how to have a successful relationship with an HPD

[TRIGGER WARNING FOR PWHPD OR OTHER SENSITIVE PEOPLE. SINCE THIS THREAD IS CONCERNED WITH RELATIONSHIPS AND EXPRESSION OF RELATIONSHIP CONFLICTS BY THE PARTNERS OF PWHPD, IT HAS BEEN MOVED TO THE SIGNIFICANT OTHERS, FAMILY AND FRIENDS FORUM]

I've been with my current girlfriend (who has really pretty bad HPD) for 14 months, which is actually my longest relationship ever. I see a lot of people on this forum who don't understand how to deal with people with HPD and as such get deeply hurt by their relationships with them. It's quite easy to deal with them if you understand how to control them, so I thought I'd put some information on how to do it here so you guys can benefit.

Firstly, I'll preface this with admitting I have an advantage - I'm a psychopath (though I don't admit it outside of the anonymity of the internet). This makes it very easy to read and manipulate people. Thus, some of the techniques I employ might seem unsavory to you, but trust me, people with HPD aren't normal, and if you don't exercise control on them you can't have a stable relationship with them.

The most important thing in a relationship with someone with HPD is control - they will try to emotionally manipulate you into being dependent on their affection, and they're pretty good at it. Thus, you have to try and take control of the relationship yourself and make sure you're the dominant partner - this may not seem like a "healthy" thing to do, but given that they are trying to do it themselves, you need to head that off by essentially putting them in their place. It's very easy to control them - they are desperate for validation, so you dole it out in little bits to reward them falling under your control, slowly, so they don't understand quite what's happening. Once that happens, they very quickly become dependent on you for their self-worth, so you can virtually tell them what to do. Fortunately, at that point, you can choose not to exercise that control - once it's established you're basically in the clear and can let more "normal" relationship dynamics evolve.

Secondly, you need to maintain a certain level of emotional detachment at first and let it develop more over time. The essential "strategy" that people with HPD use is to get you to fall in love with them too quickly and irrationally, exploiting the fact that most people are desperate to fall in love. While I'm not the kind of person who can really claim to know too much about "love", given the way I experience emotions is radically different from the way most people do, I see it as largely forced on us by society. We are indoctrinated by media, the people around us, and even the very way society is structured to think that we are MEANT to fall in love and marry someone, and as a result, people desperately want to find it, idealizing it far too much for something that's essentially just an evolutionary strategy for allowing children to be raised properly. In a relationship with someone with HPD, you're going to have to AVOID falling head over heels with the person, because that gives them all the power, since on some level their emotions are closer to mine than yours. With them, attachment means a lot more than love, though I'm not sure if "normal" people get that distinction. Thus, over time, you can have a genuine relationship that can develop into something truly loving, if you avoid getting into the emotional vortex people with HPD create. The manner in which they seduce people means that relationships start off too idealized for either partner, and as such the relationship can only sour after that, which means that the incessantly flightly HPD partner will end up seeking satisfaction elsewhere.

I'm too bored to continue right now and this is a pretty big wall of text, but if people think this is helpful I can throw more in.

Yeah go ahead. My biggest problem according to my HPD bestfriend/hookup for about 8 years now is that she said. (we recently stopped talking due to her clowning around) was that I didn't compliment her enough and she didn't trust me enough. I would say I am like you in the since that I don't like to give compliments and throw around mushy $#%^ to her. The problem is although I didn't say how I felt she still knew she had the power. She knew I was in love with her. Yet, I would not verbalize it until crunch time. My question to you is this. Mind you we haven't had sex in a long ass time, although she was my first. (So that may have something to do with it because we all know women once they have sex women get crazy in the head.) Anyways, my question to you is, do you give her mushy compliments at all or do you play "cool man" and give her one once in a blue moon. She said my lack of communication with my feelings, not being trustful to say whatever is on her mind (have no clue why she thinks that, and I don't compliment her (aka give her the attention she needs) makes it hard for her to date me. "The two boyfriends I loved gave me that." "You for some reason don't." It seems like you are more like me, although I don't like to manipulate I don't like to compliment and be a douchy guy. I am having trouble understanding what the hell she is thinking. Or if it is all smoke and mirrors.

