabricated. The adult family member seems to relish the role of caring for the sick child, and to relish the idea of the child being subjected to multiple, painful medical procedures. And also similar to what you described, with a food allergen condition, the adult doesn't manage the child's diet as one would expect given the condition.

Having read a bunch of MSBP accounts, this sounds too mild to really be it. But I agree, it is "something"... what is it? Feel free to PM me, or if anyone reading this thread has an idea I would love more info. One characteristic of my family environment is that it's historically been high-conflict and dysfunctional, but none of the behaviors fully register on the "abuse" checklists. This medical thing seems to be along those same lines.

With MBP as with many things there is a scale. Some cases are clear but I am thinking that the vast majority fit into the "could be, but maybe not.

I think in this case, or both cases it is in the could be, but too hard to call. I am also reluctant to call someone MBP as it is basically criminal behaviour, unless there is a very detailed description of what is happening.

The good news is that in almost all MBP cases as the child gets older it becomes impossible to manipulate what is happening and in most cases the child will return to full health.

Extreme beliefs in health, dysfunctional families, can all camouflage what is really going on.

A couple of things with the MBPs I am sure of is, that the mother is narcissistic. Has an unusual relationship with husband. He may be gone, he may work very long hours with little home life. He may be away in the military. Whatever he is, he is not the classic middle of the range dad. If you can dig deep enough there is often one person who this is aimed at. It can the father or the husband. Sometimes with the data available you cannot tell.