The thing with HPD's I have noticed, If you really want to play the game again. They will let you, although you better be prepared because they will test the $#%^ out of you to see if you have changed or not. AKA Find out whether you are still a pansy/head over heels push over.

Actually for you it should be easier. What you should do is express your love relatively infrequently, but to reward things that you approve of. Think about affection as a dog biscuit for training a dog, almost. They pathologically need it, so if you give them barely enough, but just enough, they'll keep coming back for more and giving you more affection to get some in return. In the end, they'll probably end up genuinely caring for you a lot.

I see. Yeah I had never figured that out. I saw a text from when she had a long term boyfriend "thanking her for visiting him." At the time I thought, wow what a douche bag, this guy is thanking his GIRLFRIEND for visiting him...... Until now. I realize, that's what she needed. Took me this long to figure that out and had to get spoon fed the information. Better late than never I guess. Although who knows if were actually going to talk again. Least I have this golden nugget if we do.

Your wall of text was informative. You're spot on with having to avoid them gaining emotional control over you at all costs.

I'd be interested in reading more of your experiences and observations. When you say you're a 'psychopath', what exactly do you mean? I'm assuming some variant of AsPD?

insincerity - your post is very informative.

However, your post seems to concentrate on only one aspect of the relationship with an HPD - the "seduction".

t's very easy to control them - they are desperate for validation, so you dole it out in little bits to reward them falling under your control, slowly, so they don't understand quite what's happening. Once that happens, they very quickly become dependent on you for their self-worth, so you can virtually tell them what to do.

Seduction to gain control by intermittent reward and infrequent expression of love is something that would probably work with any insecure woman (or man), not just an HPD, from my experience. It can also work with a person who is not basically insecure but is going through an insecure phase in life - loss of job, marriage, family or friends, etc.

Frankly, this is something I did with my HPD, initially, and obviously it worked. However, I didn't intentionally do it to manipulate or control. I was forced to do it because I realized a few weeks into our relationship that this is what works. In many ways I kept on doing this for almost 2 years (a long time, huh) until I got burnt out, since this is not normal for me.

Fortunately, at that point, you can choose not to exercise that control - once it's established you're basically in the clear and can let more "normal" relationship dynamics evolve.

This I am not so sure about, because what you probably mean by normal might not be normal to everyone else. I don't think normal dynamics evolve at any stage. Nor does genuine caring (as normal people understand) actually happen - the caring that happens from an HPD is to keep the supply of attention and validation coming - it is a form of manipulation again.

I think, the problems that we (normals) face with an HPD relationship, are the other aspects of a relationship, besides seduction:

1. Intimacy - the normal person in a relationship would like to build true intimacy beyond the seduction and honeymoon phase. This true intimacy involves honesty, trust and the ability to become vulnerable to your partner. However, this is not possible with an unaware HPD, since bringing down the defensive walls means full exposure which is weird/frightening for an HPD. It removes the fantasy and brings in reality into the relationship, which an HPD desperately tries to avoid. Hence the relationship breaks down.

This intimacy is not about sexual intimacy. Neither is it about the mushy closeness that come from romantic expressions of love - both of which are possible with an HPD. This intimacy I am talking about is the intimacy of genuine, long-lasting and honest understanding between two partners.

2. Control - the normal person in a relationship wants to build a shared-control mechanism, not an exclusive control one. So while the HPD is busy retaining covert control via deceit, manipulation, lies, tantrums and all other forms of acting-out, the normal partner is trying to give up control and trying to create an atmosphere of collaboration. This conflict brings the relatonship down.

3. Pervasive deceit - the HPD person starts the relationship by presenting a false "good girl" mask (lets call it Mask 1) to the normal partner during the mutual idealization phase. However, when the honeymoon is over, the HPD person picks up another mask (Mask 2) that of the alternating "child-woman" and "fake-mother" which is used to manipulate the normal partner for nurturance, love and control. However, the normal person doesn't use masks - he is his normal self and so he tries to uncover his partner's mask as well - if he is intelligent he discovers that there is no normal self behind the HPD's mask. This is when he realizes that he has been deceived and will continue to be deceived. This pervasive pattern of deceit takes a toll on the relationship.

4. Continuous testing - the HPD person continuously tests her partner to make his boundaries flexible. However the normal partner doesn't do that and feels resentment over time at his boundaries being violated. This again breaks down the relationship.

5. Superficial emotions - As you rightly mentioned, an HPDs emotions are not the same as a normal's. The HPD's emotions are typically based on her introjectively projected fantasy script, not the reality outside. On the other hand, the normal's emotions are based on an integrated inner-self and the outside reality. Hence to the normal, the HPD's emotions seem over-the-top or fake - it lacks true empathy. Hence there is no genuine caring from the HPD to the normal partner - soon the normal partner experiences loneliness. The HPD is anyway a lonely person. So the relationship fails.

6. Love and ambivalence - The most important requirement for carrying forward a normal adult relationship is the ability to calm yourself and know that there will be times when your partner loves you even when there is no outward expression of love - during times of ambivalence. This an HPD can't do since it triggers her buttons of insecurity and abandonment and leads her to act out impulsively and seek attention either from the partner or from outside. She therefore constantly seeks reassurance and tests the partner - eventually torturing him to become detached and seek some solitary moment of peace in his confusion. This burns out the relationship.

7. Projection and thinking - All of us project to understand others. However there is a difference - the normal person projects his balanced feelings of essential "goodness" onto his partner, gets feedback from the outside and then adapts his inner self to react to it. The HPD person projects too but doesn't have an inner reference except a script with cardboard characters, and then their adaptation to feedback from the outside is impaired as well. So effecting a compromise and reaching a solution becomes impossible in a normal-HPD relationship. The normal is left forever projecting and hoping that his HPD partner will give up the destructive ways and become better, whereas the HPD is forever projecting the script inside their heads and trying to validate and run it. There is a clash of their goals - the normal person wants to get rid of the destructive histrionic behavior in his partner, whereas the HPD person tries to keep that behavior intact and run it according to the script.

I understand that you (since you say you are a psychopath) probably don't view it from the perspective I have mentioned above, but the fact is that most of us consciously or unconsciously do - hence our problems with an HPD relationship.

Frankly, its very easy to seduce an HPD - just provide attention during a time when she is not getting it elsewhere and she will fall for you - she is very easily suggestible. Seduction is not an issue for many of us - since the HPD is ready to be seduced anyways. A normal person or a psychopath - as long as you can supply her the attention she needs and play her fantasy script, its very easy to seduce her - she doesn't have much of a choice or taste in men anyways - you are just a cardboard character in her script and your qualities don't matter much to her. The seduction of a normal woman is actually more difficult.

Neither is manipulation of an HPD difficult - if you know her tricks, and you are willing to manipulate, you can do it too. Her manipulations are not very elaborate and complex - they are easy once you know it. And if you know your boundaries, you can easily spot them, call her for them and apply your own ones on her too.

However, once the seduction is over, if you need a "real" relationship, that's when the problem arises, because an unaware HPD is simply not capable of carrying forward an adult relationship with the kind of expectations that a normal person would have of her. Neither can a normal person continuously meet the expectations of an HPD.

For a psychopath - HPD relationship, i am assuming that some of the issues I describe above may seem irrelevant, but these seem to be the problem with a normal-HPD relationship, as I have understood from this forum, my own over 2-year relationship and elsewhere.

while the HPD is busy retaining covert control via deceit, manipulation, lies, tantrums and all other forms of acting-out, the normal partner is trying to give up control and trying to create an atmosphere of collaboration. This conflict brings the relatonship down.

I could not agree more - thank you new to HPD for your very insightful postings. I seem to be in a minority here in that it was my husband who has the PD. When we first met, we were both going through divorces from our previous partners - I had no children with my first husband, but he did. The constant arguments he was having with his ex-wife masked his histrionic ways for the first 18 months or so and then I got pregnant and our fate was sealed...

When he was young and in his 20's and early 30's it was not easy to detect his disorder - he was always that guy who was the life and soul of the party - generous with his time and money, gregarious - good company and fun to be with. Only when you get close, and then are exposed to the infantile temper tantrums when things are not going his way, the pathalogical lying about just about everything and the exhaustion you feel trying to cope with all of this, is when you first start to think - 'is it me'?

Its taken a long time and a lot of soul searching and one final terrible betrayal of my trust and support to realise that life however hard will be a lot better without him.

The constant arguments he was having with his ex-wife masked his histrionic ways for the first 18 months or so and then I got pregnant and our fate was sealed...

sadmadandhurt - this is called "triangulation". An HPD relationship is unstable - its like a table on 2 legs and so a 3rd person is used to stabilize it - provide the much needed validation to the HPD and a shoulder to cry on, while he acted out with is ex-wife.

You believed that he was acting out ONLY with his ex-wife because he made you believe that she was the tormentor, abuser, etc. You thought it will not happen with you, because he made you feel as if you are the ONE for him.

What you didn't realize is that once that "leg" is cut away the table would become unstable again and now you will have to face the acting-out and the abuse. Soon the need for "triangulation" will mean that he will bring in another "leg" into your relationship and make that new woman believe that you are the tormentor and abuser.

Its a cycle -

The only way you could have played this "game" in the long-run is if YOU actively found a new "leg" for the relationship and manipulated that new "leg" to be the tormentor. I am not suggesting you needed to have an affair - the new leg could have been the world in general. So both of you could act-out against the world, allowing him to dissociate his "bad" feelings to the outside world, while both of you carried on with the fantasy of being "good".

The only problem is that with time you would have mirrored him so much - that you would have got "fleas" from him and adopted some disordered traits.

The other way would have been to follow the "male" version of TK's guide - which I have not figured out

newtohpd - your numbered 1-7 list of relationship issues/phases/problems above is excellent.

My ex is back in my life this week, collecting her things etc. Although I feel sad about what appeared to be but wasn't (the relationship) it is posts like yours that have allowed me to feel detached and not to try an fix the unfixable.

Sadmadandhurt - like you, i seem to be in the minority group here as my male partner is an HPD, although it is only recently that I actually realised. Ive been with him (on and off) for four years and although I always knew he was 'off kilter' I had no idea just how off kilter til recently. Tonight, reading through some the forums here has blown me away...until recently I believed he was merely a compulsive liar and a cheater but I have now done some fairly extensive research on HPD and he fits the bill so perfectly. Ironically, our relationship has lasted so long because I inadvertantly followed those posted 'rules for having a relationship'. Looking back, I have been so niave. I would love to hear from more people dealing with/or who have dealt with a male HPD. My story is so long and complicated that I just wouldnt know where to start and my HDP is 47 years old so has had years of experience in playing his games. I recently found out that he actually had 3 other women while engaged to me (we were engaged within 3 months of meeting - i really thought 'this is the one'-what a fool i was). I have found female intimate things at his place (i kicked him out of mine three years ago) and he either hides the items and then blatantly denies their existence, gets angry and acts like a martyre, or offers me pathetic justifications that make no logical sense at all. Is it common for HDP's to use opposite sex for money and things? I found out mine had one of these women paying his bills, one buying him expensive gifts like a laptop, TV etc and another he left with a large debt. He has twisted the tales he tells about his past relationships and tells that they (he was married 3 times) cheated and slept around on him when I have now found out it was the other way around. He sulks when he doesnt get his way, acts like a child and watches (and laughs like a child) at movies like Tinkerbell! What the??? However, he can also act so loving and go to extremes to make me believe that I am his one and only. He is over theatrical, over embelishes and these days I never know what stories are true and what is not. I was originally snooping because i was determined to have revenge but now I'm just flabbergasted at the whole thing and feel so stupid for not realising his problem was so much more serious than i ever thought. Knowing what i know now, he probably cant let me go because I wont committ to him, wont tell him I love him...OMG I feel so stupid.